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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 18, 2013 23:16:34 GMT -5
The talent isn't comparable so salaries shouldn't be. That's like saying the best players in the MLS should make what the guys in the EPL get. Excuse me but that is a ridiculous statement. The best player in Japan is quite likely an all star here. Ever hear of Ichiro? Darvish, Kuroda, Koji...etc? It's probably unintentional, and I don't mean to offend you, but to me that is accidental rascism. For us to think they are inherently worse players. I think the situation is largely the same with many people's attitudes toward Cuban players. How many Cuban and Japanese players do we have to see before we consider that they actually have some talent over there. Maybe if we have to put the level of play into a category we come up with A ball...etc but there are a whole lot of players in both leagues that are quite likely all stars in mlb. And the top paid player in Japan is a probable all star in mlb. |
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 18, 2013 23:18:17 GMT -5
None of those players are playing in Japan...
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2013 23:29:22 GMT -5
Your so misplaced with where you are coming from it probably doesn't even warrant a response. If you can't understand the differences between different leagues and think a guy playing in Japan should be payed like a guy playing in Major League Baseball then I don't know what to tell you.
MLS players get paid less because the league is inferior. If a top talent comes up into the MLS, they have to move on to a bigger league like the EPL because there is more talent there (overall) which means there is more money in the league (richer teams) to spend on player salaries.
And before you tell me Japanese owners have as much money as US owners, that's irrelevant. It's the money in the league itself.
If anyone here is being borderline racist or insensitive, it's those who are comparing the situation of well paid athletes who have choices to slavery.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2013 23:31:20 GMT -5
To reiterate the less talent comment was in reference to the league as a whole. Which is obvious and indisputable. Washed up MLB players go to Japan and dominate - break records.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 18, 2013 23:36:51 GMT -5
Tell me something actually relevant which supports that position.
The Japanese system restricts trade, severely restricts the potential salaries these guys can make. That's why they are in the USA after waiting a considerable period. They don't have the opportunity to make more money in Japan. They are effectively indentured servants in Japan. They should strongly consider just signing out of high school with a US team, but we effectively collude to stop that from happening. We are allies with the slave traders.
They have big stadiums in Japan. The have big TV deals. The market could support higher salaries.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 18, 2013 23:39:11 GMT -5
Signing Tanaka is going to require a minimum of $120 mil to get done, but in Japan he's worth $4 mil, because it's an inferior league. Ok. I get it.
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Post by bigpupp on Nov 18, 2013 23:42:32 GMT -5
Signing Tanaka is going to require a minimum of $120 mil to get done, but in Japan he's worth $4 mil, because it's an inferior league. Ok. I get it. And Trout got paid 500k last year... Angels are damn slave drivers! |
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Post by Gwell55 on Nov 18, 2013 23:44:10 GMT -5
Signing Tanaka is going to require a minimum of $120 mil to get done, but in Japan he's worth $4 mil, because it's an inferior league. Ok. I get it. This is getting beyond ridicules isn't it? Trout is worth 510,000 here and Miggy is worth 22M so what is the argument is 4M isn't fair to play in a league that sets it's own boundaries and the players have a right when they are drafted into it to accept or not! That is not slavery nor should it be claimed as such either. |
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 18, 2013 23:52:19 GMT -5
Mike trout is 22 years old. If he had Tanaka's service time he'd be making $20 mil plus. And he wouldn't have to leave $70 mil on the table in his next contract for the Angels to snap up.
It's unfair and mlb is colluding to perpetuate it out of their own self interest. They are the guys holding the gavel at the slave trading block, whether it's gold plated or not.
Maybe they will actually do something about it this year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2013 23:56:40 GMT -5
A Japanese player waits the same time and often less then a US player drafted out of HS (or college) to become a free agent.
They get paid less even after they are free to leave because that's their market value. They aren't as good (as a group). You want evidence. If not you'd see a plethora of Japanese players flocking to the US in their late 20's. Stop acting like the talent in the NPL is even remotely close to that of MLB. If that's where you are at then this isn't even worth discussing.
MLB takes a kid out of HS then has him in minor league ball making peanuts for 5 or more years. Then controls him for 6 more years before he's a free agent. 3 of those at the major league minimum. The vast majority of them get modest arbitration raises.
