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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 11, 2013 15:30:13 GMT -5
Looking for a perhaps rational reason the only that comes to mind if that they are shifting a lot on defense and Xander doesn't know all their shifts because in the minors they don't do that, at least not to the level they have been doing it if at all.
I don't know if there is a way to measure the impact of the shifts they've been doing to asses if its worth taking a hit offensively at the expense of the defensive positioning.
I certainly hope that its not because they don't want to show up the veteran. If its such a good clubhouse then they know whats best for the club and Drew doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would cause a scene.
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 11, 2013 15:49:03 GMT -5
Well, they couldn't have expected Xander to be MLB ready this year. Perhaps the continued playing of Drew is partly to make statement to future vet FA's - especially ones seeking pillow contracts - that they'll still get there AB's and their opportunity to perform and earn a mult-year deal. Then why bring him up? Guidas - it was simply meant in reference to the paragraph below. They acquired Drew with no real expectation or realistic belief that Xander would plow through AA and AAA and be ready for a taste of the majors this year. They committed to Drew. They likely made some promises that they wish to keep regarding playing time if healthy. I'm not sure, but it may go a long ways in future negotiations with players seeking pillow contracts. Sox get a rebound candidate on an attractive 1-year deal which bridge the gap to a prospect being ready or set them up to resign the guy for a longer term. I get what you're saying though.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2013 15:52:31 GMT -5
I think there are a couple of possibilities but I will go with what they have said/implied publicly. Bogarts is going to be a major part of the Red Sox future. In fact he's the team's most important prospect in a long time. It doesn't hurt to help him see what a major league pennant race is like. Plus, if there's an injury or a slump to Middlebrooks or Drew, they can put him in. Further, sitting next to David Ortiz for a few hours can't hurt. And all of that could've been done as needed (injuries) or in the last 2 weeks of the season after Pawtucket finishes with Durham.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 11, 2013 16:00:05 GMT -5
If there is a rational reason for sitting Xander against a left-hander, it has to be defense. I don't think it has much to do with positioning though. That can be run thru before games, b/t innings and from the bench if necessary. Drew is probably a more reliable fielder at this juncture and that, plus playing against a big-time pitcher and a division competitor might be factors if one wants to speculate. Again I think that it really is deference to the established players and showing faith in the boys. Carp, altho a MLguer, is sort of another example. It does bother me though because it feels like doing business as was done before the dawn of man. 'Gotta cut your teeth boy...earn your stripes'.
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Post by jmei on Sept 11, 2013 16:18:17 GMT -5
Looking for a perhaps rational reason the only that comes to mind if that they are shifting a lot on defense and Xander doesn't know all their shifts because in the minors they don't do that, at least not to the level they have been doing it if at all. I don't know if there is a way to measure the impact of the shifts they've been doing to asses if its worth taking a hit offensively at the expense of the defensive positioning. Hazen talked about this in the latest Speier podcast. He said that they don't mind have one new player with the shift since they can just have them play the normal SS/3B position. He mentioned specifically that when it's Xander/Middlebrooks/Pedroia, they'll have Xander play where the normal SS plays and just have Middlebrooks play shallow RF. So this isn't the whole reason Xander isn't playing.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 11, 2013 16:55:50 GMT -5
Hazen talked about this in the latest Speier podcast. He said that they don't mind have one new player with the shift since they can just have them play the normal SS/3B position. He mentioned specifically that when it's Xander/Middlebrooks/Pedroia, they'll have Xander play where the normal SS plays and just have Middlebrooks play shallow RF. So this isn't the whole reason Xander isn't playing. Thanks for the info. So then really I have no idea why he's not playing against tough lefties.
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Post by jmei on Sept 11, 2013 17:23:11 GMT -5
Here's the thing: I see potential reasons you might not want to start Xander-- Drew's defense (and probably baserunning) is better, especially when you take into account relay throws and shifts; the team made a commitment to Drew and he's played well enough to be the "starter"; Xander needs more exposure to the big leagues without the pressure of playing in a playoff chase, etc. I just find none of those reasons particularly compelling. I mean, we've argued about it for weeks, and there's still not been one reason that makes sense from an on-field perspective. I thought they were just going to ease Xander in, but he's started only twice in the last ten games and last night was the perfect opportunity to get him a game versus a lefty, with two righties up tonight and tomorrow.
