SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Sox considering keeping Iglesias up as UTL player
|
Post by awall on Jun 3, 2013 9:54:53 GMT -5
They will move Drew in a heartbeat if they get the right offer.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jun 3, 2013 10:00:15 GMT -5
I am one of the early adapters who thought, after seeing him a few times live, Igelsias will hit enough at the MLB level to be a starter. I envisioned this as .260/.330/.400. I think he can still do that, albeit with a little more pop - he looks like a decent doubles hitter with a few occasional HRs. I think he'll also bunt for base hits 10-15 times a year to pad the average.
Love what we're seeing today, and while the BBIP is absurd, I love the aggressive swing. And his most recent walk (against Cleveland) was a great at bat.
|
|
|
Post by soxcentral on Jun 3, 2013 10:56:43 GMT -5
There is no way that Iglesias displaces Middlebrooks at third and he won't displace Drew at SS either. He's making the most of his AB's he's pumped up , happy and very focused. Can he maintain that level of focus? Probably not. If I'm Ben C. and Farrell , I keep trying to maximize his defense while keeping his bat healthy. Once Middlebrooks comes back you start shopping Iggy. Listen I love Iggy, I like watching the cool plays, but his value may never be higher. Everyone always complains that this org. waits till a player bottoms out to trade him, well this is the opportunity to trade from strength. You have a player with flashy numbers and flashy skills that you assume is a lot of smoke and mirrors. Take advantage of some other teams desperation. Try and get a top tier prospect for him... There may only be this chance to maximize this asset. If you can't get some team to overspend on Iggy , then DFA Ciriaco (maybe do that anyway... he sucks)and make iggy your utility guy/defensive replacement/pinch runner. He could be a very useful piece in that role and it seems he'd be happy with it. You have Bogaerts starting to tear up AA , he'll have a 1.000 OPS by mid July. Hand him the starting SS job next season. No doubt his value will never appear higher than now between the hot bat and the consistent glove, but you may be overstating the 'sell high' outlook. If we end up with a cost-controlled Gold Glove shortstop who can hit at least league average that is a very valuable asset who potentially help with payroll flexibility for many years out.. Iglesias does appear to have improved with the bat this year. Obviously there will be regression, but as a rookie he already appears to be shedding the 'offensive black hole' image enough to be a keeper in my eyes. On a side note, I completely dismiss the either/or approach to Iglesias and Bogaerts moving forward. Yes, Xander's value is highest at SS in isolation, but his bat at 3B or RF with Iglesias hitting at league average with superior D at SS can fill 2 major positions for a long time.
|
|
|
Post by hammerhead on Jun 3, 2013 11:39:04 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you Soxcentral, but there appears to be too many bodies for too few positions.
Meaning: Xander SS/ WMB 3B is greater (offensively) then Iggy SS/ Xander 3B
Now I suppose you could move Xander to the outfield, but you have Victorino signed for 3 years at 36million in RF and now you have Nava looking like he could be a diamond in the rough in LF. You also have JBJ forcing his way into the equation (assuming Ells is gone after this season). You also have Gomes for another year, Carp cost controlled and Brentz should be ready by 2014.
You theoretically could move WMB to first, but by late 2014 you'll have Cecchini pushing the issue in AAA. Not even taking into account the almost definite qualifying offer that Napoli will get.
When all that logjam occurs you may have lost any peak value on Iglesias. Wouldn't it make sense to try and get a high end arm here?
I know everyone will say "that's a good problem to have, it's far enough away that you don't need to worry about it till the time comes" But by then Iggy could be hitting 220/280/300
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Jun 3, 2013 11:48:41 GMT -5
I think it comes down to what the Sox FO think Iggy will end hitting?
In addition, while his value high right now, it may not be THAT much higher. I am sure all the other teams that might be coveting him are well aware of his BABIP.
|
|
|
Post by soxcentral on Jun 3, 2013 12:18:07 GMT -5
Hammerhead, the one place where I think we do disagree is Middlebrooks. I am with you on everything else that you mention but removing WMB almost solves the scenario in and of itself. His skill set of high power/low OBP at 3B or even 1B to me is much, much easier to fill through trades or free agency than finding an elite defensive SS with a passable bat. Just look at the 3B we have found over the last 10 years (Mueller, Lowell, Beltre) vs the SS (Renteria, Lugo, Aviles, Reese, and others) to see where my feelings on this are coming from.
|
|
|
Post by widewordofsport on Jun 3, 2013 13:11:00 GMT -5
Trading Iggy now may be selling high, but I think he has more value to the Red Sox than whatever they'd get in return. I doubt other GMs are leaving bags of top prospects at the Red Sox door. More likely, they'll want Iggy + Barnes or Ranaudo for someone, and the Red Sox should never pay someone to take Iggy off their hands, for a mediocre OF approaching free agency (which is what the trade would probably be).
