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Garin Cecchini to Portland
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 20, 2013 14:40:29 GMT -5
Mike Carp is your long term solution at 1st base , but I'd groom Almanzar. Yeah, I'm willing to keep an open mind, but saying Carp is your long term solution at first is a but premature.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 20, 2013 14:41:35 GMT -5
Almanzar screams trade candidate to me. He needs 40 man status this year, reestablished his value, and is not absolutely blocked but is in a pretty competitive pool.
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Post by taftreign on Jun 20, 2013 22:52:41 GMT -5
This is an exciting time. I love Cecchini's game. He is my current favorite prospect in the minors. Obviously Bogaerts is the better prospect but Garin is my kind of player. I still think he plays much like a David Wright. Will offer mid range power while adding some SBs, thinking an annual 15/15 player, who brings an above average BA and OBP while playing a solid defense. Likely never the star Wright is but I believe a player who can stick at the position for many years. Many like more power out of 3rd but if you have Bogaerts at SS giving you potential 30 HR power it easily offsets any discrepancy. For me the issue will be how best to fill the 1B position. I'm not sure how the system rankins would look as a depth chart at 1B. The BA Prospect Handbook had it as Shaw, Gomez, Almanzar and Moanaroa in that order. Gomez is gone and the rest isn't very reassuring. Too bad Brentz doesn't know how to play 1st because I think his bat would at least be serviceable there with enough power where you'll be okay if he hits .250 to .260.
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Post by taftreign on Jun 20, 2013 23:00:25 GMT -5
Not sure there's an obvious next promotion after Cecchini. The pitchers are likely better served getting another time through the league at the current level with depth at every level from High A up. Swihart's not moving up until Vazquez moves up and I think he sticks at AA the rest of the year unless a trade forces him up. The position players all have aspects of their game to work on both with the bat and with the glove and are best served where they are awhile longer. Perhaps a player moves from Lowell to Greenville in a month or so as the next promotion because there are easily a few lineup spots open at Greenville.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 21, 2013 6:00:46 GMT -5
Mike Carp is your long term solution at 1st base , but I'd groom Almanzar. Yeah, I'm willing to keep an open mind, but saying Carp is your long term solution at first is a but premature. Agree. I think at the Least Carp needs a platoon partner, which really makes him a swing guy who can play 1B/LF... ooh, kinda like they have him this year. Only next year he will get PT off the bat, and we won't be nervous about using him as an injury replacement. In short, he seems like a guy who you can count on against RHP, and to do his defensive job at the bottom of the spectrum. He also probably allows you to carry a defense/baserunning/no hit CF backup.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 21, 2013 6:31:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm willing to keep an open mind, but saying Carp is your long term solution at first is a but premature. Agree. I think at the Least Carp needs a platoon partner, which really makes him a swing guy who can play 1B/LF... ooh, kinda like they have him this year. Only next year he will get PT off the bat, and we won't be nervous about using him as an injury replacement. In short, he seems like a guy who you can count on against RHP, and to do his defensive job at the bottom of the spectrum. He also probably allows you to carry a defense/baserunning/no hit CF backup. Why would Carp need a platoon partner? Doesn't he have very little split (career 791-800) and some years none (reverse in 2011, 884-761)? This is not to say confidently that he is a long-term solution, but I don't see Carp plus RHH as being much better than Carp.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 21, 2013 9:03:24 GMT -5
For his MLB career (2009-2013) he has 154 plate appearances (SSS) against LHP and a 102 OPS+ but a .380 BABIP. His career split against LH starters is an 86 OPS+. Basically in those 17 PA's vs LH relievers (ie. lesser LHP) he has 10 hits (mostly singles, 1 3B, 1 HR*). My guess is there is a platoon advantage, and having had limited AB's against LHP won't have helped his progress in that respect. *and -1 BB and -1 double if Baseball Reference is to be believed, so take all this with a grain of salt. Splits page: www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=carpmi01&year=Career&t=b
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2013 9:09:18 GMT -5
So Cecchini is now at a level where we can start to get excited about his performance if its good. Just a step away from Boston, but it can be a long step to make.
Those worried about WMB should be, but its not a desperate situation. Iglesias and Bogaerts are internal options. No need to panic on it at this point and Almanzar is out of the equation and should be. If you really think he should be considered or moved up for the reason of forcing him to be closer then you have shiney new toy syndrome. It affects Red Sox fans a lot.
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Post by jdb on Jun 21, 2013 10:02:19 GMT -5
I think Cecchini needs some defensive improvement before he gets a call to Boston. I'm not trying to move him off 3B but he seems athletic enough to handle a corner OF spot and if that power ticks up a little more 1B isn't out of the question. For now though he needs as many reps at third as possible.
