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Post by mjammz on Jul 12, 2013 21:37:23 GMT -5
Red Sox acquired Matt Thornton from the CWS for OF Brandon Jacobs.. discuss
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 12, 2013 21:37:31 GMT -5
just announced during the game.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 12, 2013 21:39:34 GMT -5
Uh, that's why he was replaced by Vitek. I was going to ask if he was hurt
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 12, 2013 21:41:11 GMT -5
That's perfectly fair.
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Post by theolearyfactor on Jul 12, 2013 21:41:14 GMT -5
I can't remember ever seeing a game broadcast break this news. I hope Jacobs didn't get too settled in in Portland.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 12, 2013 21:44:49 GMT -5
Fair trade.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 12, 2013 21:49:59 GMT -5
Tells me that he wouldn't have been added to the 40-man at the end of the year. Good sign for JHaze, Almanzar and KDLC. For those who were wondering why he got the callup over KDLC, perhaps now you have an answer - he was being showcased.
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Post by mjammz on Jul 12, 2013 21:51:15 GMT -5
Fair Value.. Jacobs was Rule 5 eligible and it's inevitible that the Red Sox will have to move some of their Rule 5 prospects in trades, because they just won't have the 40 man roster spots.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 12, 2013 21:57:19 GMT -5
Jacobs sealed his fate with his first game in Portland. Hope he has a bright future. Thornton's been a pretty fair pitcher over his career. Might be a very good acquisition.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 12, 2013 21:58:51 GMT -5
So the Whitesox saw him play CF (after lots of time in LF the last coupla years) and go 2 for 3 with a triple in his AA debut Thursday. Excellent.
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Post by jmei on Jul 12, 2013 22:02:26 GMT -5
Fair value, I think. Note that Thornton has a $6m team option for 2014 with a $1m buyout, so he's not necessarily just a rental.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 12, 2013 22:04:59 GMT -5
Sean McAdam ?@sean_McAdam Source: Red Sox get $750,000 from CWS to help defray remainder of Thornton salary (about $2.5 million this year, $1 million buyout for '14.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Jul 12, 2013 22:09:29 GMT -5
I liked Ramos more anyways.
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Post by rider on Jul 12, 2013 22:09:59 GMT -5
Nice trade. Makes me wonder what healthy Crain costs.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 12, 2013 22:13:24 GMT -5
I like the deal. I've always liked Thornton although he seems to be in decline. His HR/9 IP ratio will fit in just fine with the rest of the bullpen unfortunately but the cost was palatable. Brandon Jacobs is hardly a slamdunk to be a major league regular and might have not made the 40 man roster next winter anyways. As was said earlier Ramos is becoming a more intriguing prospect and honestly I would expect that either Bogaerts or Cecchini will most likely wind up in LF down the road. I hope Thornton can at least be a good LOOGY.
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Post by jmei on Jul 12, 2013 22:14:36 GMT -5
Note that this isn't the Matt Thornton of old. His strikeout rate has declined four years in a row and now sits at a mediocre 6.75 K/9. That seems related to his fastball velocity, which has also declined four years in a row. Hitters have also made more contact and swung-and-missed less four years in a row. He's still pretty solid versus lefties, though, with a 4.33 K/BB and a 3.73 xFIP in 2013. Still, I expect him to be more of a middle reliever than a true set-up man.
After seeing how sharply he has declined recently, I'm a little disappointed that the Red Sox didn't hold out for a better reliever. Jacobs was not a super valuable trade chip or anything, but I think the Red Sox could have gotten a better reliever (Oliver Perez, Mike Gonzalez, Javier Lopez) for not much more.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 12, 2013 22:19:27 GMT -5
Note that this isn't the Matt Thornton of old. His strikeout rate has declined four years in a row and now sits at a mediocre 6.75 K/9. That seems related to his fastball velocity, which has also declined four years in a row. Hitters have also made more contact and swung-and-missed less four years in a row. He's still pretty solid versus lefties, though, with a 4.33 K/BB and a 3.73 xFIP in 2013. Still, I expect him to be more of a middle reliever than a true set-up man. After seeing how sharply he has declined recently, I'm a little disappointed that the Red Sox didn't hold out for a better reliever. Jacobs was not a super valuable trade chip or anything, but I think the Red Sox could have gotten a better reliever (Oliver Perez, Mike Gonzalez, Javier Lopez) for not much more. Why are we just going to assume the Red Sox are done? This is just really solid value for a Rule 5 guy. Also gets the Red Sox are better bargaining position at the trade table. Less desperate.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 12, 2013 22:25:23 GMT -5
Very good trade for a lefty specialist or sixth inning guy. Thornton is not going to be closing, but he adds nice depth to the pen. Jacobs was very expendable.
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Post by jmei on Jul 12, 2013 22:30:31 GMT -5
Jacobs was technically a Rule 5 guy, but there's little to no chance he would have stuck on a major league roster all year, even if he continues his recent hot streak. He's also a personal binky of mine, but I've come to accept that he probably strikes out too much and is not good enough defensively to ever really be a premium prospect.
Still, count me very unimpressed by Thornton. I'm not sure how much better he is than the likes of Rowland-Smith or Beato, and I get the feeling that the Red Sox are paying more for past performance than future performance. Thornton's 4.71 FIP and 4.37 xFIP are well below-average for a reliever, and he's getting paid a lot to boot.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 12, 2013 22:33:56 GMT -5
I was rooting for Jacobs. I like the 2 sport guys. Ever since Bo knows.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 12, 2013 22:34:08 GMT -5
Jacobs was technically a Rule 5 guy, but there's little to no chance he would have stuck on a major league roster all year, even if he continues his recent hot streak. He's also a personal binky of mine, but I've come to accept that he probably strikes out too much and is not good enough defensively to ever really be a premium prospect. Still, count me very unimpressed by Thornton. I'm not sure how much better he is than the likes of Rowland-Smith or Beato, and I get the feeling that the Red Sox are paying more for past performance than future performance. Thornton's 4.71 FIP and 4.37 xFIP are well below-average for a reliever, and he's getting paid a lot to boot. he is nails against LHH
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Post by jmei on Jul 12, 2013 22:42:35 GMT -5
His 3.73 xFIP versus lefties in 2013 is above-average but not by much (league-average reliever xFIP is 3.88). He was much better versus lefties in 2012 (2.78 xFIP), though.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 13, 2013 0:40:56 GMT -5
Not against the trade but it's very possible jacobs is one of those guys who emerge years later as a solid player. Maybe he is just now recovering fully from the injury and showing his pop again. Has good tools. They did have rule 5 issues though and maybe the White Sox are in a position to protect him several more years than we would have. Doubt that the Sox end up picking up his option next year.
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Post by mainesox on Jul 13, 2013 0:43:14 GMT -5
Not in love with this trade; I don't hate it by any means, but I don't particularly like it either. Thornton is pretty much the definition of replacement level at this point, and as pointed out by jmei he's been in steady decline for four straight years. If they use him as a strict LOOGY I guess I don't mind it, but I'm worried that Farrell thinks he can use Thornton like another Breslow.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 13, 2013 0:50:40 GMT -5
Hazen was quoted the other day as saying the team was looking to shore up the front part of the bullpen, so I'm inclined to think the Sox know what they're getting at this point. Well, that and they made the trade after scouting him a good amount I'm sure - it's not like this is fantasy baseball and they traded for him based on his ERA and WHIP.
He's still pretty good against LHH: .173/.232/.385. Gets killed by RHH - limit his exposure there and he can be useful as a matchup reliever in the middle innings.
My guess is Beato back to Pawtucket to make room.
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