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Post by jmei on Oct 14, 2012 17:33:00 GMT -5
If his ceiling is a 4.5 WAR player, that's a top 5 shortstop and a regular all-star-type player. You're right that he won't get much better, but he's only 24 and is far, far from entering the decline phase of his career when you'd expect his defense/baserunning to slip. Besides, if he improves his plate discipline even a little bit or develops a little more doubles power (not unreasonable given his youth), he can still increase his value as he reaches his peak years.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 14, 2012 18:39:07 GMT -5
True that.
Ellsbury + Britton would probably be fine though.
We shouldve traded him last year, but you know what they say about hindsight.
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Post by dmaineah on Oct 15, 2012 6:22:44 GMT -5
Most posters here believe Iglesias is the second coming of Ozzie Smith and will hit 260 with an on base % of 310. Now if we could only get The Arizona Diamondbacks to believe it as well we could get Upton for Iglesias and a low level prospect. And I'd be willing to do that. In fact that's all I'd be willing to do for him. Upton is not and will not be "a stud middle of the order potential superstar". I certainly wouldn't include Buchholz in any package for Upton. And by the way, because of his contrat situation Ellsbury on his own wouldn't even be close to land Andrus nor would Ellsbury + Britton.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 15, 2012 13:13:53 GMT -5
Most posters here believe Iglesias is the second coming of Ozzie Smith and will hit 260 with an on base % of 310. Now if we could only get The Arizona Diamondbacks to believe it as well we could get Upton for Iglesias and a low level prospect. And I'd be willing to do that. In fact that's all I'd be willing to do for him. Upton is not and will not be "a stud middle of the order potential superstar". I certainly wouldn't include Buchholz in any package for Upton. And by the way, because of his contrat situation Ellsbury on his own wouldn't even be close to land Andrus nor would Ellsbury + Britton. Theres a far better chance of an Ellsbury package netting Andrus than Iglesias and a low level spec getting Upton. I think an Andrus for Upton trade makes a lot of sense.
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Post by welovewally on Oct 15, 2012 23:22:15 GMT -5
I don't think Ellsbury & Britton get us Upton. I don't think The Red Sox are a good match with Arizona for Upton unless they are willing to part with someone like Middlebrooks & Bogaerts
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2012 14:17:06 GMT -5
The Sox are constantly coming up with good hitters. There is no need to trade for one. Take for instance 2012- Three first or second year players had very good years offensively- Josh Reddick, Anthony Rizzo, Will Middlebrooks... Only one played for the Sox.
Bottom Line:
The Red Sox are constantly coming up with good hitters every few years and there is no need to trade for one. All they need to do is NOT TRADE ANY PROSPECTS!!! Bogaerts, Brentz, Cecchini, and Bradley are among the next wave of good players that are no more than two years away from the bigs. Wait them out! Then maybe then the Sox will have the Reddick, Rizzo, and Middlebrooks of 2014 if they keep all of their prospects.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 16, 2012 15:36:46 GMT -5
The Sox are constantly coming up with good hitters. There is no need to trade for one. Take for instance 2012- Three first or second year players had very good years offensively- Josh Reddick, Anthony Rizzo, Will Middlebrooks... Only one played for the Sox. Bottom Line:The Red Sox are constantly coming up with good hitters every few years and there is no need to trade for one. All they need to do is NOT TRADE ANY PROSPECTS!!! Bogaerts, Brentz, Cecchini, and Bradley are among the next wave of good players that are no more than two years away from the bigs. Wait them out! Then maybe then the Sox will have the Reddick, Rizzo, and Middlebrooks of 2014 if they keep all of their prospects. You claim that Middlebrooks (along with Reddick and Rizzo) had very good seasons, yet you wouldn't include Cecchini in a trade. In two years, when Garin is knocking at the door, where are you going to fit him in? If Middlebrooks is the Sox 3B for the future, you deal from a position of strength by including a player like Ceccchini if it is a piece to net you a Justin Upton.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 16, 2012 15:37:39 GMT -5
