|
Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 26, 2013 12:55:58 GMT -5
brianthetaoistI actually see trading Henry Owens as a possibility. Look at it like this. The team has 6 fair to decent SP in the upper minors and a couple already in the lower in Ball, Stanky, Buttery and Callahan to name a few. yeah, none are nearly as high/polished as Owens.. Then the team is figuring to develop a couple (at least) out of the "Big 6" nearly ready. In years past, when the team had a shortage of arms? It would have been unheard of to move such a talent if the right guy came along in a deal the team needed, but now? I could see it if he was packaged for a.. Well controllable young hitter, SP etc.. Kind of another VMart type of impact player and yeah.. It would take more than an Owens type that is still a wild card prospect with great upside at this point.
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Jul 26, 2013 12:57:11 GMT -5
Excerpt from a very long Baseball America scouting report on MAG: Scouts generally agree that Gonzalez is a major leaguer, but projections vary significantly. Scouts highest on Gonzalez see his upside as a No. 3 starter who could pitch in the big leagues immediately, or at least soon after getting acclimated with some Triple-A time. Others see a back-end starter, a middle relief option or a long reliever as more realistic projections given their concerns about how his stuff will play the second time through the order and as major league teams become more familiar with him. Bottom line: He could be a #3 or he could be a long guy. But either way he'll need some time (a week, two, more?) in AAA at least to ramp up. You just need to trust the Red Sox analysis of his ability vthey have HEAVILY scouted this guy. If they think he can bolster the rotation during a stretch run, they're in the best position to make that determination. Plus, always take what scouts say with a grain of salt.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 26, 2013 13:11:51 GMT -5
I don't really see how Peavy would be worth six years of control of Ranaudo. This isn't the Jake Peavy of his San Diego days. This guy is no longer an ace, and honestly wouldn't even slot in ahead of Lackey in the Sox rotation. Right now, Lackey is our #2 starter behind Buchholz, so having Peavy slot in behind Lackey is a good thing. To imply otherwise is just wrong. Based on 2013 performance, I would rank our starters Buchholz, Lackey, Doubront, Lester and Dempster. Peavy would be our #4 starter, ahead of Lester and Dempster. With Buchholz out, Peavy would be our #3 starter and Workman would slot in the bullpen (or go back to AAA as the de facto 6th starter). I also think a Peavy trade sets up a dynamic where Dempster goes to the bullpen in September and October (if everyone is healthy) and sets up a bullpen of Uehara, Tazawa, Dempster, Breslow, Workman, Thornton and one of De La Torre/Wilson/Beato/Britton. I don't see RDLR or Webster making an impact this year. My point wasn't to put down Peavy, because I do think he's a good pitcher, but my point is that he's more of a mid-rotation pitcher at this point and less of top-of-the-rotation pitcher and to me his trade value should reflect that, but I do think another team would view him differently and offer more. To me Peavy isn't worth a Ranaudo but would be worth more of a Britton or Workman to me. And my other point is that if Buchholz is healthy (huge if I know), basically we know Dempster would be displaced, but in a playoff series, either Lester or Doubront would be displaced and for the potential acquisition cost would the upgrade to Peavy be worth it (and it can be mentioned that Peavy is a SSS has been awful in post-season play). My guess is with the amount of competition and the cost to get him the Sox feel MAG is a better gamble and I'm inclined to agree with them (if the rumors are true). As for this year's team I can't put my finger on it, but they remind me a lot of the 1988 and 1990 Joe Morgan managed Red Sox teams won division titles with win totals in the high 80s. They were good teams but not good enough. That's kind of how I think of this team, except that this team I believe is a bridge team to a team with a better future. I understand the cry for RH power in the lineup and I honestly don't think the Sox need to go outside of the organization to get it and the best thing is this would solve the 3b problem. I truly believe that Xander Bogaerts is capable of coming up and sparking this team in September and can turn the position into an asset going into the post-season. I do think he'll get his chance. And of course the Sox need a relief arm to help out Tazawa and Uehara, which is what I think they'll get at the deadline.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 26, 2013 13:14:11 GMT -5
brianthetaoistI actually see trading Henry Owens as a possibility. Look at it like this. The team has 6 fair to decent SP in the upper minors and a couple already in the lower in Ball, Stanky, Buttery and Callahan to name a few. yeah, none are nearly as high/polished as Owens.. Then the team is figuring to develop a couple (at least) out of the "Big 6" nearly ready. In years past, when the team had a shortage of arms? It would have been unheard of to move such a talent if the right guy came along in a deal the team needed, but now? I could see it if he was packaged for a.. Well controllable young hitter, SP etc.. Kind of another VMart type of impact player and yeah.. It would take more than an Owens type that is still a wild card prospect with great upside at this point. Of the Big 6 pitchers they have, I think Owens is the last guy they'd trade. I believe the Sox think very highly of him, and after him I would think Barnes would be the other guy they'd be very inclined to keep.
|
|
|
Post by mjammz on Jul 26, 2013 13:19:52 GMT -5
The price for starting pitching is absolutely absurd right now. I would much rather take the chance on MAG and spend the 40-50 million over 5 years to get him in the fold. From all accounts he is a legit major league arm that can help not only this year but down the road.
