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2013 Red Sox Post-Draft Discussion (Signings, etc.)
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jun 9, 2013 23:47:01 GMT -5
I don't agree, you do whatever it takes to sign Denney as long as what he's asking for is reasonable for a prospect of his stature. BA ranked him as the 25th best prospect in this year's draft. I predicted he'd sign for $1.3M, but I also could see his signing bonus reaching $1.8M, and I'd still be more than fine with that as long as he signs because he was a steal in the 3rd round.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 9, 2013 23:57:53 GMT -5
And we get the slot money back next year also don't we? It is win, win, win. Protected pick. Slot money back next year. Opportunity to do other deals and we have lots of other good overslot opportunities. Please correct me if I'm wrong. To me, Denney might moan and complain and posture but if he is wise I think he takes the $1.3 mil. Sometimes kids play the game and it doesn't work out the way they want. He already gambled and lost in terms of being a round 1 or 2 pick. He should consolidate and take the money. He could get zippo next year or at least a lot less. $1.3 mil is life changing money in itself. A chance to make $100,000 per year for life on the stock market for example for doing nothing. His parents should advise him to take the cash. To me, I hear what people are saying about potentially losing a premium prospect but we have a number of lower round picks who seem to have excellent pedigrees also. And a lot of incentive to sign. Sheffield just got hurt right. He is potentially worthless to a college team for up to 2 years. With much greater risk of a poor rehab. If offered $500,000 he should take that. And he is potentially as good as Stankiewicz as I understand it. We have a decent opportunity to sign Ball, Stank, Denney, Smith, Littell, Sheffield, Thaiss and Longhi IMO. A real good chance of that but it means going a little underslot with Ball and Stankiwicz while signing the round 5-10 guys really cheap ( or not ). If we get Asuaje, Monge and Williams for $100,000 each fine but it will not be that much of a priority if we don't. I think high school kids will quickly determine that they are not in the driver's seat as much as they think. I don't think you understand how hard it is to find a prospect who has a good chance to stick behind the plate and provide the offensive upside that Denney could offer. Additionally the value of the pick at the end of the 3rd round ( roughly 500,000) vs. the 7th pick in the 3rd round (670,000) is both a loss of budget in actual dollars and a loss of value in terms of the time value of money. Signing Denney a 1st round caliber catcher in the 3rd is a coup for a MLB team and isn't worth messing around with. I agree on the one point of a pick at the end of round 3 not being worth the same as a #7 pick in round 3. Absolutely. At the same time no other team drafted Denney in rounds 1 or 2. Just because he is asking for $2 mil doesn't mean he's worth it. If he were, another team would have drafted him in the 1st or 2nd round. It would be great to sign him and I hope we do and maybe we can still do that without sacrificing several other players in the process. To me it's best to sign the best 5-6 players and not worry as much about the rest but it looks like we might have 7-8 player options who are not C level prospects. But standing firm with one protected pick in order to sign 6-7 more is maybe just as good both short term and long term. If future prospects know we are willing to pull the trigger they will not call our bluff over and over forever. They may not want to be picked by the Redsox in the future but we would achieve greater results if we did show a willingness to let them go if necessary. It's classic Scott Borass. And there is a reason why players select him. He gets results. I love a lot of things the Redsox are doing. Going with high upside guys. Drafting injured guys who have potential but may be more inclined to sign for less money. Offering some guys peanuts but most others real decent offers. Drafting signable guys in general with their top picks and trying to free up cash for overslot guys after the 10th round. Focusing on the best players available, regardless of imminent need and making top starting pitching talent a big priority. They are doing a whole lot of things right.