The Sox are constantly coming up with good hitters. There is no need to trade for one. Take for instance 2012- Three first or second year players had very good years offensively- Josh Reddick, Anthony Rizzo, Will Middlebrooks... Only one played for the Sox. Bottom Line:The Red Sox are constantly coming up with good hitters every few years and there is no need to trade for one. All they need to do is NOT TRADE ANY PROSPECTS!!! Bogaerts, Brentz, Cecchini, and Bradley are among the next wave of good players that are no more than two years away from the bigs. Wait them out! Then maybe then the Sox will have the Reddick, Rizzo, and Middlebrooks of 2014 if they keep all of their prospects. You claim that Middlebrooks (along with Reddick and Rizzo) had very good seasons, yet you wouldn't include Cecchini in a trade. In two years, when Garin is knocking at the door, where are you going to fit him in? If Middlebrooks is the Sox 3B for the future, you deal from a position of strength by including a player like Ceccchini if it is a piece to net you a Justin Upton.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 19:01:14 GMT -5
I can't remember where, but i hear that Cecchini can play short. I think it was an MLB.com video, but not sure.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 17, 2012 22:29:40 GMT -5
I can't remember where, but i hear that Cecchini can play short. I think it was an MLB.com video, but not sure. So you would consider moving Cecchini to a shortstop position already clogged with Iglesias and Bogaerts, and possibly Marrero in two years?
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Post by welovewally on Oct 17, 2012 23:49:33 GMT -5
I can't remember where, but i hear that Cecchini can play short. I think it was an MLB.com video, but not sure. So you would consider moving Cecchini to a shortstop position already clogged with Iglesias and Bogaerts, and possibly Marrero in two years? If he could play SS wouldn't he be playing SS now? He still young.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 18, 2012 11:29:34 GMT -5
Yeah, theres no way he could handle SS at the major league level. If anything he would move to second or the outfield.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 14:49:02 GMT -5
Bogaerts is likely to outgrow short. He wont move to third because of Will Middlebrooks, so he is likely to go to left field
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Post by charliezink16 on Oct 20, 2012 15:39:07 GMT -5
Heath Bell to ARI, Chris Young to OAK, Yordy Cabrera to MIA.
This could escalate the A-Rod to MIA rumors unfortunately, but does this take away a potential Justin Upton trade? Now they have Parra, Upton, and Kubel, with AJ Pollock coming up and Adam Eaton as a backup.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 20, 2012 15:42:49 GMT -5
If we included Brentz or Kalish in a hypothetical deal for him then they still have any reason the had before to trade him.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 20, 2012 18:21:09 GMT -5
Heath Bell to ARI, Chris Young to OAK, Yordy Cabrera to MIA. This could escalate the A-Rod to MIA rumors unfortunately, but does this take away a potential Justin Upton trade? Now they have Parra, Upton, and Kubel, with AJ Pollock coming up and Adam Eaton as a backup. This was my first thought when I heard about Young being traded. 1st: we had some interest in Chris Young, and 2nd: it may stop them from moving Upton now. Hope this move MOTIVATES both Toronto and us to get this charade over with respect to prolonging acceptable compensation. There are MANY more important things going on now and in the near future for Cherington to put all of his concentration on.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 25, 2012 7:22:09 GMT -5
Upton is not and will not be "a stud middle of the order potential superstar". I certainly wouldn't include Buchholz in any package for Upton. He's already BEEN that player, twice. He had a .898 OPS last year when he was 23. As a point of comparison, future Superstar Bryce "100 RBI" Brentz had an .833 OPS at age 23, in AA.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 25, 2012 14:37:48 GMT -5
Upton is not and will not be "a stud middle of the order potential superstar". I certainly wouldn't include Buchholz in any package for Upton. He's already BEEN that player, twice. He had a .898 OPS last year when he was 23. As a point of comparison, future Superstar Bryce "100 RBI" Brentz had an .833 OPS at age 23, in AA. Agreed. Idk how dmaineah can say that about Upton and also say Brentz is better than JBJ.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 26, 2012 15:03:50 GMT -5
Sounds like, from Ranger GM Jon Daniels, they are not at all thinking of moving Elvis Andrus. If so, an Upton to Texas is looking less and less as possible.
