SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Potential free agent catcher acquisitions
|
Post by jdb on Nov 9, 2013 9:45:35 GMT -5
So what does everyone think about Hanigan from Cincy? Great defensively but coming off a down year at the plate. Good BB (hit 8th though) and K rates though and has a career .359 obp. His also throwing out 45+% of base runners the past two seasons and was dealing with a wrist injury this year.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 9, 2013 9:53:25 GMT -5
So what does everyone think about Hanigan from Cincy? Great defensively but coming off a down year at the plate. Good BB (hit 8th though) and K rates though and has a career .359 obp. His also throwing out 45+% of base runners the past two seasons and was dealing with a wrist injury this year. Yeah, coming off a brutal year at the plate, but he's certainly an option. Also has ties to the area, as he's from Andover.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Nov 9, 2013 10:27:25 GMT -5
Hanigan is a fine cheap fall-back option-- he's one of the best defensive catchers in the league (great at controlling the running game, blocks pitches well, one of the best pitch-framers in the league, and good at calling a game) and brings excellent plate discipline. But the Red Six won't go cheap at every position, and I think they aim higher (read: McCann or Ruiz) at first but quickly move to Hanigan if those guys get to expensive.
|
|
|
Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 9, 2013 10:36:01 GMT -5
Hanigan is a fine cheap fall-back option-- he's one of the best defensive catchers in the league (great at controlling the running game, blocks pitches well, one of the best pitch-framers in the league, and good at calling a game) and brings excellent plate discipline. But the Red Six won't go cheap at every position, and I think they aim higher (read: McCann or Ruiz) at first but quickly move to Hanigan if those guys get to expensive. They already have that solid defensive 1st guy with those attributes in Ross. It's why I think Suzuki, even with the negatives here and his down year(s) of late might make some more sense in a more positive hitting environment. he has a history of hitting better, unless Hanigan somehow is bypassed by every team and can be signed on a MiLB/split deal (doubtful). Someone like Molina (Jose) fits the same bill as does Hanigan and possibly he could be had on a split/MILB deal if the catching market goes wild. That way the team could go with backup plan of Lavarnway/Butler teamed with Ross.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Nov 9, 2013 10:53:53 GMT -5
wRC+s, Hanigan, Suzuki, and Molina counting backwards: Hanigan: 53, 88, 100, 126, 83, 96 (90 career, 86 projected by Steamer for 2014) Suzuki_: 68, 64, 90, 84, 94, 97 (86 career, 83 projected by Steamer for 2014) Molina_: 69, 81, 108, 85, 48, 51 (68 career, 75 projected by Steamer for 2014)
In what world is Suzuki the offensive-minded option while Hanigan is the Molina-esque defensive specialist?
|
|
|
Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 9, 2013 11:36:02 GMT -5
Was my statement, as from 2009-11, which granted wasn't a ton, but it was some and it was also as a FT starting catcher and not a platoon player.
Shake out Molina, Hanigan either way if they are just looking for a defense 1st guy looking for nothing else. Whichever one pops out? Going to get the exact same thing the club already has in Ross and not saying that in a negative way entirely. I like superb glove guys behind the plate, ones who can call games, hold runners on. Those kind are fine with me.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Nov 9, 2013 11:53:57 GMT -5
Even if you only look at their stats from 2009-11 (which, by the way, is a totally arbitrary time period), Hanigan was a much better offensive player than Suzuki. At least if you're looking backwards, it's really hard to come up with an argument that has Suzuki as a meaningfully better offensive player. As you alluded to, there are some argument for Suzuki that mostly rely on differentiating the context in which Suzuki and Hanigan performed. You would start with the fact that Hanigan has always hit 8th in the NL, which means he gets a lot of intentional walks and pitch-arounds that lead to "unearned" walks. You could talk about how Suzuki has hit in tougher ballparks in the tougher league and has done so in a starting role (although Suzuki hasn't been a full-time catcher since 2011). But even then, I think Hanigan is clearly the better option, especially once you stop pigeon-holing him as a "glove-first" player and realize that he's actually hit pretty well for a catcher, other than an injury-marred 2013.
|
|
|
Post by terriblehondo on Nov 9, 2013 12:43:15 GMT -5
Ruiz would be my guy. I would take Salty back also if the money was right. You know exactly what you get with him warts and all there are no surprises. Hanigan would be a good fall back option. I like McCann but I would not pay the price and draft pick for him with Vasquez and Swihart hopefully on the way.