I'm willing to mostly give it a pass for now because the Red Sox will cruise into a division title and maybe even home-field advantage throughout the playoffs. But when the playoffs arrive and Drew's out there against Derek Holland or Martin Perez or David Price or Matt Moore, it's going to hurt the team's chances of winning as much as any lineup-related managerial decision possibly could.
(At least Detroit and Oakland don't have any lefties in their rotation.)
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 11, 2013 17:29:49 GMT -5
To me the biggest reason to not play Xander is to just minimize the pressure. He is very young and possibly giving him the expectation that they are not counting on him for the playoff run can take a little pressure off of him. The kid must have a lot of stree already with all the hype and such. Farrel's job maybe is to spoon feed him and keep the pressure off. Don't let him think they expect him to be Machado this year, or even next. Let him know to work hard and stay focused but that he is still regarded as just a prospect and to expect some rough edges without letting it get to him too much.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,834
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 11, 2013 17:39:31 GMT -5
Not starting Bogaerts yesterday was absurd, not just because Drew and Price both have extreme splits.
If Xander is going to be on the playoff roster (as of now, I don't see the better options out there), wouldn't it have been worthwhile to get him a taste of what it's like to go up against a guy like Price? It's not completely unrealistic to think Drew (somewhat of an injury history) or Pedroia (been battling an injury all season) gets injured and someone has to step up in his place. The Sox have the luxury of preparing for those types of scenarios, and they missed out on a chance last night.
Never mind the fact that Xander was a much better matchup against Price.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2013 18:04:28 GMT -5
Wow -Pitts sweeps Texas in Texas when Rangers had their pitching lined up. Did not see that coming.
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Post by soxfanatic on Sept 11, 2013 18:12:09 GMT -5
Mike Timlin in the booth right?
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Post by mattpicard on Sept 11, 2013 18:27:33 GMT -5
Mike Timlin in the booth right? Derek Lowe. Timlin will be in the booth in Colorado.
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Post by h11233 on Sept 11, 2013 18:31:32 GMT -5
I get that, barring an injury, they won't start Xander over Drew in a playoff game, but if they are considering putting him on the playoff roster as a RH bat off the bench, then getting ABs against high quality pitchers - and especially LH pitchers - can only help in that goal. A start last night against Price, or at the very least, a pinch hit appearance for Drew when you had a potential run on 3rd and 2 outs late, is about as close as Xander will get to playoff pitching. That was my real disappointment with the non-moves. I didn't expect a straight platoon, but really, with a thick bench right now - and a defensive replacement in MacDonald who could've come in for the 9th, it just seemed like a smart baseball opportunity that was lost. If you're going to try out flaccid veterans like Thornton and other new guys in the pen to see what they have over the next few weeks, then why not do the same with one of the biggest potential impact bats you have available? It's just puzzling. This. who cares if he goes 0-fer with a couple k's. He needs to experience the playoff run, not just spectate. I'd prefer him to get some growing pains out of the way now rather than next season when we really need him to be a factor.
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Post by soxfanatic on Sept 11, 2013 18:32:26 GMT -5
Mike Timlin in the booth right? Derek Lowe. Timlin will be in the booth in Colorado. Thanks!
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Post by jmei on Sept 11, 2013 18:35:33 GMT -5
Ha ha **** you Maddon.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2013 19:06:15 GMT -5
Suck Bearded Ass Maddon!
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2013 19:15:26 GMT -5
Now Dempster trying not to be a vortex of suck
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2013 19:27:51 GMT -5
Dempster is just awful. All used up by the year.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 11, 2013 19:29:48 GMT -5
That's why drew plays every day
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 11, 2013 19:30:17 GMT -5
Huge play by Drew!
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Post by terriblehondo on Sept 11, 2013 19:30:24 GMT -5
That is why Drew is playing.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 11, 2013 19:47:32 GMT -5
I really hope JF doesn't try and squeeze too much out of Dempster tonight..
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2013 20:09:39 GMT -5
Here we go - trying to get Dempster a win, will instead line the team up for a loss..
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Post by jmei on Sept 11, 2013 20:13:45 GMT -5
Dempster is kinda getting squeezed here.
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Post by soxfanatic on Sept 11, 2013 20:16:14 GMT -5
Dempster's control is so shitty sometimes. 2.71 bb/9 last year, 3.94 bb/9 this year.
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