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Jan 2014-June 2015 International Signings
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Post by taftreign on Jul 2, 2014 14:24:46 GMT -5
Last year was the beards, next season it's . . .
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 2, 2014 14:44:21 GMT -5
So I really have no clue about the International signing rules. I understand that we were allotted a certain amount of money to spend and we have already surpassed it. So what are the penalties we will be incurring for going over?
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Post by widewordofsport on Jul 2, 2014 14:47:36 GMT -5
I don't know how this works, but hypothetically, if there's a draft next year or soon (where you are only limited to (lets say) 1 top 45 prospect based on pick order, there may or may not be someone else worth $300k+. Stacking the deck this year and basically giving up the 1st rounder if the Sox think a draft is coming may not be a bad idea.
Someone with a greater understanding of the process and/or no day job feel free to correct me.
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 2, 2014 14:48:53 GMT -5
So I really have no clue about the International signing rules. I understand that we were allotted a certain amount of money to spend and we have already surpassed it. So what are the penalties we will be incurring for going over? See the haircut, above.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 2, 2014 15:07:20 GMT -5
So I really have no clue about the International signing rules. I understand that we were allotted a certain amount of money to spend and we have already surpassed it. So what are the penalties we will be incurring for going over? They won't be able to sign anyone over 300k for the next two signing periods. Plus what Steve said.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 2, 2014 15:10:11 GMT -5
I don't know how this works, but hypothetically, if there's a draft next year or soon (where you are only limited to (lets say) 1 top 45 prospect based on pick order, there may or may not be someone else worth $300k+. Stacking the deck this year and basically giving up the 1st rounder if the Sox think a draft is coming may not be a bad idea. Someone with a greater understanding of the process and/or no day job feel free to correct me. There won't be a draft next year, maybe the year after. But yes if there is a draft the Red Sox probably wouldn't be able to get a guy like Espinoza or Acosta let alone both.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 2, 2014 15:27:17 GMT -5
Ben Badler ?@benbadler 40s Red Sox are already well over their bonus pool, add a Dominican shortstop for $300,000 (via @dplbaseball): bit.ly/VFZJoz
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 2, 2014 15:33:18 GMT -5
So I really have no clue about the International signing rules. I understand that we were allotted a certain amount of money to spend and we have already surpassed it. So what are the penalties we will be incurring for going over? They won't be able to sign anyone over 300k for the next two signing periods. Plus what Steve said. So for the next two years they will not be able to give any one individual over 300k and they will still have a max amount of total money to stay under? Considering the money they gave to the top two guys, it seems like a very significant penalty, but if they believe these guys are the real deal then I definitely think it is worth it to take the shot.
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Jul 2, 2014 15:34:47 GMT -5
This is the Red Sox day today.
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Post by dfwsox on Jul 2, 2014 16:34:05 GMT -5
Vinny boombaaaaats. I love it. This kid seams interesting but love the haircut. Excited about the pitching we have got here.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 2, 2014 22:49:21 GMT -5
So I really have no clue about the International signing rules. I understand that we were allotted a certain amount of money to spend and we have already surpassed it. So what are the penalties we will be incurring for going over? See the haircut, above. The haircut is the agent. The fat guy is the IFA. Badler is my favorite international analyst but this is a bit of a stretch: Ben Badler ?@benbadler 1m Indians signed a Dominican pitcher for $100,000 who trained with the father-in-law of Pedro Martinez bit.ly/1jLGpev
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 2, 2014 23:09:01 GMT -5
This is from the mlb.com site:
According to industry sources, New York agreed to terms with several highly regarded international prospects, including shortstop Dermis Garcia, ranked No. 1 on MLB.com's Top 30 International Prospects list for a $3 million signing bonus, along with Dominican third baseman Nelson Gomez (ranked No. 2) for $2.25 million, Dominican outfielder Juan DeLeon (No. 5) for $2 million, Venezuelan outfielders Jonathan Amundaray (No. 7) for $1.5 million and Antonio Arias (No. 9) for $800,000.
Additionally, sources indicate the Yankees also agreed to terms with Korean shortstop Hyo-Jun Park, ranked No. 13, for $1.1 million, along with Venezuelan shortstops Wilkerman Garcia (No. 14) for $1.35 million and Diego Castillo (No. 16) for $750,000. The Yankees also agreed to terms with Venezuelan catcher Miguel Flames, ranked No. 25, for $1 million, and they added outfielder Frederick Cuevas from the Dominican Republic for $300,000.
In all, the Yankees spent more than $14 million on those players alone.
