ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 26, 2018 13:30:29 GMT -5
I want nothing to do with Ryan Braun. After the whole steroid saga where he called out the specimen collector and Braun acted like he was wronged only to test positive the next year anyway, I don't think I can bring myself to root for that guy. From a baseball standpoint too I don't see a match, I'd rather keep Hanley for this season and get rid of his contract in the offseason than swap the contract for Braun's longer term deal. I am mostly bullish on Porcello this upcoming season as well and don't see how swapping Porcello for Braun helps this team. With the injury question marks of Price and E-Rod I think Porcello and his durability is very helpful to this pitching staff.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 13:33:36 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 26, 2018 13:33:36 GMT -5
What is more riskier for the Sox?
3 or 4 years for Braun (with the Brewers paying a huge amount of year 4)
Or
6 years of J.D. Martinez
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 26, 2018 13:37:14 GMT -5
I don't think it takes 6 years for Martinez like you do but without opening that can of worms again. I would rather have Martinez for 6 years than Braun for 3 or 4 no matter what the Brewers paid. Martinez is an elite to near elite hitter that would help the Red Sox more than Braun who I think is definitely on a decline and a possible steep decline.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 26, 2018 13:39:52 GMT -5
Braun would almost certainly require a team to pick up his option (2021 season) to waive his 10/5 rights. I would have the Brewers pay for a large portion of that, if that was the case (at least 10-12 million of it). Then at that point you're cutting pretty significantly into the Brewers incentive to make a deal. They downgrade a team they just paid a lot of money to upgrade in the short term, with no immediate cost savings and minimal future cost savings.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 13:40:09 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 26, 2018 13:40:09 GMT -5
Martinez is better, but is he 6-8 million a year better?
Is he so much better that he hinders future extensions?
Braun wouldn't be hindering any extensions really. There is a bunch of money coming off the books at the end of 2019, regardless if you took on Braun's last 3 years of his deal.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 13:42:56 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 26, 2018 13:42:56 GMT -5
I would have the Brewers pay for a large portion of that, if that was the case (at least 10-12 million of it). Then at that point you're cutting pretty significantly into the Brewers incentive to make a deal. They downgrade a team they just paid a lot of money to upgrade in the short term, with no immediate cost savings and minimal future cost savings. I wouldn't say that getting rid of 34 million (in years 2019 and 2020) is minimal James. That's a significant portion of money.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 26, 2018 13:43:09 GMT -5
Like I said Braun is somebody I have no interest in rooting for as from what I've heard about him he is not a very good person. I would rather have Martinez and why would the Brewers pay a significant amount of his contract down to take back Hanley? What does Hanley do for them?
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 13:46:09 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 26, 2018 13:46:09 GMT -5
Like I said Braun is somebody I have no interest in rooting for as from what I've heard about him he is not a very good person. I would rather have Martinez and why would the Brewers pay a significant amount of his contract down to take back Hanley? What does Hanley do for them? Clears their payroll in future years. That's what Hanley does for them. It also gives them a pretty decent pinch hitter, a backup first baseman, and a DH when they play the AL.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 26, 2018 13:47:44 GMT -5
Martinez is better, but is he 6-8 million a year better? Is he so much better that he hinders future extensions? Braun wouldn't be hindering any extensions really. There is a bunch of money coming off the books at the end of 2019, regardless if you took on Braun's last 3 years of his deal. Martinez is at least $100 million better.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 13:56:26 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 26, 2018 13:56:26 GMT -5
Martinez is better, but is he 6-8 million a year better? Is he so much better that he hinders future extensions? Braun wouldn't be hindering any extensions really. There is a bunch of money coming off the books at the end of 2019, regardless if you took on Braun's last 3 years of his deal. Martinez is at least $100 million better. Ouch, not sure about that. Maybe 80 million better? If the Sox were looking for alternatives to J.D. Martinez, Braun is really the only guy JimEd. I think he can still be a productive hitter the next 2-3 years.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 14:00:41 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Jan 26, 2018 14:00:41 GMT -5
Martinez is better, but is he 6-8 million a year better? Is he so much better that he hinders future extensions? Braun wouldn't be hindering any extensions really. There is a bunch of money coming off the books at the end of 2019, regardless if you took on Braun's last 3 years of his deal. Martinez is at least $100 million better. I think this is right. It seems far more likely that Martinez can have more peak years than Braun. It also seems likely his decline will be less precipitous. And Braun hardly seems like the kinda guy you want around the young players. Plus, I’d rather pay more for a FA than give anything for Braun (even in the unlikely case the Brewers eat contract— which would mean steeper propect price). So, yeah, $100 million in FA contract? Affirm.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 26, 2018 14:09:12 GMT -5
Martinez is at least $100 million better. Ouch, not sure about that. Maybe 80 million better? If the Sox were looking for alternatives to J.D. Martinez, Braun is really the only guy JimEd. I think he can still be a productive hitter the next 2-3 years. Unless he's declining rapidly at age 34 with last year being the first year of decline. Which wouldn't surprise me as a PED abuser.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 14:11:52 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 26, 2018 14:11:52 GMT -5
I just wanted to get perspectives on the possible idea.