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Post by foleyli on Jun 9, 2013 23:58:41 GMT -5
thelavarnwayguy no disrespect but Denney was ranked higher than Boldt was and significantly higher than Sheffield was, lets pretend that Boldt costs 2 million to sign (hes asking 2.5), Sheffield costs 800k to sign, and Denney costs 1.6 million to sign. To sign Boldt, we would have to free up 1.9 million dollars, Boldt will not sign unless something absolutely miraculous happens (also he was not ranked as highly as Denney is). To sign Sheffield, it will require the Sox to free up 700k, again, he is not considered close to as good a prospect as Denney. To sign Denney, we must free up less than 1 million dollars. Denney was ranked 25th (1st rounder) Boldt was ranked in the 30s (34?): 1st/2nd rounder, Sheffield was ranked 88th (3rd rounder). The sox would save cap space to sign Denney as opposed to (according to pros, worse prospect) Boldt; They would only lose about 300k to sign a prospect that is considered 3 rounds better than Sheffield. Also, I honestly have no clue what you mean by getting the slot money back next year, we get an allotment for each pick, if he doesnt sign, we will get a higher cap but we will also lose a first round talent. Denney is, by all accounts, a first round talent, we would receive a pick at the end of the third round, that trade off is not a 'win' for the Sox. Lastly, someone said that it would be losing Denney (a very good prospect) for a few 'C' prospects and I completely agree with that (I also understand that Sox will sign a few 'C' prospects in addition to Denney (and maybe even Sheffield)). Why would the Sox just waste this cap room? they will sign him and it will be the right choice. taftreign didnt see your post so sorry for repeating some stuff but I agree with you
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 10, 2013 0:15:22 GMT -5
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Post by foleyli on Jun 10, 2013 0:24:03 GMT -5
I like it, @lavarnwayguy I would have thought you of all people would have loved the sox drafting a very good offensive catcher with questionable defense... (joke but I am too tired to figure out how to italicize)
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 10, 2013 0:24:57 GMT -5
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 10, 2013 0:29:20 GMT -5
I like it, @lavarnwayguy I would have thought you of all people would have loved the sox drafting a very good offensive catcher with questionable defense... (joke but I am too tired to figure out how to italicize) At least you are telling a joke! I'm a Pinata here sometimes! Heh, I'm all for signing Denney! He looks like a great pick up. From watching the video he doesn't look that bad defensively though does he? His arm looks pretty good to me and his pop time isn't bad. I think I should shut up now though. I've made my points!
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 10, 2013 0:36:48 GMT -5
thelavarnwayguy no disrespect but Denney was ranked higher than Boldt was and significantly higher than Sheffield was, lets pretend that Boldt costs 2 million to sign (hes asking 2.5), Sheffield costs 800k to sign, and Denney costs 1.6 million to sign. To sign Boldt, we would have to free up 1.9 million dollars, Boldt will not sign unless something absolutely miraculous happens (also he was not ranked as highly as Denney is). To sign Sheffield, it will require the Sox to free up 700k, again, he is not considered close to as good a prospect as Denney. To sign Denney, we must free up less than 1 million dollars. Denney was ranked 25th (1st rounder) Boldt was ranked in the 30s (34?): 1st/2nd rounder, Sheffield was ranked 88th (3rd rounder). The sox would save cap space to sign Denney as opposed to (according to pros, worse prospect) Boldt; They would only lose about 300k to sign a prospect that is considered 3 rounds better than Sheffield. Also, I honestly have no clue what you mean by getting the slot money back next year, we get an allotment for each pick, if he doesnt sign, we will get a higher cap but we will also lose a first round talent. Denney is, by all accounts, a first round talent, we would receive a pick at the end of the third round, that trade off is not a 'win' for the Sox. Lastly, someone said that it would be losing Denney (a very good prospect) for a few 'C' prospects and I completely agree with that (I also understand that Sox will sign a few 'C' prospects in addition to Denney (and maybe even Sheffield)). Why would the Sox just waste this cap room? they will sign him and it will be the right choice. taftreign didnt see your post so sorry for repeating some stuff but I agree with you I don't see us making a serious attempt to sign Boldt under any scenario. Certainly not at the cost of Denney. To me, Sheffield is not a C level prospect. And we might hit on some of these lower level guys. Especially the high school options. Which one is a potential Bregman? We might well be able to sign Denney at $1.8 mil and still sign Sheffield and a few others. Something probably has to give somewhere though and I'm not just assuming we throw it all at Denney. We may have a stronger position that we think with this guy. He's still a high school kid who might have to wait 3 years to get drafted again if he is a major college recruit. I would seriously consider $1.3 mil in his situation.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 10, 2013 0:44:49 GMT -5
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Post by homerdante on Jun 10, 2013 1:10:30 GMT -5
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Post by ramireja on Jun 10, 2013 6:10:32 GMT -5
First let me say that I'm all for signing Denney so as long as its in the 1.2 - 1.6 mill range. That being said, is anyone else a little concerned by his near 20% k rate in high school? I see nothing but praise for his hit tool, or at least projectable hit tool, but that kind of k rate is a bit alarming.