The plan has been altered a little bit since the team is in 1st place. But the goal should be go develop and add as many young impact players as possible heading into next season. MAG fits that bill.
|
|
|
Post by mjammz on Jul 26, 2013 13:20:03 GMT -5
The price for starting pitching is absolutely absurd right now. I would much rather take the chance on MAG and spend the 40-50 million over 5 years to get him in the fold. From all accounts he is a legit major league arm that can help not only this year but down the road.
The plan has been altered a little bit since the team is in 1st place. But the goal should be go develop and add as many young impact players as possible heading into next season. MAG fits that bill.
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Jul 26, 2013 13:26:13 GMT -5
brianthetaoistI actually see trading Henry Owens as a possibility. Look at it like this. The team has 6 fair to decent SP in the upper minors and a couple already in the lower in Ball, Stanky, Buttery and Callahan to name a few. yeah, none are nearly as high/polished as Owens.. Then the team is figuring to develop a couple (at least) out of the "Big 6" nearly ready. In years past, when the team had a shortage of arms? It would have been unheard of to move such a talent if the right guy came along in a deal the team needed, but now? I could see it if he was packaged for a.. Well controllable young hitter, SP etc.. Kind of another VMart type of impact player and yeah.. It would take more than an Owens type that is still a wild card prospect with great upside at this point. Of the Big 6 pitchers they have, I think Owens is the last guy they'd trade. I believe the Sox think very highly of him, and after him I would think Barnes would be the other guy they'd be very inclined to keep. Yes. I think they view Owens as a guy that is close to untouchable. When they talked about Ball, they used Owens and Lester as benchmarks. That's putting Owens next to a guy who was a legit top of the rotation starter in the majors. Obviously teams use MLB players as benchmarks all of the time, but in that case they were using Owens as the comparison. Then you have the article where they said they view Owens as a top of the rotation starter. I don't see other teams viewing Owens as highly. Therefore I see Ranaudo as much more likely trade chip.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 13:28:22 GMT -5
So those Bryce Harper for Xander and Cecchini rumors are true. I kiiiiiiiiid.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,981
|
Post by jimoh on Jul 26, 2013 13:37:55 GMT -5
Hmm, Nats-Mets doubleheader.
|
|
|
Post by hammerhead on Jul 26, 2013 13:42:30 GMT -5
If MAG couldn't help this season , but would slot out as a top 3 pitching prospect in the system wouldn't you have to do it?
Cespedes, Soler and Puig have all been as solid as the scouts predicted.... I think this is a chance that the sox have to take.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,981
|
Post by jimoh on Jul 26, 2013 13:46:11 GMT -5
"Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 2m Do #RedSox have wherewithal/willingness to take on Peavy’s $24M and sign Cuban RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez? “Would be tough,” source says."
The math doesn't sound that tough to me.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Jul 26, 2013 14:01:31 GMT -5
OAK signed Cespedes to a four-year deal worth $36 million ($9.0mm AAV) LAD signed Puig to a seven-year deal worth $42 million ($6.0mm AAV) CIN signed Chapman to a six-year deal worth $30.25 million ($5.05mm AAV) CHC signed Soler to a nine-year deal worth $30 million ($3.3mm AAV) TEX signed Martin to a five-year deal worth $15.5 million ($3.17mm AAV)
Keep in mind that there are many other Cubans who have not panned out.
So, how much do you offer MAG (keep in mind that the larger the offer is for MAG the less chance they will trade for a Peavy or other pitcher)? There are some rumors that it may take Cespedes money, although I am more inclined to believe it will be closer to Chapman money. I'd guess five years, $28.5mm ($5.7mm AAV).
He'd likely go to Pawtucket until September (with Contreras as a helpful transition guide to American baseball), with both Contreras and MAG being added to the 40-man roster at that time (MAG may need to be added when he signs, if he signs a major league contract).
|
|
|
Post by tjb21 on Jul 26, 2013 14:04:33 GMT -5
I think it's the combination of the dollars and the riskiness of those said dollars, that would give the Sox the most concern. The math definitely works, but would both risks be "worth it"? I'm not sure.