Tanaka is 24 made over 4 million and is 2 years from FA for his age 27 season.
Never once has anyone, including me, ever insinuated that there isn't talent around the world. Doesn't make the leagues comparable. Nava played Indy ball, maybe all those guys are getting screwed too.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2013 23:59:23 GMT -5
Mike trout is 22 years old. If he had Tanaka's service time he'd be making $20 mil plus. And he wouldn't have to leave $70 mil on the table in his next contract for the Angels to snap up. It's unfair and mlb is colluding to perpetuate it out of their own self interest. They are the guys holding the gavel at the slave trading block, whether it's gold plated or not. Maybe they will actually do something about it this year. He would have Tanaka's service time, at the same age, if MLB counted the time in the minors. |
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Post by jmei on Nov 18, 2013 23:59:46 GMT -5
The Japanese system restricts trade, severely restricts the potential salaries these guys can make. That's why they are in the USA after waiting a considerable period. They don't have the opportunity to make more money in Japan. They are effectively indentured servants in Japan. They should strongly consider just signing out of high school with a US team, but we effectively collude to stop that from happening. We are allies with the slave traders. Seriously, man. This type of behavior (collusion meant to reduce player salaries and inhibit player movement) is intrinsic to organized sports. The posting system is no different than the 30 teams colluding to organize the draft (and placing limits on the bonuses players can receive through the draft) or placing players under team control for the first six years of their career at salaries significantly below free-market rates. |
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 19, 2013 0:03:25 GMT -5
New topic. I think Seattle might be a major player for Tanaka. NYC and Seattle. If Seattle can sneak into the playoffs, they might actually have a chance to win it with that rotation. If I were Seattle I would strongly consider a huge bid for Tanaka. Forget about Ellsbury and try to round out the rest of the team with value players as Boston did last year.
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Post by Gwell55 on Nov 19, 2013 0:04:56 GMT -5
Mike trout is 22 years old. If he had Tanaka's service time he'd be making $20 mil plus. And he wouldn't have to leave $70 mil on the table in his next contract for the Angels to snap up. It's unfair and mlb is colluding to perpetuate it out of their own self interest. They are the guys holding the gavel at the slave trading block, whether it's gold plated or not. Maybe they will actually do something about it this year. And if Tanaka would of started here with the Marlins or Houston with a guaranteed 2 years+ in the minors he would be making maybe 4-8 million in a higher salaried league so he still isn't any more picked on that any other MLB pampered young gun. And life would go on... |
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 19, 2013 0:06:57 GMT -5
Mike trout is 22 years old. If he had Tanaka's service time he'd be making $20 mil plus. And he wouldn't have to leave $70 mil on the table in his next contract for the Angels to snap up. It's unfair and mlb is colluding to perpetuate it out of their own self interest. They are the guys holding the gavel at the slave trading block, whether it's gold plated or not. Maybe they will actually do something about it this year. He would have Tanaka's service time, at the same age, if MLB counted the time in the minors. I'm pretty sure that's not true. Trout didn't spend much time in the minors. 5 years total in pro ball. Tanaka has spent 7 years in professional baseball apparently. I'd say nice try but it wasn't. Keep tap dancing though. |
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Post by jmei on Nov 19, 2013 0:14:10 GMT -5
The worst you could say is that at least in the U.S., the draft/free agent system is collectively bargained for by the player's union (although the player's union does a terrible job of representing future players-- see, e.g., their lack of opposition to draft bonus capping. There is also no unionization of minor league players, which keeps minor league salaries low and conditions poor). In NPB, there is no CBA, and the rules of the games are issued for the most part by the owners unilaterally. Still, there is a robust player's union, and in 2004 NPB players had a brief in-season strike to protest a haphazard merger between the Central League and the Pacific League.
