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Potential free agent catcher acquisitions
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 1, 2013 13:42:18 GMT -5
It's now official.. Oakland has declined their 8m option on Suzuki. He underperformed for both Washington and oakland last year, but his glove is better than Salty's and imagine his RHbat would return at a place like fenway. Another viable option and platoon partner with Ross, both righties regardless.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 1, 2013 13:45:20 GMT -5
Suzuki has a four-year line (1800+ plate appearances) of .237/.294/.357. That's not "underperforming." That's "can't hit."
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Post by sdiaz1 on Nov 1, 2013 13:47:32 GMT -5
It's now official.. Oakland has declined their 8m option on Suzuki. He underperformed for both Washington and oakland last year, but his glove is better than Salty's and imagine his RHbat would return at a place like fenway. Another viable option and platoon partner with Ross, both righties regardless. Catcher platoons do not work. Especially when one of your guys is a 37 year old with a history of concussions. Starting pitchers typically like to consistently work with the same guy throughout the season. Yes, most are not like Tim Wakefield who needed his own caddie flown in from San Diego, but the comfort of you starter is worth much more than the offensive upgrade you get batting Suzuki vs. Righties and Ross vs. Lefties.
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Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2013 13:56:55 GMT -5
Suzuki has a four-year line (1800+ plate appearances) of .237/.294/.357. That's not "underperforming." That's "can't hit." I can't figure out why his BABIP is so low. His line drive rates are only slightly below-average, his infield fly balls rates are normal, and he hits more ground balls than fly balls. He doesn't strike out much(career 11.9%), but he hits for a low average because his career BABIP (.268) is among the lowest for any player from 2006-present. EDIT: Here's a list of the batted ball data for the nine players with the lowest BABIPs during that period. Suzuki has by far the highest LD%, the third highest GB/FB, and the third lowest IFFB%. He *should* be hitting for a higher BABIP. Maybe he just makes a lot of bad contact in attempting to avoid strikeouts, a la Che-Hsuan Lin.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 1, 2013 14:38:05 GMT -5
Suzuki has a four-year line (1800+ plate appearances) of .237/.294/.357. That's not "underperforming." That's "can't hit." I can't figure out why his BABIP is so low. His line drive rates are only slightly below-average, his infield fly balls rates are normal, and he hits more ground balls than fly balls. He doesn't strike out much(career 11.9%), but he hits for a low average because his career BABIP (.268) is among the lowest for any player from 2006-present. EDIT: Here's a list of the batted ball data for the nine players with the lowest BABIPs during that period. Suzuki has by far the highest LD%, the third highest GB/FB, and the third lowest IFFB%. He *should* be hitting for a higher BABIP. Maybe he just makes a lot of bad contact in attempting to avoid strikeouts, a la Che-Hsuan Lin. He also had 11 infield hits somehow this year, so his BABIP was actually artificially inflated! I don't really know what to make of it either, but since he's done it for a such an extended period that I have to determine that it is a thing. If you tighten the list for the 10 lowest since 2010, his better LD% continues, but he's hitting a higher rate of pop-ups. One interesting thing? He gets absolutely murdered by fastballs. Maybe pitchers have gotten the book on him so they just try to blow fastballs by him, resulting in low ground ball rates (not rolling over curveballs because they aren't throwing them). It's possible that he's a bad hitter in that he can't catch major league fastballs, which is rare for a player who has gotten so many at bats. Usually players who just can't hit a fastball will fall quickly out of the league, but because Suzuki is a plus defensive catcher he's had a long enough career to turn in an extremely strange statistical profile. Just a theory. EDIT: "Blow fastballs by him" is a bad characterization because he doesn't swing and miss so much. A better description would be that they just work him with fastballs, knowing he doesn't make good enough contact with it to hurt them. Like he's the sort of hitter that the Manny Delcarmens of the world would eat up.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 1, 2013 14:46:05 GMT -5
It's now official.. Oakland has declined their 8m option on Suzuki. He underperformed for both Washington and oakland last year, but his glove is better than Salty's and imagine his RHbat would return at a place like fenway. Another viable option and platoon partner with Ross, both righties regardless. As James has pointed out, there isn't really any place for that bat to return from. It's been lost in the wilderness for a long time and there may be no road back. Dan Butler is a better option right now than Suzuki is. He's just as good defensively, and likely a better hitter. At a tenth of the cost, it's a no-brainer to bring him in as a backup rather than a $5 million+ player. Filling the catcher's position is going to be one of the more intriguing stories this off-season. The narrative may end quickly if the Sox reach a deal with Saltalamacchia, otherwise it should be good drama. Whatever happens, the chosen option will be for two, maybe three years. There's enough depth on the farm beyond that, and probably sooner. As mentioned above, Butler could step in right now, while Vazquez has reached AAA and may be knocking on the door this year. Meanwhile, Swihart is starting to come on. He'll be in Portland in 2014 and, if they decide to keep him, he may be making his bid by 2015. Those are realistic timelines and they should be part of any calculation about how the team fills the position.
