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Post by James Dunne on Nov 7, 2013 14:45:57 GMT -5
I think they're pretty similar. Randy Johnson supposedly couldn't stand Schilling, and Mitch Williams famously called him out for being a bad teammate when Schilling was much younger. A lot of Pierzynski's teammates rave about him - in an SI Profile last year, Chris Sale pretty much raved about him as a player: When it comes to player personalities, it's all about getting the right mix and, more importantly, making sure the talent is there. Winning breeds chemistry. My problem with the idea of signing Pierzynski is that he's just not any good.
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Post by nexus on Nov 7, 2013 15:04:34 GMT -5
Want to know something impressive about Pierzynski? He's unintentionally walked 2 times dating back to 6.29.13, or the last 287 plate appearances. That's pretty awesome.
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Post by ray88h66 on Nov 7, 2013 16:12:25 GMT -5
AJ has won every where he's been. I don't care if he's a jerk. Guy plays 130 games a year every year and his teams win. If that's bad at baseball I want more bad baseball players.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Nov 7, 2013 17:00:41 GMT -5
AJ has won every where he's been. I don't care if he's a jerk. Guy plays 130 games a year every year and his teams win. If that's bad at baseball I want more bad baseball players. .272/.297/.425/.722 .273/.338/.466/.804 Who sounds like a bigger winner? You know, JD and Stephen have won WS with the Red Sox. Maybe we should sign a 1st or 2nd cousin to come to because the Drews have a "winning tradition" in Boston. DiceK won a ring in '07, hell Beckett has 2 (1 with the Sox). Perhaps we should bring them both back?
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Post by ray88h66 on Nov 7, 2013 17:06:23 GMT -5
AJ has won every where he's been. I don't care if he's a jerk. Guy plays 130 games a year every year and his teams win. If that's bad at baseball I want more bad baseball players. .272/.297/.425/.722 .273/.338/.466/.804 Who sounds like a bigger winner? You know, JD and Stephen have won WS with the Red Sox. Maybe we should sign a 1st or 2nd cousin to come to because the Drews have a "winning tradition" in Boston. DiceK won a ring in '07, hell Beckett has 2 (1 with the Sox). Perhaps we should bring them both back? I get the point. I'm looking for a one year answer at catcher. And he's a bad guy isn't a good enough reason not to go with him. And bad baseball player he's not. Guess you didn't like my he's a winner point. Is he a bad baseball player?
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 7, 2013 18:00:25 GMT -5
Weren't there some Nick Hundley SD rumors out there when Ross was out? After hearing Farrell talk about the C situation and the fact Salty was beat out by Ross in the WS I think we might go defensive first here. Farrell also said last week they view C as a tandem position so I hope that rules out given McCann a five year deal. I can see McCann's allure given his power numbers, but I wouldn't want to go for five with him either. I'd sooner sign a guy for two-years, tops, even if it means settling for a lesser bat. Agree. Padres were a team kind of followed a bit, or at least watched some this past year more than normal. Hundley didn't look good to me at all when saw him. Salty looked like Babe Ruth in fact compared to him and Hundley is a FA after the year anyway. Bad medicine to give up much of anything for a catcher whose bat is going downhill and about to walk. Team already has Ross like that as a defensive 1st guy and there are several inexpensive FA catcher types on the market who fit that bill.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 7, 2013 19:59:38 GMT -5
.272/.297/.425/.722 .273/.338/.466/.804 Who sounds like a bigger winner? You know, JD and Stephen have won WS with the Red Sox. Maybe we should sign a 1st or 2nd cousin to come to because the Drews have a "winning tradition" in Boston. DiceK won a ring in '07, hell Beckett has 2 (1 with the Sox). Perhaps we should bring them both back? I get the point. I'm looking for a one year answer at catcher. And he's a bad guy isn't a good enough reason not to go with him. And bad baseball player he's not. Guess you didn't like my he's a winner point. Is he a bad baseball player?Yes. He's been league average, or better, just once in the last 7 years, and twice in the last 10.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 7, 2013 20:42:45 GMT -5