That said, you didn't know any of the above, so please just stop.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 19, 2013 0:16:14 GMT -5
The Japanese system restricts trade, severely restricts the potential salaries these guys can make. That's why they are in the USA after waiting a considerable period. They don't have the opportunity to make more money in Japan. They are effectively indentured servants in Japan. They should strongly consider just signing out of high school with a US team, but we effectively collude to stop that from happening. We are allies with the slave traders. Seriously, man. This type of behavior (collusion meant to reduce player salaries and inhibit player movement) is intrinsic to organized sports. The posting system is no different than the 30 teams colluding to organize the draft (and placing limits on the bonuses players can receive through the draft) or placing players under team control for the first six years of their career at salaries significantly below free-market rates. It is different in several respects. The main difference being that we don't even try to sign these guys out of high school. We collude to not even give then that opportunity. In Cuba we generally can't do that but in most other countries we do offer that opportunity. Venezuela, the DR, Puerto Rico...etc. And when they do actually have the opportunity to first come to the US, it is one year later than our 6 years of service time ( if I'm doing the math correctly ), and they have to pay the gate keeper a huge chunk of their potential earnings during that contract year. A huge chunk in the biggest opportunity they probably ever have to make money. And why is it? It's because the are Japanese. We collude with the Japanese owners to restrict trade more with Japanese players than any other players in the world. Even some Taiwanese players sign out of high school as I understand it. I imagine Korean players are more similar to the situation in Japan. There are bigger moral outrages in the world but it's patently unfair to Japanese players. They are 2nd class citizens in the US. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 19, 2013 0:20:20 GMT -5
He would have Tanaka's service time, at the same age, if MLB counted the time in the minors. I'm pretty sure that's not true. Trout didn't spend much time in the minors. 5 years total in pro ball. Tanaka has spent 7 years in professional baseball apparently. I'd say nice try but it wasn't. Keep tap dancing though. He's 4 years of pro ball and 3 years younger then tanaka (based on age of season) so 4 + 3 =... |
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 19, 2013 0:21:48 GMT -5
Mike trout is 22 years old. If he had Tanaka's service time he'd be making $20 mil plus. And he wouldn't have to leave $70 mil on the table in his next contract for the Angels to snap up. It's unfair and mlb is colluding to perpetuate it out of their own self interest. They are the guys holding the gavel at the slave trading block, whether it's gold plated or not. Maybe they will actually do something about it this year. And if Tanaka would of started here with the Marlins or Houston with a guaranteed 2 years+ in the minors he would be making maybe 4-8 million in a higher salaried league so he still isn't any more picked on that any other MLB pampered young gun. And life would go on... I'm sorry but no again. With 5 years of mlb service time he would be in his 2nd year of arbitration 2 years ago year as a probabl super 2 and with the numbers he has put up been in Lincecum territory several years ago. |
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 19, 2013 0:25:26 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that's not true. Trout didn't spend much time in the minors. 5 years total in pro ball. Tanaka has spent 7 years in professional baseball apparently. I'd say nice try but it wasn't. Keep tap dancing though. He's 4 years of pro ball and 3 years younger then tanaka (based on age of season) so 4 + 3 =... Trout has 5 years of pro ball. 2009-2013. And he's 22. Tanaka is 25. 2 additional years dude. Imagine what Trout will be making in 2 years. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 19, 2013 0:26:05 GMT -5
By math correctly are you referring to players from Japan getting posted by their owners after their first 7 years of service? So one extra year then the 6 it takes a major leaguer to get to free agency? Trying to understand...
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 19, 2013 0:28:06 GMT -5
Anyway, as amazed as you guys seem to be at my perspective, I am flabergasted that more of you didn't see my point. Yet again. Not a single one of you.
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Post by jmei on Nov 19, 2013 0:28:39 GMT -5
The reason players get paid less in Japan than they do in the U.S. isn't due to collusion, it's basic economics. There is less revenue generated by the NPB than in MLB, so the slice players get is smaller. It's the same reason a barber in Nairobi gets paid less than a barber in Manhattan. If you're this fired up about the posting system, you should be WAY, WAY more fired up about the immigration restrictions that literally every sovereign country uses to restrict free movement of labor (an argument I would be with you on, by the way).
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 19, 2013 0:36:56 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 19, 2013 10:43:32 GMT -5
Anyway, as amazed as you guys seem to be at my perspective, I am flabergasted that more of you didn't see my point. Yet again. Not a single one of you. So either everyone is dumb for universally not getting your point, or... |
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