As far as the "too many bodies" argument... how about we have 5 healthy guys who can play 2nd/ss/3rd at the major league level, and ready to be on the active roster, before we start talking like that. They can find room.
|
|
|
Post by widewordofsport on Jun 3, 2013 13:11:55 GMT -5
I do hope Middlebrooks gets a week of rehab though, for his bat as much as anything.
|
|
|
Post by feez732 on Jun 3, 2013 13:13:33 GMT -5
A few note about 2013 Jose Iglesias: - Looking at his combined AAA/MLB numbers this year, He's only two extra base hits (12) from surpassing his combined AAA/MLB total from last year (14), and he's done it in only 190 plate appearances. He passed his combined from 2011 two XBH ago.
- Again with combine numbers, he has more home runs this year (5) than in the rest of his U.S. professional career combined (3 in around 1231 PA).
- His combined line between AAA and MLB this year is .273/.316/.401. That comes with a 14.7 K%, 5.3 BB% and a .298 babip.
Yes the babip in the majors this year is absurd, but there really is a lot to like about what he's done so far this year. Also, to add to what soxcentral said, I think there's a lot of value in having two starters on the team capable of playing shortstop. If Bogaerts ends up moving over to third base, he could still slide over if Iglesias ends up injured for a significant period of time (for the first few years anyways). If you trade Iglesias and Bogaerts gets injured though, then you're probably giving significant time to someone worse than Iglesias. Even more, if there really is still a front office left that's stupid enough to ignore the small sample size and babip when trading for him, then they're going to ignore the same points when looking at his AAA line this year (which only looks bad because of a .204 babip).
|
|
|
Post by hammerhead on Jun 3, 2013 14:19:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade Iggy for an OF (unless it was Stanton or George springer or someone) let alone a mediocre one approaching FA. That wasn't what I said, I said try and get a high-upside pitching prospect. Look at the Bauer deal for instance.
I'm also not ready to give up on Middlebrooks. I think he plays pretty good Defense at 3rd and I think he can be and is slightly better at getting on-base then he's been.
I would shop Iggy with an shrewd eye.... I'm definitely not talking about giving him away, I just think he could be an attractive piece in the right situation.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,988
|
Post by jimoh on Jun 3, 2013 14:30:51 GMT -5
Can Brandon Snyder play the outfield? He is quietly having quite the year at AAA playing third. Snyder was drafted as a teenage C, tore a labrum, moved to 1b his 3rd year, and before this year played 74 games at 3b, 8 in LF, 7 in RF. Caught one inning for the Rangers last year, along with a few games at 1b, 3b, rf, lf. www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?P=brandon-snyder"Plays both infield and outfield corner positions" soxprospects brief writeup "he may have found his long-term home as a right-handed bench bat who can cover both infield and outfield corners" www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2397
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Jun 3, 2013 14:33:34 GMT -5
mainesox, the problem with putting him in the outfield is that the goal at the major league level is not to get Iglesias as many at-bats as possible. It's to use him in a way that puts the team in the best position to win. His best tools are his hands and range (aided by great instincts, rather than just pure quickness), not speed in the fast runner sense, so I don't think he'd even necessarily be a good outfield defender. His tools translate to him being otherworldly in the infield, and THAT is where his value comes from. Moving a guy to the OF to get him at-bats would be something you do with a player like Bogaerts in this kind of situation, where you want his bat in the lineup. With Holt starting to turn it around in AAA finally, there's still depth in Pawtucket if something happens to Iglesias, and they could probably use Ciriaco's 40-man spot to add an outfielder given how thin they are there (although Pawtucket is kind of thin there as well with Bermudez hitting the DL and Maier only easing back in to playing again). Can Brandon Snyder play the outfield? Her is quietly having quite the year at AAA playing third. Technically yes, but he's only played about 50 or so innings in his professional career in the OF, all them in 2012 between Texas and their AAA team. It's hard to see him coming up barring an injury to Napoli or Gomes (or a Carp trade), and his glove only really plays well as a 1B, with the ability to backup the other corners. Edit: straight out of his Twitter bio: "Trying to play every position with the Red Sox organization," so the effort is there at least!
|
|
|
Post by rangoon82 on Jun 3, 2013 14:41:55 GMT -5
Say Iglesias is given the job and Drew is moved. I wonder if his play will decline without the incentive of only having a big league job if he proved it. It may not be analogous but Middlebrooks was kinda in the same position this year and so far couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. Iglesias does seem to play hard only when he wants to.
|
|
|
Post by widewordofsport on Jun 3, 2013 15:31:04 GMT -5
I don't know why anyone has to move. Since returning, Drew has stayed healthy, but you can't imagine Iggy could at this point.
This is a first-place team. And even though I actually thought they'd be contending, not many people did. I'm not sure you mess with that and start subtracting (unless Iggy is a distraction/problem). There's a lot of IF depth and except for Snyder, most of it is on the 40 man. Unless some GM really wants to overpay for Drew or Iggy, I don't trade either, unless it's with Workman to get a really good prospect.