Braun might be the most hated player in baseball by the fans. Even more so then Chapman the psychopath, Jose Reyes, or Sano which is surprising to me.
I mean, haven't we all blamed something on someone else for our mistakes?
At least he apologized for it after. I don't know, he just cheated and tried to cover it up. I can understand that.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 14:14:33 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 26, 2018 14:14:33 GMT -5
Ouch, not sure about that. Maybe 80 million better? If the Sox were looking for alternatives to J.D. Martinez, Braun is really the only guy JimEd. I think he can still be a productive hitter the next 2-3 years. Unless he's declining rapidly at age 34 with last year being the first year of decline. Which wouldn't surprise me as a PED abuser. Couldn't we say the same about Ortiz if we are being honest though? Accusing his decline on PED use instead of actual decline? I think he could decline and still be a elite hitter, not at the level of Ortiz of course but still elite. Like if he hit 120 or higher in terms of OPS+ the next two years, that wouldn't be horrible.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 15:01:42 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 26, 2018 15:01:42 GMT -5
Unless he's declining rapidly at age 34 with last year being the first year of decline. Which wouldn't surprise me as a PED abuser. Couldn't we say the same about Ortiz if we are being honest though? Accusing his decline on PED use instead of actual decline? I think he could decline and still be a elite hitter, not at the level of Ortiz of course but still elite. Like if he hit 120 or higher in terms of OPS+ the next two years, that wouldn't be horrible. You mean if he’s quite a bit better than last year for the next 3 or 4 years. There’s really no point in comparing anyone to Papi, especially Ryan Braun. The point is we want a lot more than a not horrible DH, especially if we’re giving up anything of value.
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Ryan Braun
Jan 26, 2018 15:28:25 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 26, 2018 15:28:25 GMT -5
Couldn't we say the same about Ortiz if we are being honest though? Accusing his decline on PED use instead of actual decline? I think he could decline and still be a elite hitter, not at the level of Ortiz of course but still elite. Like if he hit 120 or higher in terms of OPS+ the next two years, that wouldn't be horrible. The point is we want a lot more than a not horrible DH, especially if we’re giving up anything of value. You're probably not giving up much to get Braun though. Hanley and two mid level prospects or one mid level prospect maybe? Braun could probably still be the 3rd best hitter on the team the next 2 years.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 26, 2018 15:34:50 GMT -5
The point is we want a lot more than a not horrible DH, especially if we’re giving up anything of value. You're probably not giving up much to get Braun though. Hanley and two mid level prospects or one mid level prospect maybe? Braun could probably still be the 3rd best hitter on the team the next 2 years. I'm not even sure Braun would be the 3rd best hitter on the team this year though. Mookie is definitely better, Benintendi and Devers could very well be better and I could also see Xander being better. Addition: If it costs the Sox any sort of prospect to get Braun then I really wouldn't want him. I don't want DD trading any prospects this offseason as the farm system needs all the help it can get right now to hopefully become a healthy thriving system.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 3, 2018 13:47:23 GMT -5
JDM should still be the main target, but I agree that Braun seems to be the best backup plan.
The Brewers would likely want short term $ savings in order to sign one of the top FA pitchers and they could use infield depth/upside.
If the Brewers current plan is to play Braun at 1B that would either require he be a weekend platoon partner or that Thames guess to the bench. Either way it's not ideal and it's a poor use of resources. For this reason Hanley would make sense as the downgrade is nearly insignificant - as long as they get cost savings as well.
- Brewers get Hanley + 16mil + Marco Hernandez - Red Sox get Braun + 6mil (more if the option year must be guaranteed)
This trade assumes that Hanley is worth 6mil for 1 year (option not an issue due to the platoon) while Braun is worth his current contract. The 6mil would be for Hernandez and would give the Red Sox luxury tax help over the next 3 years while also having $ this year to get Nunez or Walker on a 1 year deal.