If Gonzalez is a legit option to be a mid-rotation starter, I'm sure Boston will be all over him.
|
|
|
Post by mjammz on Jul 26, 2013 14:04:35 GMT -5
I think they will offer him something in the range of Chapman's deal.
|
|
|
Post by ikonos on Jul 26, 2013 14:54:50 GMT -5
They should get him but whats a good FA long reliever worth these days? If that is his floor then its a no brainer.
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Jul 26, 2013 15:21:12 GMT -5
OAK signed Cespedes to a four-year deal worth $36 million ($9.0mm AAV) LAD signed Puig to a seven-year deal worth $42 million ($6.0mm AAV) CIN signed Chapman to a six-year deal worth $30.25 million ($5.05mm AAV) CHC signed Soler to a nine-year deal worth $30 million ($3.3mm AAV) TEX signed Martin to a five-year deal worth $15.5 million ($3.17mm AAV) Keep in mind that there are many other Cubans who have not panned out. Encouragingly, most of the recent high profile Cuban signings have worked out well. More encouragingly, there is a long track record of high profile Cuban pitchers making very successful transitions to the majors. How many of the very elite Cuban pitchers did not transition well to the majors?
|
|
|
Post by sammo420 on Jul 26, 2013 15:25:57 GMT -5
OAK signed Cespedes to a four-year deal worth $36 million ($9.0mm AAV) LAD signed Puig to a seven-year deal worth $42 million ($6.0mm AAV) CIN signed Chapman to a six-year deal worth $30.25 million ($5.05mm AAV) CHC signed Soler to a nine-year deal worth $30 million ($3.3mm AAV) TEX signed Martin to a five-year deal worth $15.5 million ($3.17mm AAV) Keep in mind that there are many other Cubans who have not panned out. Encouragingly, most of the recent high profile Cuban signings have worked out well. More encouragingly, there is a long track record of high profile Cuban pitchers making very successful transitions to the majors. How many of the very elite Cuban pitchers did not transition well to the majors? Contreras comes to mind right away but other than that...
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 16:24:33 GMT -5
BOOM: @pawsox Ryan Rowland-Smith throws to Mitch Maier in a simulated game, both are close to returning from the DL http://instagram.com/p/cPkarTSdn1 BAM: ?@brianmacp Franklin Morales will throw a one-inning rehab at Pawtucket on Monday. Alex Wilson will do the same Tuesday. I spit on your overpriced rental relievers MLB GM Marketplace! (though Alex Wilson should stay in Pawtucket barring an injury).
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 16:29:27 GMT -5
Encouragingly, most of the recent high profile Cuban signings have worked out well. More encouragingly, there is a long track record of high profile Cuban pitchers making very successful transitions to the majors. How many of the very elite Cuban pitchers did not transition well to the majors? Contreras comes to mind right away but other than that... "Nationals righthander Yunesky Maya, who had a strong record in Cuba with more pitchability but less velocity than Gonzalez, is a concern for some organizations."Excerpted from Baseball America's www.baseballamerica.com/majors/miguel-alfredo-gonzalez-scouting-report/ (subscription required)
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 16:31:03 GMT -5
Also some YouTube if you haven't see already:
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2013 17:36:19 GMT -5
if PHI sells what would you give up for Cliff lee?
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2013 17:47:29 GMT -5
twitter.com/JesseSanchezMLBJesse Sanchez ?@jessesanchezmlb 6m Source: #Cuba RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez sweepstakes is nearing a conclusion. It's down to two teams: One in each league.
|
|
|
Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 26, 2013 17:47:33 GMT -5
Why expend significant prospects to acquire the likes of Lee, Peavy, etc to qualify for the wild card (assuming the Rays win the division)and a one game play off? This team is not built to go deep in the playoffs even if they acquire Lee or Peavy. I would prefer that they use their resources by bringing up Bogaerts to play 3rd and put De La Rossa in the pen.
|
|
|
Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 26, 2013 17:54:03 GMT -5
I disagree. If we were to acquire Cliff Lee he immediately makes our team MUCH better and would significantly improve our chances at going far in the postseason with this team.
|
|
|
Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 26, 2013 18:00:35 GMT -5
I disagree. If we were to acquire Cliff Lee he immediately makes our team MUCH better and would significantly improve our chances at going far in the postseason with this team. Lee would likely cost something like Cecchini, Owens, and a couple of lottery tickets such as Margot and Montas. He is also due $25 million each for 2014 and 2015 with a $12.5 million buyout for 2016. He also has a 20 team no trade contract which includes the Red Sox. Still think trading for Lee is a good idea?
|
|