|
|
|
Post by soxfanatic on Nov 9, 2013 13:49:15 GMT -5
1. McCann 2. Ruiz 3. Hanigan 4. Salty
|
|
|
Post by godot on Nov 9, 2013 13:57:29 GMT -5
I wonder once the bidding is over what the cost will be to sign Salty. The "common wisdom" is that McCann will draw the real big bucks, but it is a market and throw away all notions about the value of a player. Markets bring out greater fools The teams that really need a catcher who lose out on McCann may pay top dollar for Salty, unless there is less expensive alternative. And do not forget the Cubs. Theo has stated that a catcher is their top priority and he did after all trade for Salty. He may also want to jack up Salty's price so the Sox pay dearly.
|
|
|
Post by bmitchsox on Nov 9, 2013 15:42:03 GMT -5
I offer this up for your viewing pleasure and as part of the discussion (click to blow this up). Here's the final tally for Vazquez on his K and BB rates, extended out to this year. Looks like the drop in strikeouts is real, with more walks than Ks in 2013. Is that the result of a change in approach? He finished up with a decent OPS of .771, though he's only slugging around .400 so not much consistent power yet. That said there are episodes when he gets hot and clubs the ball. See the write-up here on SoxProspects as a reference. This is one of my favorite players going back to when he first came into the system. I'm hoping he makes an appearance in a Sox uniform during the regular season in 2014. I agree, he's very enticing. If we cant sign Ruiz or McCann to a 2 yr deal, I'd love to see Vazquez platoon w/ Ross! Swihart should hopefully be ready in 2 years.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
|
Post by wcp3 on Nov 9, 2013 15:43:54 GMT -5
I offer this up for your viewing pleasure and as part of the discussion (click to blow this up). Here's the final tally for Vazquez on his K and BB rates, extended out to this year. Looks like the drop in strikeouts is real, with more walks than Ks in 2013. Is that the result of a change in approach? He finished up with a decent OPS of .771, though he's only slugging around .400 so not much consistent power yet. That said there are episodes when he gets hot and clubs the ball. See the write-up here on SoxProspects as a reference. This is one of my favorite players going back to when he first came into the system. I'm hoping he makes an appearance in a Sox uniform during the regular season in 2014. I agree, he's very enticing. If we cant sign Ruiz or McCann to a 2 yr deal, I'd love to see Vazquez platoon w/ Ross! Swihart should hopefully be ready in 2 years. McCann will not be signing anywhere for 2 years.
|
|
|
Post by bmitchsox on Nov 9, 2013 15:48:28 GMT -5
The more I think about the upcoming 40-man roster crunch (which I'll summarize in a moment), the more sense I think it makes to trade Butler, selling high, to a team that needs another option as an MLB backup catcher (if not coming out of ST, by mid-year). After we non-tender Bailey and add Ranaudo, Cecchini, and Brentz we'll be at 38. Add a C, 1B, backup MI, and RHR, and trade Peavy or Demspter (or Morales) and you're at 41. Oops! (If they re-sign Ellsbury, double oops.) You could DFA Villareal, but as I mentioned earlier, he's precisely the sort of wild-card upside guy you should be looking to pick up, which is presumably why they already did so. You could DFA Kalish, but giving up on him now that he might possibly be healthy seems wasteful. You could DFA Holt, but a backup MI with options left is very useful. You could deal Morales, but keeping him at least into ST adds depth at the major league level that you might be glad you had. The one place on this 41-man roster where there's a talent logjam is Pawtucket C. While in theory Lavarnway could be the primary DH and catch a little, if you trade a catcher, then you have a 4-way OF/DH rotation with Hassan, Kalish, Brentz and Castellanos, and/or you've opened up a roster spot to fill with an interesting ml free agent (maybe even Berry, if he clears waivers). So trading Butler or Lavarnway would make the most sense, and I'd much rather sell high on Butler than low on Lavarnway; there's a decent chance that Butler is the latest manifestation of Veteran Minor League Catcher Phony Breakout Season Syndrome (q.v. Dusty Brown). Having Saltalamacchia, Ross / Vazquez, Lavarnway would clearly be an upgrade to Salty, Ross / Lavarnway, Butler, so you could hardly bitch that we would be leaving ourselves with insufficient depth. I definitely agree, sell high on Butler! He should be put into a package deal for Stanton. And there's no way they can give up on kalish now, he flashed greatness when he was healthy. Also, I have no idea why they traded for Castellanos. He hit .171 with the dodgers and plays average defense. Hope they dont waste a 40 man spot on him.