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Post by curll on Jul 6, 2013 21:53:10 GMT -5
Here's a compilation video of Garin's time in Portland
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Jul 6, 2013 22:32:12 GMT -5
I don't see Carp at 1b long term. Assuming Iglesias can outhit Rey Ordonez, the Sox future IF should be Cecchini (1b), Pedroia (2b), Iglesias (SS), Bogaerts (3b) If Iglesias reverts back to Ordonez-ville then Cecchini (1b), Pedroia (2b), Bogaerts (SS), Middlebrooks (3b) Not sure which is the real Iglesias yet but every day he goes 2-4 it looks better and better. Remember he is still only 23 so his bat could still be developing.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 7, 2013 9:36:15 GMT -5
I think Cecchini needs some defensive improvement before he gets a call to Boston. I'm not trying to move him off 3B but he seems athletic enough to handle a corner OF spot and if that power ticks up a little more 1B isn't out of the question. For now though he needs as many reps at third as possible. Ideally Cecchini seems best suited for 2nd base. He is not good enough defensively to play at SS or 3rd in the big leagues and has next to no power,but is a pure hitting machine. If he is still hitting through July,I think the Sox should start introducing him to 2nd base and eventually bring him up to Pawtucket as a 2nd baseman. After that it gets dicey, because we have an MVP candidate at 2nd base currently in Boston. Right now Cecchini's situation is too much like Jeff Bagwell's for my liking. It's just that I do not see Cecchini ever developing Bagwell like power.
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 7, 2013 9:48:03 GMT -5
Everyone is whistling past the graveyard on Cecchini in Portland. The league has caught up to him, as he is 0-1 in stolen bases.
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Post by njsox on Jul 7, 2013 9:55:55 GMT -5
I think Cecchini needs some defensive improvement before he gets a call to Boston. I'm not trying to move him off 3B but he seems athletic enough to handle a corner OF spot and if that power ticks up a little more 1B isn't out of the question. For now though he needs as many reps at third as possible. Ideally Cecchini seems best suited for 2nd base. He is not good enough defensively to play at SS or 3rd in the big leagues and has next to no power,but is a pure hitting machine. If he is still hitting through July,I think the Sox should start introducing him to 2nd base and eventually bring him up to Pawtucket as a 2nd baseman. After that it gets dicey, because we have an MVP candidate at 2nd base currently in Boston. Right now Cecchini's situation is too much like Jeff Bagwell's for my liking. It's just that I do not see Cecchini ever developing Bagwell like power. What makes you say he is ideally suited for 2nd base? 2nd base is a premium defensive position that usually requires lots of athleticism to show premium range and the ability to make the turn for the double play. I can't think of any failed 3rd baseman that were moved to second base. Additionally I have no concerns over Cecchini's perceived "lack of power". I say perceived because he is slugging well over .500 on the year and has shown the ability to lace plenty of extra base hits as well as an ability to go the other way, which in Fenway could make for a ton of doubles off the wall. He has also shown the ability to hit for a high average to to get on base often while maintaining a reasonable k%. If he can be this type of player in the majors I'm sure he would be extremely serviceable even without hitting many HR's. Think Mike Greenwell.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jul 7, 2013 10:02:23 GMT -5
Ideally Cecchini seems best suited for 2nd base. He is not good enough defensively to play at SS or 3rd in the big leagues and has next to no power,but is a pure hitting machine. He had a nearly .200 IsoP in Salem, and while it's too early to draw any conclusions in AA, his .170+ IsoP for the Sea Dogs is at the very least NOT evidence of a complete lack of power. And, fwiw (which isn't much), these numbers dwarf Bagwell's power numbers in the minors at similar age/levels.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2013 10:23:37 GMT -5
Cecchini has plenty of power and the frame to project more is to come.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 7, 2013 10:41:37 GMT -5
I think Cecchini needs some defensive improvement before he gets a call to Boston. I'm not trying to move him off 3B but he seems athletic enough to handle a corner OF spot and if that power ticks up a little more 1B isn't out of the question. For now though he needs as many reps at third as possible. Ideally Cecchini seems best suited for 2nd base. He is not good enough defensively to play at SS or 3rd in the big leagues and has next to no power,but is a pure hitting machine. If he is still hitting through July,I think the Sox should start introducing him to 2nd base and eventually bring him up to Pawtucket as a 2nd baseman. After that it gets dicey, because we have an MVP candidate at 2nd base currently in Boston. Right now Cecchini's situation is too much like Jeff Bagwell's for my liking. It's just that I do not see Cecchini ever developing Bagwell like power. Your perception of who Cecchini is, is off. He has produced plenty of power this year and has a frame that projects to better-than-average power. He also has the tools to be a solid-average fielder at third, including a plus arm. He's a little rough with his actions in the field, but that figures to improve with experience. If he isn't able to make the adjustments necessary at third then a move to LF is much more likely than a move to 2B.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 7, 2013 11:22:28 GMT -5
Ideally Cecchini seems best suited for 2nd base. He is not good enough defensively to play at SS or 3rd in the big leagues and has next to no power,but is a pure hitting machine. If he is still hitting through July,I think the Sox should start introducing him to 2nd base and eventually bring him up to Pawtucket as a 2nd baseman. After that it gets dicey, because we have an MVP candidate at 2nd base currently in Boston. Right now Cecchini's situation is too much like Jeff Bagwell's for my liking. It's just that I do not see Cecchini ever developing Bagwell like power. Your perception of who Cecchini is, is off. He has produced plenty of power this year and has a frame that projects to better-than-average power. He also has the tools to be a solid-average fielder at third, including a plus arm. He's a little rough with his actions in the field, but that figures to improve with experience. If he isn't able to make the adjustments necessary at third then a move to LF is much more likely than a move to 2B. I second this opinion totally. Garin is not a 2nd baseman. He keeps getting bigger and bigger. I've seen him several times and I believe he is very capable of being a 15 to 20 homer type player for years. If he stays in the infield, he will be at the corners. I see him as a consistent .300 hitter with 60 extra base hits a year.