And opening?
I'd hate to lose Jacoby Ellsbury, but I really doubt, once he gets to free agency, he is coming back to us. How about we send a difficult package to turn down?
Like Ells and a young pitcher to Arizona for Upton. Expand it if necessary. We REALLY could use a middle-of-the-lineup right-hand hitting outfielder. And he is still 25!
Ells is my favorite player, but Boras will almost certainly find someone who will pay him more. Sign Victorino as a place-holder till Bradley is ready.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 26, 2012 15:16:22 GMT -5
I wouldnt believe Daniels. That's an attempt to raise the price. They would have to move Kinsler into the outfield, where his arm isnt good enough for RF and his bat no longer plays up. They will trade one of those guys.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 26, 2012 20:25:25 GMT -5
If the D-Backs trade Upton, I doubt it will be for another outfielder. They seem content with Parra, Kubel, Eaton, etc. going forward. Kevin Towers has said that the team needs a shortstop.
I can't see him moving a 25 year old stud, budding star, middle-of-the-order outfielder for another one approaching age thirty with an injury history who'se about to become a FA at the season's end, even with the added prospect.
Any Upton trade will center around Jose Iglesias ++.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 27, 2012 1:16:05 GMT -5
If the D-Backs trade Upton, I doubt it will be for another outfielder. They seem content with Parra, Kubel, Eaton, etc. going forward. Kevin Towers has said that the team needs a shortstop. I can't see him moving a 25 year old stud, budding star, middle-of-the-order outfielder for another one approaching age thirty with an injury history who'se about to become a FA at the season's end, even with the added prospect. Any Upton trade will center around Jose Iglesias ++. I would assume we're not trying to get rid of any upper tier specs To me, i cant see a deal where we dont give up a pitcher. I think Buchholz would be the guy dealt with Iglesias. You guys may not agree but thats the type of trade i see if this was to happen.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 27, 2012 7:08:26 GMT -5
If the D-Backs trade Upton, I doubt it will be for another outfielder. They seem content with Parra, Kubel, Eaton, etc. going forward. Kevin Towers has said that the team needs a shortstop. I can't see him moving a 25 year old stud, budding star, middle-of-the-order outfielder for another one approaching age thirty with an injury history who'se about to become a FA at the season's end, even with the added prospect. Any Upton trade will center around Jose Iglesias ++. I would assume we're not trying to get rid of any upper tier specs To me, i cant see a deal where we dont give up a pitcher. I think Buchholz would be the guy dealt with Iglesias. You guys may not agree but thats the type of trade i see if this was to happen. Doubront?
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Oct 28, 2012 8:11:22 GMT -5
Sorry if this is the wrong area to post this, but I didn't think it worthy of starting its own thread.
I like the idea of calling Arizona, but I don't think we have the package of players (that we would be ok with giving up) to acquire a player of Justin Upton's status (current - and potential).
That said, I'd go another way and look at some of their young pitching.
Depending on how seriously they are "done" with their outfield, I would love to explore the idea of an Iglesias and Ellsbury for one of their three pitching prospects (Bradley, Bauer, Skaggs) or Cahill. My guess is this package would not be enough to get Cahill or Bauer, but they might bite on one of the other two.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 8, 2012 22:27:36 GMT -5
According to Mark Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times, B. J. Upton has informed the Rays that he has declined the team's offer for a contract.
This is interesting, because it frees up resources for the cash-strapped franchise to trade with Phoenix for B.J.'s brother, Justin, B. J. would have been owed $13.3 m if he accepted Tampa's offer. Justin is under control for a few more years and earns less than 10m.
Price might be Price, though.
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