|
|
|
Post by soxfanatic on Nov 9, 2013 15:50:28 GMT -5
Also, I have no idea why they traded for Castellanos. He hit .171 with the dodgers and plays average defense. Hope they dont waste a 40 man spot on him. Big sample size too
|
|
|
Post by bmitchsox on Nov 9, 2013 15:57:15 GMT -5
This makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. First two years is the perfect bridge time to Vasquez and/or Swilhart. Second he is a huge defensive upgrade over Salty. Third he is primed for a comeback year. Clearly being in his walk year affected his head; so with any luck he comes back stronger next season since he will have a two year deal in place. Have to agree with Lavarnway too. Ruiz is looking more and more like the best Sox option with all considered. He could be shorter term, is probably as good as any free agent catcher defensively/with pitchers, AND is an on base guy. (FWIW, I think the Yankees go in the on base direction too with McCann and perhaps Choo in the OF. Unfortunately they have A LOT of spare change to get that and more done). Completely agree, Ruiz is by FAR the best choice! He plays good D and wont strike out 139 times like Salty. I wouldnt mind Salty staying if he could get that under control, but he swings at anything or watches a good pitch go by for strike 3. Il never understand him lol. We could probably get Ruiz at around 2/15, but i wouldnt mind outbidding the phillies for 2/20.
|
|
|
Post by bmitchsox on Nov 9, 2013 16:00:55 GMT -5
I agree, he's very enticing. If we cant sign Ruiz or McCann to a 2 yr deal, I'd love to see Vazquez platoon w/ Ross! Swihart should hopefully be ready in 2 years. McCann will not be signing anywhere for 2 years. Yeah I HIGHLY doubt he would, but it gives him the best chance at a ship. I could see the sox offering 2/32. Ruiz is a great fit regardless, and wouldnt be too expensive.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
|
Post by wcp3 on Nov 9, 2013 16:05:10 GMT -5
They're not wasting their time making McCann a 2-year offer. It will probably be for 5 years, and hopefully he'll reject it.
|
|
|
Post by raftsox on Nov 9, 2013 18:18:27 GMT -5
Not that I think this will happen, but trading for Mauer makes a lot of sense. The Sox can eat the contract and only have to give up some random pieces like Dempster and Wright.
|
|
|
Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 9, 2013 19:00:24 GMT -5
Not that I think this will happen, but trading for Mauer makes a lot of sense. The Sox can eat the contract and only have to give up some random pieces like Dempster and Wright. The Twins had the chance to dump the contract in the past and chose not to. Things can change but it's unlikely they want to move him, and it's really unlikely they'd take on money or dump him for spare parts.
|
|
|
Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 9, 2013 19:05:59 GMT -5
Not that I think this will happen, but trading for Mauer makes a lot of sense. The Sox can eat the contract and only have to give up some random pieces like Dempster and Wright. This would work....if those random pieces were accompanied by a king's ransom. Cecchini + Swihart + Ranaudo may get their 'interest' but doubt it would be enough and wouldn't be worth it for all parties. Mauer is worth more to the Twins than anyone else than they don't seem motivated to move him.
|
|
|
Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 9, 2013 19:07:25 GMT -5
I definitely agree, sell high on Butler! He should be put into a package deal for Stanton. And there's no way they can give up on kalish now, he flashed greatness when he was healthy. Also, I have no idea why they traded for Castellanos. He hit .171 with the dodgers and plays average defense. Hope they dont waste a 40 man spot on him. Is this tongue-in-cheek?
|
|
|
Post by azblue on Nov 9, 2013 20:18:04 GMT -5
Holt, Hassan and Castellanos are the kind of players who are easily replaced if they are DFA'd or traded.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Nov 10, 2013 0:17:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 10, 2013 8:01:51 GMT -5
Personally, I'm not getting excited about anything that says "have shown interest" at this point. The Red Sox should literally be kicking the tires on everyone who isn't a 2B or DH. One of the beat writers, I think, tweeted that yesterday, and it's very true. Check in, see what the price is, and then figure out who to target.
|
|
|
Post by sibbysisti on Nov 10, 2013 11:15:13 GMT -5
I agree, he's very enticing. If we cant sign Ruiz or McCann to a 2 yr deal, I'd love to see Vazquez platoon w/ Ross! Swihart should hopefully be ready in 2 years. McCann will not be signing anywhere for 2 years. You mean he'll sit out until 2016?
|
|
|