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sarasoxer
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Posts: 3,775
Member is Online
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 10, 2013 6:15:00 GMT -5
Thanks for this. It was an interesting listen.
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Post by Jim Crowell on Jun 10, 2013 6:21:22 GMT -5
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Post by ramireja on Jun 10, 2013 6:33:24 GMT -5
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Post by sammo420 on Jun 10, 2013 7:46:30 GMT -5
Just a suggestion/observation Next year when we start these threads can we put the rules of the draft in English not lawyer speak at the first post so it doesn't get brought up all the time and point out that yeah, some of the picks are protected but its still worth signing the guy.
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Post by redsox1534 on Jun 10, 2013 8:27:17 GMT -5
I think Denny will sign. He has already made some comments about how happy he is to be drafted by the redsox and to be apart of the org. Also said he is a redsox fan an has been his whole life. I think he sign for around 1.5. I think one of Sheffield or Boldt sign. I think Sheffield will be the one because he will sign cheaper if not alot cheaper and has the searious injury that could use the re-hab of a mlb team vs a college team.
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Post by elguapo on Jun 10, 2013 8:36:38 GMT -5
After Storm Throne's visit to town this weekend, I just can't get excited about Forrestt Allday as a name.
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Jun 10, 2013 8:55:34 GMT -5
Reading over the third day post on Minorleagueball.com, you see awesome cheesy names like Skye Bolt and Forrest Snow. Great stuff.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jun 10, 2013 9:00:39 GMT -5
In the podcast Sawdaye said that Tom Kotchman played a big role in the Mike Adams pick (7th round).
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 10, 2013 9:30:11 GMT -5
I heard that Denney said he was a Sox fan as well; I wonder how much that helps us sign him. Obviously he is not going to go below slot just because he is fan, but is it out of the question that he might come down a few hundred thousand for us? Because that could mean signing him Sheffield and few other guys not named Boldt.
I also wonder if he really was a fan or if he was just trying to say all the right things because we drafted him.
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Post by azblue on Jun 10, 2013 9:40:21 GMT -5
What is the source of Denney having "questionable defense"? I have never seen this.
Just because some comments have been made that he has a good enough bat to be moved is NOT a comment on his defense, which appears to be quite good.
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Post by bluechip on Jun 10, 2013 9:53:52 GMT -5
What is the source of Denney having "questionable defense"? I have never seen this. Just because some comments have been made that he has a good enough bat to be moved is NOT a comment on his defense, which appears to be quite good. Most scouting reports note his raw defense. BA commented that he needs to work on his footwork. Keith Law, notes "his receiving is shaky." BP also noted that "he's taken a slight step backwards, showing stiffer hands, inconsistencies in his footwork, and a slowed lower-half than he displayed on the scouting circuit some six to eight months earlier." insider.espn.go.com/mlb/draft/player/_/id/19326/jonathan-denney?www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20863Though, most agree that he has the arm and the hands to be a catcher.
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Post by taftreign on Jun 10, 2013 9:58:14 GMT -5
Even though Denney is a fan of the Red Sox I don't expect he is going to "give away" a couple hundred thousand dollars and nor should he. I don't believe any of us would either. Especially when the club is willing to pay the extra dollars. As long as he doesn't ask for extra money beyond. And as we all expect the club surely had some idea of his price tag when they selected him.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jun 10, 2013 10:30:17 GMT -5
Reading over the third day post on Minorleagueball.com, you see awesome cheesy names like Skye Bolt and Forrest Snow. Great stuff. If you haven't seen Skye Bolt play, you are in for a treat! This kid is really an exciting all around player. He is a freshman and I would think be a pretty high draft choice in 2 years. Carolina was a different team without him in the line-up for a few weeks when he was injured.
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Jun 10, 2013 10:34:56 GMT -5
Reading over the third day post on Minorleagueball.com, you see awesome cheesy names like Skye Bolt and Forrest Snow. Great stuff. If you haven't seen Skye Bolt play, you are in for a treat! This kid is really an exciting all around player. He is a freshman and I would think be a pretty high draft choice in 2 years. Carolina was a different team without him in the line-up for a few weeks when he was injured. With all of the various things I watch I don't have time to fit College Baseball in the mix. I have heard the name, but not the player. All the same, awesome name! haha.
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