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Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2013 14:46:35 GMT -5
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Post by bjb406 on Nov 1, 2013 15:23:19 GMT -5
I think too many people put too much weight into BABIP as a stat. Its only really useful in determining how much of a fluke a small sample size performance is. There are to many factors that can effect it to use it to evaluate a player. It probably just means he isn't very good at getting the ball on the meat of the bat.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Nov 1, 2013 15:48:26 GMT -5
No thank you! I think the Sox should do what they reasonably can to keep Salty. He's not the greatest, but he is far from the worst, and there really are not any good options.
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 1, 2013 16:09:26 GMT -5
Why is there almost no talk about Carlos Ruiz? He seems like a much better option than Suzuki IMO.
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Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2013 16:18:49 GMT -5
Why is there almost no talk about Carlos Ruiz? He seems like a much better option than Suzuki IMO. I have updated the title to reflect a broader discussion! But I believe the Phillies have targeted re-signing Ruiz as a priority and it appears likely that's going to be the case absent a significant overpay by another team.
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Post by nebraska4sox on Nov 1, 2013 16:22:40 GMT -5
Would still like to see the Sox give McCann a call and see if we can reasonably sign him. If not it may be time to give Vazquez and Lavarnway a shot.
Catching market is pretty weak
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 1, 2013 16:26:27 GMT -5
Would still like to see the Sox give McCann a call and see if we can reasonably sign him. If not it may be time to give Vazquez and Lavarnway a shot. Catching market is pretty weak If that's the case I much rather see Ross and Butler to begin the season. Lavarnway won't cut it IMO and Vazquez isn't ready.
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Post by nebraska4sox on Nov 1, 2013 16:35:18 GMT -5
That would be fine too, we have numerous in house options for a catcher
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 1, 2013 16:40:10 GMT -5
Why is there almost no talk about Carlos Ruiz? He seems like a much better option than Suzuki IMO. I have updated the title to reflect a broader discussion! But I believe the Phillies have targeted re-signing Ruiz as a priority and it appears likely that's going to be the case absent a significant overpay by another team. I think it's the age factor myself JMEI. A platoon of 2 guys on the far side of 30 to me just does not bode well, even if Boston does have 2 guys in Lava and Butler a phone call away at Pawtucket. To me? Giving 2-3m on a 1 year deal would be comparable to signing a guy like Ruiz. Seems like many here are against any Suzuki signing, maybe it's that they want Salty back at about any cost, or some other reason. Myself? He does an adequate job at blocking calls and calling games, throws out runners (before last year) at about the same frequency as Salty, not the best, but is fair and would be decent enough as a 1y bridge to Vazquez. Sometimes it's more about allocating the money in appropriate places and not wasting money where it doesn't belong.
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 1, 2013 17:27:37 GMT -5
linkDefinitely not likely but an option worth exploring.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 1, 2013 21:46:05 GMT -5
I offer this up for your viewing pleasure and as part of the discussion (click to blow this up). Here's the final tally for Vazquez on his K and BB rates, extended out to this year. Looks like the drop in strikeouts is real, with more walks than Ks in 2013. Is that the result of a change in approach? He finished up with a decent OPS of .771, though he's only slugging around .400 so not much consistent power yet. That said there are episodes when he gets hot and clubs the ball. See the write-up here on SoxProspects as a reference. This is one of my favorite players going back to when he first came into the system. I'm hoping he makes an appearance in a Sox uniform during the regular season in 2014.
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Post by curiousle on Nov 2, 2013 0:53:09 GMT -5
With Vazquez and Swihart coming I can't see the Sox going for a 3 year or longer deal for Salty, and it certainly appears that they won't qualify him. McCann would be an upgrade, but I don't see that happening either. Ruiz would be my pick, on a short deal. Can you trust a tandem of Butler and Ross for a season and maybe give C Vazquez some looks next September? There's nothing else in the F/A pool to choose from, and you're not taking Suzuki over Butler. This is going to get interesting.
