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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 26, 2013 18:08:03 GMT -5
I never said trading for him is a good idea, not once did I mention prospect package or money nor do I claim to know what it would cost, what I did disagree with was the following statement... This team is not built to go deep in the playoffs even if they acquire Lee or Peavy. Lee would significantly improve our team's chances of winning.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jul 26, 2013 18:21:03 GMT -5
brianthetaoistI actually see trading Henry Owens as a possibility. Look at it like this. The team has 6 fair to decent SP in the upper minors and a couple already in the lower in Ball, Stanky, Buttery and Callahan to name a few. yeah, none are nearly as high/polished as Owens.. Then the team is figuring to develop a couple (at least) out of the "Big 6" nearly ready. In years past, when the team had a shortage of arms? It would have been unheard of to move such a talent if the right guy came along in a deal the team needed, but now? I could see it if he was packaged for a.. Well controllable young hitter, SP etc.. Kind of another VMart type of impact player and yeah.. It would take more than an Owens type that is still a wild card prospect with great upside at this point. Don't necessarily disagree that they could, it's just that Owen's not all that valuable a trade chip, so his value as a prospect to the Sox outweighs his value as a trade chip. Same with Barnes. I don't think that's true of Ranaudo, Britton, Webster, RDLR, and possibly Workman, but I think Workman can help in Boston this year, so you have to factor that in. Peavy would help the team. Lee would certainly help the team. Lots of guys would help the team. Giancarlo Stanton would help the team. It's just if the cost/benefit works out in the short and long term.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 26, 2013 18:29:39 GMT -5
Sure Lee would improve the rotation, but it is likely going to cost a significant amount in terms of prospects and current and future salary obligations. I do not think that cost is worth it when I think the Red Sox likely would be a wildcard team playing a one game playoff. Also, the loss of a number of cost controlled top prospects are extremely difficult to replace under the current collective bargaining agreement.
I'd much rather they sign MAG and bring up Bogaerts to play 3rd and De La Rosa for the bullpen.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2013 18:46:34 GMT -5
Lee scratched from tom start../.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 18:49:04 GMT -5
I would offer to take the whole salary and the Phils can have one of: RDLR/Ranaudo + Webster/Britton + Marrero/Brentz.
That should be enough to have him ready to go against Price on Mon, and we can stick Workman in the pen after one time through a six man rotation.
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Post by ikonos on Jul 26, 2013 18:49:35 GMT -5
Hmm if Sox get him, look for him to start Monday game against Price
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 26, 2013 18:51:35 GMT -5
Lee scratched from tom start../. Due to neck stiffness, not trade related.
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Post by ikonos on Jul 26, 2013 18:53:31 GMT -5
Dont trade for the always injured Lee
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 26, 2013 18:55:03 GMT -5
I hate to overrate the idiocy and false machismo of pitching through injuries, but Cliff Lee could get hit by a car on the day of his start and talk his manager into letting him pitch that night. A "stiff neck" at the trading deadline is a tad too convenient.
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 26, 2013 18:55:54 GMT -5
WTF? He's thrown 200 innings for 5 straight years, going on 6.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2013 18:56:09 GMT -5
Lee scratched from tom start../. Due to neck stiffness, not trade related. sure...... lol
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Post by ikonos on Jul 26, 2013 18:57:02 GMT -5
Are you saying Lee doesn't want to get traded? or Ruben doesn't want him to pitch until the deadline is over to avoid injuries?
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 18:59:00 GMT -5
Are you saying Lee doesn't want to get traded? or Ruben doesn't want him to pitch until the deadline is over to avoid injuries?Or even more likely, buyers don't want him to waste a start.
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Post by ikonos on Jul 26, 2013 19:02:14 GMT -5
Are you saying Lee doesn't want to get traded? or Ruben doesn't want him to pitch until the deadline is over to avoid injuries?Or even more likely, buyers don't want him to waste a start. That could be a case only if a deal is going to happen in the next 24-48 hours. I don't see Phillies holding off on using him till Wednesday otherwise.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 19:08:59 GMT -5
We are talking about Ruben Amaro here...
ADDED: If he had half a clue he'd trade Lee for the best offer from a team that can take all the salary. Then he'd take the savings and turn around and also buy Miguel Gonzalez.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 26, 2013 19:18:26 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 19:21:49 GMT -5
If Dayton Moore had a tenth of a clue he'd see what interest Lee and Peavy are drawing and dangle Shields. I know I'm talking about Amaro and Moore having clues, here. That kind of evening.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 26, 2013 19:34:53 GMT -5
He also has a 16 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio. Cliff Lee is around the plate so much that he gives up a share of home runs. But because he never walks anyone and strikes so many guys out, they're frequently solo home runs. Curt Schilling was the same way, and the Red Sox did fine trading for him (despite any post-career malfeasance).
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 26, 2013 19:47:30 GMT -5
Yeah, hopefully this will scare off the really dumb teams.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 20:04:30 GMT -5
9 HRs in his last 4 games, if we want to be precise.
As long as his medicals pass muster I'm good with this. Make it so, Ben. Get it done tomorrow, then we can start him Monday.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 26, 2013 20:06:04 GMT -5
No on Cliff Lee unless the Red Sox eat a lot of the contract hence don't have to give up many prospects.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,981
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Post by jimoh on Jul 26, 2013 20:25:36 GMT -5
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Post by mjammz on Jul 26, 2013 21:02:19 GMT -5
Red Sox lose first place and lose Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez to the Phillies.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 26, 2013 21:06:13 GMT -5
I disagree. If we were to acquire Cliff Lee he immediately makes our team MUCH better and would significantly improve our chances at going far in the postseason with this team. Lee would likely cost something like Cecchini, Owens, and a couple of lottery tickets such as Margot and Montas. He is also due $25 million each for 2014 and 2015 with a $12.5 million buyout for 2016. He also has a 20 team no trade contract which includes the Red Sox. Still think trading for Lee is a good idea? No, if the Red Sox are eating all of that money, they are not going to give up Cecchini and Owens. The Dodgers are not eating all of that salary, they have pretty much let it known they have money invested in pitchers and are saving up for Kershaw. The angles have an expensive and crowded rotation. The Chicago teams are both out of the playoff hunt and are sellers. The Yankees are not adding payroll this season. The Rangers just added Garza. Who does that leave? Not many teams with the payroll to absorb that huge salary.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 26, 2013 21:07:22 GMT -5
Red Sox lose first place and lose Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez to the Phillies. That stinks. Amaro has to dump lee now right?
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