AJ has won every where he's been. I don't care if he's a jerk. Guy plays 130 games a year every year and his teams win. If that's bad at baseball I want more bad baseball players. I'm wrong a lot so don't take this personally, but everything about this post is wrong other then you not caring he's a jerk. He's been in the playoffs 4 of 14 years and not since 2008. He was on BAD CHW teams from 2009-2012 and Texas just had their worst year in several years. He doesn't fit what the Sox like in a lineup, low OBP among other things. He's an offense first catcher who just has a down year in a hitters park and he's old.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 7, 2013 23:32:53 GMT -5
.272/.297/.425/.722 .273/.338/.466/.804 Who sounds like a bigger winner? You know, JD and Stephen have won WS with the Red Sox. Maybe we should sign a 1st or 2nd cousin to come to because the Drews have a "winning tradition" in Boston. DiceK won a ring in '07, hell Beckett has 2 (1 with the Sox). Perhaps we should bring them both back? I get the point. I'm looking for a one year answer at catcher. And he's a bad guy isn't a good enough reason not to go with him. And bad baseball player he's not. Guess you didn't like my he's a winner point. Is he a bad baseball player? Yes, he's bad. The Sox can do better than him, even in a stop gap situation. The guy's an out machine.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 7, 2013 23:49:46 GMT -5
I like the idea of going with Pierzynsky if the deal is right. I think the order of preference probably goes like this:
Option A: Ruiz at $5-7 mil per year at most / 2 year deal Option B: Pierzynsky at $4.5 mil per year / 2 year deal. Option C: McCann: 4 years at $14 mil per ( probably not going to happen ) Option D: Salty at 2 years and $9 mil per year ( probably not going to happen )
I think we are as likely to have a Pierzynsky as any of the others, and at the above levels I'm fine with that. My understanding is that his teammates generally liked him. Opposing teams didn't.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 8, 2013 7:20:16 GMT -5
Pierzynky for 2 years? Uh, no thank you.
I'm fine with bringing in a player or two who doesn't fit the "great clubhouse guy" mold, but only if he doesn't suck royally at baseball. AJ has never been known for his defense and gets on base at an embarrassingly low clip. Basically the only thing he is at this point is a name.
Pass.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 8, 2013 8:21:19 GMT -5
Option A: Ruiz at $5-7 mil per year at most / 2 year deal This makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. First two years is the perfect bridge time to Vasquez and/or Swilhart. Second he is a huge defensive upgrade over Salty. Third he is primed for a comeback year. Clearly being in his walk year affected his head; so with any luck he comes back stronger next season since he will have a two year deal in place.
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 8, 2013 8:31:12 GMT -5
Option A: Ruiz at $5-7 mil per year at most / 2 year deal This makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. First two years is the perfect bridge time to Vasquez and/or Swilhart. Second he is a huge defensive upgrade over Salty. Third he is primed for a comeback year. Clearly being in his walk year affected his head; so with any luck he comes back stronger next season since he will have a two year deal in place. Have to agree with Lavarnway too. Ruiz is looking more and more like the best Sox option with all considered. He could be shorter term, is probably as good as any free agent catcher defensively/with pitchers, AND is an on base guy. (FWIW, I think the Yankees go in the on base direction too with McCann and perhaps Choo in the OF. Unfortunately they have A LOT of spare change to get that and more done).
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2013 8:57:30 GMT -5
Ruiz would be great at that price, but he is a priority for the Phillies (and has said he'd like to stay in Philadelphia), and is also being targeted by the Yankees and Rockies, among others. Would you go as high as $10m per year on a two-year deal? I probably would, assuming that McCann and Saltalamacchia's markets also blow up. Ruiz could easily bounce back and return to the 3.5 fWAR player he averaged between 2009-12, and he'd be an ideal bridge to the younger catchers in the system. Fortunately, Amaro seems to want Ruiz to commit to Philadelphia right away or the Phillies will move on, which increases the chances of a team like Boston stealing him away.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 8, 2013 9:34:31 GMT -5
If that thought was ever in the back of the Sox FO minds for the to be 35YO catcher.. Why didn't they just offer Salty the 14m QO as he is just going to be 29? If the price for Ruiz and all catching is inflated that much, Salty would have figured out early enough to refuse the QO.
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2013 9:43:39 GMT -5
For what it's worth, MLBTR has Ruiz signing a two year, $14m deal and Fangraphs Crowdsourcing has him at two years, $16.8m.