2015 looks to be a Butler/Vazquez year, so maybe you break in Butler now. (If they won't give Salty 1 year at $14MM they won't give him a multi year or 2 year deal-not happening.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 2, 2013 1:34:58 GMT -5
I think they're going to give Butler a shot at making the team out of spring training. Let's not forget Lavarnaway, either, although I think there's a high likelihood he gets moved. It would not surprise me at all to see them carry 3 catcher types next year. Yes, I think Ross and Butler are two of those guys, but I have no idea who the third one is. I doubt the team does either, at least till the all the off-season options play out.
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Post by docman on Nov 6, 2013 8:56:53 GMT -5
I think they're going to give Butler a shot at making the team out of spring training. Let's not forget Lavarnaway, either, although I think there's a high likelihood he gets moved. It would not surprise me at all to see them carry 3 catcher types next year. Yes, I think Ross and Butler are two of those guys, but I have no idea who the third one is. I doubt the team does either, at least till the all the off-season options play out. I'd like to see the Sox get Lavarnaway some work at 1B. He's shown enough hitting ability in stretches to keep around, and being able to come in at both positions makes him valuable enough to keep on the roster, IMO.
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Post by raftsox on Nov 6, 2013 10:30:15 GMT -5
Dan Butler is a better option right now than Suzuki is. He's just as good defensively, and likely a better hitter. At a tenth of the cost, it's a no-brainer to bring him in as a backup rather than a $5 million+ player. Filling the catcher's position is going to be one of the more intriguing stories this off-season. The narrative may end quickly if the Sox reach a deal with Saltalamacchia, otherwise it should be good drama. Whatever happens, the chosen option will be for two, maybe three years. There's enough depth on the farm beyond that, and probably sooner. As mentioned above, Butler could step in right now, while Vazquez has reached AAA and may be knocking on the door this year. Meanwhile, Swihart is starting to come on. He'll be in Portland in 2014 and, if they decide to keep him, he may be making his bid by 2015. Those are realistic timelines and they should be part of any calculation about how the team fills the position. Norm, I don't disagree with you that Butler could at least hold the position down, but I don't think they'll go that route. I say this because you'll have a rookie at SS (albeit a stud); a young, and heretofore unproven 3B and potentially 500ABs from a rookie CF. I doubt the Sox go with 3 rookies starting in the lineup as well as another youngster like Middlebrooks. I think in order, these are the Sox options: 1. Re-sign Salty for 3 years. He'll probably get better offers elsewhere and walk. 2. Sign McCann. He'll get a 6 year contract elsewhere. They likely wouldn't want to go higher than 4 years. 3. Sign Ruiz. He's older so it would only take 2 years on a slight overpay to get him. I think #3 is the eventual "solution" because Ross walks after 2014 allowing you to bring up Butler for your defensive minded catcher. After Ruiz walks in 2015 they'll have a better feel for Vazquez and Swihart and can make the decision of whether one should be the primary catcher in Boston.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,838
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Post by steveofbradenton on Nov 6, 2013 10:51:31 GMT -5
I can hear everyone right now, but how about Pierzynski on a 1-year contract? He is average defensively and a tough out especially against right handers. His personality is the only think that makes me pause, but he could be an excellent bridge to Vazquez.
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Post by docman on Nov 6, 2013 11:02:45 GMT -5
Well, that's the thing, isn't it. The Sox are, for better or for worse, in the midst of a transition period. This means that they'll have to break some new guys in sooner or later. Looking closer at Butler, he's 27, so even though he's a "rookie," he's an older, presumably more mature guy, so I won't be as reluctant to plug him in as I would a 21-year-old. Plus, if this year is any indication, he wouldn't have to handle the pressure situations, because Ross can do it. The only downside I see is that you're rolling the dice that he won't be a noticeable drop off from Salty. So, maybe he's not the best available option, but I would certainly add him to the list as #4.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 6, 2013 13:09:20 GMT -5
I can hear everyone right now, but how about Pierzynski on a 1-year contract? He is average defensively and a tough out especially against right handers. His personality is the only think that makes me pause, but he could be an excellent bridge to Vazquez. Pierzynski had a .286 OBP this season against right-handers. He allowed 12 more wild pitches in one more inning than Saltalamacchia. His personality is so atrocious that even if he was good at baseball I'd be wary of signing him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 6, 2013 13:19:13 GMT -5
I can hear everyone right now, but how about Pierzynski on a 1-year contract? He is average defensively and a tough out especially against right handers. His personality is the only think that makes me pause, but he could be an excellent bridge to Vazquez. Pierzynski had a .286 OBP this season against right-handers. He allowed 12 more wild pitches in one more inning than Saltalamacchia. His personality is so atrocious that even if he was good at baseball I'd be wary of signing him. Agreed....
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