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Post by manfred on Feb 3, 2018 14:30:01 GMT -5
JDM should still be the main target, but I agree that Braun seems to be the best backup plan. The Brewers would likely want short term $ savings in order to sign one of the top FA pitchers and they could use infield depth/upside. If the Brewers current plan is to play Braun at 1B that would either require he be a weekend platoon partner or that Thames guess to the bench. Either way it's not ideal and it's a poor use of resources. For this reason Hanley would make sense as the downgrade is nearly insignificant - as long as they get cost savings as well. - Brewers get Hanley + 16mil + Marco Hernandez - Red Sox get Braun + 6mil (more if the option year must be guaranteed) This trade assumes that Hanley is worth 6mil for 1 year (option not an issue due to the platoon) while Braun is worth his current contract. The 6mil would be for Hernandez and would give the Red Sox luxury tax help over the next 3 years while also having $ this year to get Nunez or Walker on a 1 year deal. Why would the Brewers do this? Hanley is of no use to them with Thames at 1B, while Braun is still playing for them. If they want to move Braun for money, they can probably dump him without getting a bad contract in return. If they want to get value (and eat money) they can do better than Marco Hernandez. The Brewers spent a lot of dough on Cain, and they’ve been in on top line starters. Why trade a former all-star for a guy who is still expensive and even less useful to them?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 3, 2018 15:40:30 GMT -5
JDM should still be the main target, but I agree that Braun seems to be the best backup plan. The Brewers would likely want short term $ savings in order to sign one of the top FA pitchers and they could use infield depth/upside. If the Brewers current plan is to play Braun at 1B that would either require he be a weekend platoon partner or that Thames guess to the bench. Either way it's not ideal and it's a poor use of resources. For this reason Hanley would make sense as the downgrade is nearly insignificant - as long as they get cost savings as well. - Brewers get Hanley + 16mil + Marco Hernandez - Red Sox get Braun + 6mil (more if the option year must be guaranteed) This trade assumes that Hanley is worth 6mil for 1 year (option not an issue due to the platoon) while Braun is worth his current contract. The 6mil would be for Hernandez and would give the Red Sox luxury tax help over the next 3 years while also having $ this year to get Nunez or Walker on a 1 year deal. Why would the Brewers do this? Hanley is of no use to them with Thames at 1B, while Braun is still playing for them. If they want to move Braun for money, they can probably dump him without getting a bad contract in return. If they want to get value (and eat money) they can do better than Marco Hernandez. The Brewers spent a lot of dough on Cain, and they’ve been in on top line starters. Why trade a former all-star for a guy who is still expensive and even less useful to them? Hanley would fill the same week-side platoon and PH role that Braun currently fills but at a much lower cost. This assumes the Brewers can use that money in pursuit of the high end starter they have been seeking in free agency. The dollars may need work depending on the valuation of Braun, but that will be different for everyone. It fills needs for each team while not doing much to hurt either team.
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Post by manfred on Feb 3, 2018 15:50:03 GMT -5
Why would the Brewers do this? Hanley is of no use to them with Thames at 1B, while Braun is still playing for them. If they want to move Braun for money, they can probably dump him without getting a bad contract in return. If they want to get value (and eat money) they can do better than Marco Hernandez. The Brewers spent a lot of dough on Cain, and they’ve been in on top line starters. Why trade a former all-star for a guy who is still expensive and even less useful to them? Hanley would fill the same week-side platoon and PH role that Braun currently fills but at a much lower cost. This assumes the Brewers can use that money in pursuit of the high end starter they have been seeking in free agency. The dollars may need work depending on the valuation of Braun, but that will be different for everyone. It fills needs for each team while not doing much to hurt either team. I guess I see it as hurting the Brewers. At this stage, both guys seem diminished, but Braun is far likelier to bounce back. He had a mediocre year last year, but the two previous seasons were good. Hanley bookends an excellent season with two poor seasons. He is a poor first baseman who also becomes a health risk if he plays the field. Again, even if the Brewers are looking to dump Braun, it seems like they could have a more productive return. If people object to NBA style roster management, taking on a guy with negative WAR to save money while trying compete seems like the very thing people would object to. The Brewers seem open to getting a pitcher without cost cutting, anyway.
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