Also, there's an easy argument to be made that Ruiz is just a better player than Saltalamacchia, even with Ruiz having a down 2013 and Saltalamacchia coming off his best year. Ruiz is the better defensive player and projects to get on base much more.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 8, 2013 9:50:59 GMT -5
Trying to stay away from anti Salty posts lately, but yes. I would agree with that, or at least until the 2013 season as long as Ruiz's last year was not a precursor to a spiral downward.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 8, 2013 10:58:33 GMT -5
Fortunately, Amaro seems to want Ruiz to commit to Philadelphia right away or the Phillies will move onOk, when I read this, this is what went through my head: Ruben Amaro: "If you don't agree now, I'll totally sign someone worse! And then what will you do? Don't believe me? Have you seen my record?! Don't think I won't do it!!"
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 8, 2013 12:17:48 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal Source: #Reds sign free-agent C Brayan Pena to two-year contract, likely to move Hanigan. First reported by ESPN @enrique_Rojas1.
Hanigan could make an interesting fallback option if things go south. He was bad in 2013 and that was mostly caused by a BABIP much lower than his career averages. He had a career high WAR of 2.7 in 2012. Color me interested.
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 8, 2013 12:43:31 GMT -5
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Post by theolearyfactor on Nov 8, 2013 14:47:09 GMT -5
As others have stated, I think Ruiz presents an ideal opportunity to provide a bridge until Vazquez/Swihart are ready to start in the bigs. While Salty was my least favorite player on this year's team once Ciriaco was cut, I think a short term contract would be appealing as well. The only problem is, this is Salty's one chance to break the bank on a long-term deal. A Butler/Ross duo seems redundant to me. Hanigan might present the same redundancy. With that being said, I love his k:bb ratios but he has only played over 100 games in a season once. Can we pencil him in as a starter and hope he gets back to that .270 average?
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Post by p23w on Nov 8, 2013 22:35:36 GMT -5
As others have stated, I think Ruiz presents an ideal opportunity to provide a bridge until Vazquez/Swihart are ready to start in the bigs. While Salty was my least favorite player on this year's team once Ciriaco was cut, I think a short term contract would be appealing as well. The only problem is, this is Salty's one chance to break the bank on a long-term deal. A Butler/Ross duo seems redundant to me. Hanigan might present the same redundancy. With that being said, I love his k:bb ratios but he has only played over 100 games in a season once. Can we pencil him in as a starter and hope he gets back to that .270 average? I agree with all of the above (except about Salty being my least favorite).
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Post by taftreign on Nov 8, 2013 23:35:37 GMT -5
I would easily go 10 per on Ruiz. Decent catching is hard to find and Ruiz has a solid track record. Doesn't seem to have any significant splits vs LH and RH. Improves the club defensively. Seems he would be a solid clubhouse guy. He really does seem to be a fit in terms of who the club has recently targeted. I think he's the best value on the catching market. McCann is the better player overall but if his price is in the 18 mil + range, which would not surprise me, on anything more than a 4 year deal Ruiz is clearly the best option unless you believe McCann can convert from C to play 1B mixed with some DH over the next few years as Swihart and/or Vazquez become ready in which you can argue McCann's contract would hold value throughout.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 8, 2013 23:47:10 GMT -5
It looks like I've underestimated Ruiz's marketability. I just looked at his numbers a little and put in the PED factor and his age. And catchers often do not make as much. I'd be surprised still if it's 10 mil a year but maybe $8 mil a year? $8.5?
Part of this though is that we probably want a short term deal and Pierzynsky probably fits that roll as well as many, particularly when you factor in the cost. We still have limited cash available and I don't think they spend it much on the catcher slot. Just my guess.
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Post by peskypole302 on Nov 9, 2013 2:18:26 GMT -5
It looks like I've underestimated Ruiz's marketability. I just looked at his numbers a little and put in the PED factor and his age. And catchers often do not make as much. I'd be surprised still if it's 10 mil a year but maybe $8 mil a year? $8.5? Part of this though is that we probably want a short term deal and Pierzynsky probably fits that roll as well as many, particularly when you factor in the cost. We still have limited cash available and I don't think they spend it much on the catcher slot. Just my guess. Ruiz was suspended for Adderall, which isn't really a PED and especially not comparable to HGH or steroids. It is a banned substance due to being a controlled substance in the amphetamine family but comparing his suspension to a Braun or Rodriguez (likely) is way off.
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