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Post by zil on Jul 2, 2014 23:46:39 GMT -5
This is from the mlb.com site: According to industry sources, New York agreed to terms with several highly regarded international prospects, including shortstop Dermis Garcia, ranked No. 1 on MLB.com's Top 30 International Prospects list for a $3 million signing bonus, along with Dominican third baseman Nelson Gomez (ranked No. 2) for $2.25 million, Dominican outfielder Juan DeLeon (No. 5) for $2 million, Venezuelan outfielders Jonathan Amundaray (No. 7) for $1.5 million and Antonio Arias (No. 9) for $800,000. Additionally, sources indicate the Yankees also agreed to terms with Korean shortstop Hyo-Jun Park, ranked No. 13, for $1.1 million, along with Venezuelan shortstops Wilkerman Garcia (No. 14) for $1.35 million and Diego Castillo (No. 16) for $750,000. The Yankees also agreed to terms with Venezuelan catcher Miguel Flames, ranked No. 25, for $1 million, and they added outfielder Frederick Cuevas from the Dominican Republic for $300,000. In all, the Yankees spent more than $14 million on those players alone. This shouldn't bother anyone. I trust Cherington and company to outmaneuver Cashman's staff when it comes to landing and developing the best amateur talent.
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Post by slyfox on Jul 3, 2014 0:01:22 GMT -5
"In all, the Yankees spent more than $14 million on those players alone."
Accounting the 100% tax that they have to pay for most of the money (because they went over the cap), they'll be spending upwards of 20 million dollars for 10 16 year olds.
Looking at the list SteveDillard posted earlier (i dont know how to link it into the reply), Rafael Rodriguez (-.5 bWar), Wily Mo (-1.2 bWar), Joel Guzman (-.5 bWar), Miguel Cabrera (57.2 bWar), Jesus Montero (.3 bWar), Jurickson Profar (-.1 bWar), Luis Sardinas (-.2 bWar), Carlos Martinez (-.6 bWar), Fernando Martinez (-1.4 bWar), Willy Aybar (2.7 bWar), Carlos Triunfel (-.6 bWar) are the only players to reach the MLB. (I understand that players like Profar, Sardinas, Martinez, and even Montero will have more impressive stats a few years from now). Acknowledging that this is an imperfect analysis of career returns but also realizing that its the best we have at this point, the 10 players to make the majors (excluding Miguel Cabrera) delivered an astounding -2.1 combined career bWar to this point. And just to stress, these are the 'good' ones, the ones who actually made it to the big leagues.
Additionally, it is not fair to evaluate just those players as I believe that scouting in Latin America and throughout the world has improved in the past years so I will also name the players who are considered top prospects (I am by no means a prospects expert so apologies if i miss one or two): Miguel Sano, Gary Sanchez (overrated but still a top 100 prospect at start of year), Adalberto Mondesi, Dorssys Paulino (has really struggled past two years), and then probably a few of the guys from last year or 2012 but its just too soon to tell yet.
I also realize every player is different and its really unfair to use past results to put down current prospects but the track record does show that the Yankees just spent 20 million on a sector of the game (high bonus international prospects) that is so unpredictable that it has only produced 2 players with career bWars currently above 1. I just don't think that the way the yankees went about this is prudent financially, all that wise from a baseball standpoint (especially considering Cashman could be out of town in 6 or 7 years when all these guys could possibly be knocking on the door), or polite (could speed up a push for international draft).
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 3, 2014 2:54:27 GMT -5
This is from the mlb.com site: According to industry sources, New York agreed to terms with several highly regarded international prospects, including shortstop Dermis Garcia, ranked No. 1 on MLB.com's Top 30 International Prospects list for a $3 million signing bonus, along with Dominican third baseman Nelson Gomez (ranked No. 2) for $2.25 million, Dominican outfielder Juan DeLeon (No. 5) for $2 million, Venezuelan outfielders Jonathan Amundaray (No. 7) for $1.5 million and Antonio Arias (No. 9) for $800,000. Additionally, sources indicate the Yankees also agreed to terms with Korean shortstop Hyo-Jun Park, ranked No. 13, for $1.1 million, along with Venezuelan shortstops Wilkerman Garcia (No. 14) for $1.35 million and Diego Castillo (No. 16) for $750,000. The Yankees also agreed to terms with Venezuelan catcher Miguel Flames, ranked No. 25, for $1 million, and they added outfielder Frederick Cuevas from the Dominican Republic for $300,000. In all, the Yankees spent more than $14 million on those players alone. So there's no way they can get under right?This is what a lot of people, myself included, wanted the sox to do for they installed the cap/slotting system. I still wish we had. As far as what the yankees paid for a bunch of 16 year olds, it really only takes a hit with one for it to be worth it.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 3, 2014 3:59:08 GMT -5
This is from the mlb.com site: According to industry sources, New York agreed to terms with several highly regarded international prospects, including shortstop Dermis Garcia, ranked No. 1 on MLB.com's Top 30 International Prospects list for a $3 million signing bonus, along with Dominican third baseman Nelson Gomez (ranked No. 2) for $2.25 million, Dominican outfielder Juan DeLeon (No. 5) for $2 million, Venezuelan outfielders Jonathan Amundaray (No. 7) for $1.5 million and Antonio Arias (No. 9) for $800,000. Additionally, sources indicate the Yankees also agreed to terms with Korean shortstop Hyo-Jun Park, ranked No. 13, for $1.1 million, along with Venezuelan shortstops Wilkerman Garcia (No. 14) for $1.35 million and Diego Castillo (No. 16) for $750,000. The Yankees also agreed to terms with Venezuelan catcher Miguel Flames, ranked No. 25, for $1 million, and they added outfielder Frederick Cuevas from the Dominican Republic for $300,000. In all, the Yankees spent more than $14 million on those players alone. So there's no way they can get under right?This is what a lot of people, myself included, wanted the sox to do for they installed the cap/slotting system. I still wish we had. As far as what the yankees paid for a bunch of 16 year olds, it really only takes a hit with one for it to be worth it. The other way to view it is that when the dust clears, the Sox will still have a strong system and the MFY won't. At season's end they are still not likely to be a top 20 farm. Curious what Sabermetric signaling agents are. Those are people who scout for various deductibles.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 3, 2014 9:37:09 GMT -5
Yankees are jerk faces...