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Post by widewordofsport on Jul 7, 2013 12:16:29 GMT -5
If it came down to getting Cecchini and Middlebrooks both in the lineup, Middlebrooks is a better defender at 3B, right?
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Post by kutchernation on Jul 7, 2013 12:59:53 GMT -5
Re-post from last night's game day thread..
Just back from the Sea Dogs game...
- First time seeing Cecchini. Man, folks should be excited about him. Strong ABs, all four times he showed great strike zone judgement, got hitter's pitches and didn't miss one, stroking three liners and an opposite field fly over the LF.
First time seeing him live but I can't stress this enough...he stood OUT. I was babbling with excitement to my wife so much that folks around us must've thought I was related to Cecchini.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 7, 2013 13:46:39 GMT -5
Ideally Cecchini seems best suited for 2nd base. He is not good enough defensively to play at SS or 3rd in the big leagues and has next to no power,but is a pure hitting machine. If he is still hitting through July,I think the Sox should start introducing him to 2nd base and eventually bring him up to Pawtucket as a 2nd baseman. After that it gets dicey, because we have an MVP candidate at 2nd base currently in Boston. Right now Cecchini's situation is too much like Jeff Bagwell's for my liking. It's just that I do not see Cecchini ever developing Bagwell like power. Your perception of who Cecchini is, is off. He has produced plenty of power this year and has a frame that projects to better-than-average power. He also has the tools to be a solid-average fielder at third, including a plus arm. He's a little rough with his actions in the field, but that figures to improve with experience. If he isn't able to make the adjustments necessary at third then a move to LF is much more likely than a move to 2B. With his arm, wouldn't right field be a legitimate possibility?
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Jul 7, 2013 14:41:15 GMT -5
Your perception of who Cecchini is, is off. He has produced plenty of power this year and has a frame that projects to better-than-average power. He also has the tools to be a solid-average fielder at third, including a plus arm. He's a little rough with his actions in the field, but that figures to improve with experience. If he isn't able to make the adjustments necessary at third then a move to LF is much more likely than a move to 2B. With his arm, wouldn't right field be a legitimate possibility? I am hoping for somewhere between Mark Grace and Jeff Bagwell...and that is a really good player
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 7, 2013 16:09:55 GMT -5
Your perception of who Cecchini is, is off. He has produced plenty of power this year and has a frame that projects to better-than-average power. He also has the tools to be a solid-average fielder at third, including a plus arm. He's a little rough with his actions in the field, but that figures to improve with experience. If he isn't able to make the adjustments necessary at third then a move to LF is much more likely than a move to 2B. With his arm, wouldn't right field be a legitimate possibility? In Yankee stadium yes, in Fenway.....You hear about the stolen bases and you think he's faster than he probably is.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 7, 2013 16:40:30 GMT -5
Good to see he's increasing his value as the trade deadline approaches.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 7, 2013 17:23:39 GMT -5
With his arm, wouldn't right field be a legitimate possibility? In Yankee stadium yes, in Fenway.....You hear about the stolen bases and you think he's faster than he probably is. Meh. I realize he is not a burner and is below average speed wise, but its not like the right fielder needs to be faster than a left fielder. In fact lots of times the faster guy ends up in left because he lacks the arm for center. He shouldn't be playing right in Fenway, but at this moment that's not the concern.
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