Boston has a really good system right now, the only trades I'd make now are to make it a little top heavier with elite talent, and even then I can't see those players being available. And really Cecchini himself is threatening to do that.
|
|
|
Post by mredsox89 on Jun 3, 2013 18:24:45 GMT -5
The question was always could Iggy hit .225, walk a bit, and use his defense to hold his job. He obviously didn't translate into a .300 hitter overnight, but I think we are at least close to having our answer of if he can at worst push the Mendoza line over a stretch of time. There's also no reason not to expect him to continue to improve with the bat between the combination of MLB AB's + help from guys on the MLB roster
|
|
|
Post by burythehammer on Jun 3, 2013 18:51:20 GMT -5
Come on. I can tolerate 3B or even 2B but putting him in the outfield is the equivalent using your Lamborghini to carpool your kids to and from school. Why? If he can do it well (and I think he can) and it gets him more ABs (and gives the Sox more depth) I don't see any reason not to do it. Iglesias in LF in Fenway. A Monet hanging above my toilet.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 18:59:17 GMT -5
Considering that Iglesias is literally hitting double what Drew is, why can't we just trade Drew? He can be traded June 16 without his consent. I wouldn't ask for anything significant in return. A triple-A reliever with a high strike-out rate sounds good.
|
|
|
Post by elguapo on Jun 3, 2013 20:50:47 GMT -5
Considering that Iglesias is literally hitting double what Drew is, why can't we just trade Drew? He can be traded June 16 without his consent. I wouldn't ask for anything significant in return. The Sox have an opportunity to win this year. Why trade away a useful player for peanuts? If they got a good return, it might make sense: add assets and address another area of need.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jun 3, 2013 21:34:54 GMT -5
Considering that Iglesias is literally hitting double what Drew is, why can't we just trade Drew? He can be traded June 16 without his consent. I wouldn't ask for anything significant in return. A triple-A reliever with a high strike-out rate sounds good. Do you really think Iglesias is going to be a better hitter than Drew over the rest of the season? If so, you're just about the only one. The question for the rest of us is how much better a fielder Iglesias needs to be to make him a better player overall. Considering how great Drew has been defensively so far, I'm hesitant to conclude that Iglesias is the better player based on 50-odd PAs. Also, Iglesias has missed significant time with injury every season he's played so far, and they've been the sort of non-traumatic soft tissue injuries that might indicate injury-proneness (plus, he's a skinny guy who goes all-out defensively). Since Ciriaco is likely to be DFAed once Middlebrooks gets healthy, trading Drew means that the backup SS options would be Holt (who can't really field the position) and Dent (who can't hit). I'm not giving away key depth, and certainly not for a AAA reliever.
|
|
|
Post by welovewally on Jun 4, 2013 9:15:32 GMT -5
Keep Iglesias as the Utility Player
Waive Ciriaco
Xander to AAA
Marrero to AA
That's what I think should happen
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 4, 2013 12:05:54 GMT -5
Considering that Iglesias is literally hitting double what Drew is, why can't we just trade Drew? He can be traded June 16 without his consent. I wouldn't ask for anything significant in return. A triple-A reliever with a high strike-out rate sounds good. I'll bet you the right to pick the other person's board avatar that Drew has a better OPS (or pick your preferred offensive stat) from now until the end of the season than Iglesias.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 4, 2013 13:15:11 GMT -5
Right on cue, Will Middlebrooks assigned to a rehab assignment in Pawtucket, starting tonight. It's scheduled to run through Friday. Looks like we'll get our answer this weekend.
|
|
|
Post by hammerhead on Jun 4, 2013 13:16:51 GMT -5
I just read Peter Gammons saying that positional flexibility is the hot commodity. Not only do the Sox think Iglesias can stick as a utility guy, but they plan to move Xander around the infield for the last two months of the season...
I don't mind this with Iggy because he has the hands and defense to adapt, but to me it seems like a craptastic idea to mess with Xander. The guy is going to be a fixture in the line-up one day, he needs reps at SS so he'll stick. To make him learn a new position as an experiment seems very strange. Unless they think he's going to have to move off SS sooner then later.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jun 5, 2013 13:49:33 GMT -5
Alex Speier ?@alexspeier 2m Farrell says on @weei that if Iglesias remains in the big leagues, he needs to play at least 2 days a week.
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 5, 2013 14:16:56 GMT -5
Positional flexibility has always been an under rated attribute. It is expensive to have a lot of injury back up and it sometimes retards player development as we have to slot them in AAA longer than we want for that reason alone ( Lavarnway is an example of this IMO ). And there is an inevitable drop off long term. Guys like Youk were extremely valuable. There is no reason why Bogaerts in particular can't benefit from learning 3rd. Especially if Iglesias actually sticks at SS and we continue to have problems with Middlebrook's performance.
|
|
|