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 3, 2014 9:58:50 GMT -5
Sure it's been beaten to death, but the facts remain that Boston, KC and Pittsburgh (Huntington years) were the main ones who used the pre CBA years the last 10+ years or so to there advantage. Large market teams, such as NY (both) and Philly, both of which had systems screaming for a rebuild ignored spending when they knew the system was going to get overhauled. They all got what they richly deserved.
Spending so much this year and paying what will probably be a large penalty when the upcoming IF draft is implemented is another case of short sightedness and 3 years to late to the game.
It's really not hard to knock every large market's approach the their farm system, other than Boston and St. Louis and Boston was in that heap as well until the Duquette years.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 3, 2014 10:20:14 GMT -5
I find it interesting the Yankees and Red Sox blew the signing pool out of the water. Their(both teams) way of saying go ahead and put your international draft in now. We can't sign the elite players for 2 years anyway.
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 3, 2014 11:00:42 GMT -5
The Yankees have always set the market for International signings, with Montero, Sanchez, and others. They just have not become the impact players, but it is not for lack of the Yankees using their financial might in the IFA market. Combine that with a lack of draft picks (due to signing players), and poor big money decisions in the first round (high priced first rounders like Brackman) and little spending on tough sign picks after the first round, and they have a bad system.
On the Sox's curious decision to go over the cap, but not blow the market, am I correct that the IFA age is 23 years old. Are there any Cuban sub-23 year olds who the Sox might want to sign and therefore would be over the cap anyway?
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Post by nexus on Jul 3, 2014 11:09:05 GMT -5
The other way to view it is that when the dust clears, the Sox will still have a strong system and the MFY won't. At season's end they are still not likely to be a top 20 farm. They're not great, but they have built a solid foundation this year with the emergence of Refsynder and nice strides made by the 2013 1st round trio. Severino would be the 2nd best pitcher in the Red Sox system behind Owens. Add all of the talent they just signed and I'd say they're in the middle of the pack.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 3, 2014 11:39:00 GMT -5
Lets not forget drafting players Like Garret Cole that they didn't sign in round 1. Conflict reasons came out about why he never signed, but still why they would draft someone and fail to sign him was a huge mistake and a failure all the way around.
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badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 477
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Post by badfishnbc on Jul 3, 2014 13:21:09 GMT -5
The other way to view it is that when the dust clears, the Sox will still have a strong system and the MFY won't. At season's end they are still not likely to be a top 20 farm. They're not great, but they have built a solid foundation this year with the emergence of Refsynder and nice strides made by the 2013 1st round trio. Severino would be the 2nd best pitcher in the Red Sox system behind Owens. Add all of the talent they just signed and I'd say they're in the middle of the pack. You don't load up on 16 year olds and jump to the middle of the pack. Devers started the season as our 18th ranked prospect. He's rising because of his performance. But throwing massive money at such speculative guys isn't going to improve your system until they've performed for a season. It's a bottom-heavy perspective that no longer translates in the rankings.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 3, 2014 13:37:19 GMT -5
I remember when Almanzar was signed for a big bonus and prospect raters were writing that he was going to be a superstar. There are rare exceptions, but, for the most part, trying to project a 16-year old at almost anything is close to a fool's errand.
Unless this year's pool of international talent is remarkably rich, these bonuses - and the penalties they will bring - seem a little ridiculous. If the fair market bonus values of the players the Yankees signed really are $14 million (and maybe twice that with the penalties), then imagine what the true bonus value was of the players drafted in the amateur draft.
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 3, 2014 15:57:53 GMT -5
I remember when Almanzar was signed for a big bonus and prospect raters were writing that he was going to be a superstar. There are rare exceptions, but, for the most part, trying to project a 16-year old at almost anything is close to a fool's errand. Unless this year's pool of international talent is remarkably rich, these bonuses - and the penalties they will bring - seem a little ridiculous. If the fair market bonus values of the players the Yankees signed really are $14 million (and maybe twice that with the penalties), then imagine what the true bonus value was of the players drafted in the amateur draft. I agree that spending that much on IFA's is crazy but the odds of hitting on a 2 million dollar prospect aren't that much greater than hitting on a sub 300,000 dollar prospect, at least not as much as you'd think. The "penalties" aren't crazy severe and that's why we've so many teams willing to face them.
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