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Post by elguapo on Sept 18, 2012 22:06:28 GMT -5
The purpose of the thread is to lay out a potential 2013 roster to each poster's preference. It's preposterously speculative so I've put it here in the trade subforum. My take is below:
Free agent signings:
Zach Greinke (5x24) Shane Victorino (1x8 + 15M option 1M buyout - or similar) David Ortiz (2x14) Kevin Youkilis (2x8) Backup C
Trade:
Doubront for an OF TBD, Andrew Miller, Aceves, Salty
Rotation:
Greinke Lester Buchholz Lackey Morales De La Rosa
Bullpen: Holdovers from 2012
Lineup:
1. OF TBD / Nava 2. Pedroia 3. Papi 4. Youkilis 5. Ellsbury 6. Victorino 7. Lavarnway 8. Middlebrooks 9. Iglesias
I think Victorino is a good bounce-back candidate and a fallback if Ellsbury doesn't resign and JBJ isn't ready. He doesn't have a spot in LA and isn't positioned for the kind of contract he really wants and doesn't deserve. I'm not set on Shane - Ross or a similar solid player would be fine.
Doubront is our best trade chip and I would package him and Brentz for a good young OF.
I like Greinke - I'd say sign Kuroda too but I'm not going to be too greedy since I'm not sure where I'm at vs luxury cap.
We need Youk & Papi's bats and we have capable backups for the inevitable injuries with Sands & Gomez.
I like Dave Martinez as the new manager.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 19, 2012 0:33:21 GMT -5
I'll give it a try - and likely make it a bit ridiculous (but less ridiculous than the Punto trade):
Free Agents: Jake Peavy or Edwin Jackson - (2x13.5) Josh Hamilton - (5x24) Cody Ross - (1x8 + option) Ortiz - (2x14) - probably make the second year contingent on certain playing time goals
Trade: Elvis Andrus - (Ellsbury + Bard) Joe Mauer - (Doubront + Aceves + Salty + Iglesias + Webster)
Rotation: Buchholz Lester Lackey Peavy/Jackson De La Rosa/Stewart/Morales/Tazawa
Lineup: 1. R Andrus SS 2. L Mauer C/1B (50/50 split to keep him healthy) 3. R Pedroia 2B 4. L Hamilton RF/LF 5. R Ross RF/LF 6. L Ortiz DH/1B (1B for interleague... I know its ugly) 7. R Middlebrooks 3B 8. L Sands 1B / R Lavarnway C 9. L Kalish CF
Bench: C Lavarnway 1B/3B/LF Mauro Gomez IF De Jesus/ Ciricao OF Lin/Linares/Podsednik
Relief Pitcher: CL R Bailey RP R Melancon RP L Morales RP R Atchison RP R Tazawa RP L Breslow RP L Miller
Lin or Linares will fill the 5th OF spot OR they can go with a 3rd catcher at times. The lack of a true 1B will allow Ortiz to stay in the lineup in interleague play.
I know that the Mauer deal is probably never going to happen - but it may help the Twins to unload he and/or Morneau - with Morneau being more likely.
In the past I would have agreed with the group who would want to save money and invest in our system than throw it around like Monopoly money. But there is no longer an on-field alternative where you can spend your money (draft or international). So overpaying for short-term contracts may be the way to go.
With Ortiz, Jackson and Lester's contracts all up in two year - they will be able to make a serious run at King Felix.
-players added/resigned ~$86mil/yr -players retained ~$67mil even if my estimations are off - this team should still be under the tax threshold.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 19, 2012 8:20:28 GMT -5
My wish list:
Free Agents:
Papi Cody Napoli
Trade:
Andrus (Ellsbury, Bard) J. Upton (Iglesias, Kalish )
Starting Pitchers:
Buccholz Lester Lackey Doubront Morales Rubby
Bullpen stays pretty much the same minus Padilla.
Lineup:
1 Andrus SS 2 Pedroia. 2B 3. Napoli 1B 4. Papi DH 5. Upton Cf 6. Ross RF 7. Saltalamacchia/Lavarnway. C 8. Middlebrooks. 3B 9. Sands/Nava. LF
Lineup looks a little too RH, but it certainly packs a lot of power.
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Post by dmaineah on Sept 19, 2012 13:42:38 GMT -5
My wish list;
Sign;
Jacoby Ellsbury 5yrs for $80 mil with 2 mutual options @ $16 mil each
Free Agent Signings;
Josh Hamilton 3 yrs for $75 mil with a team option for a 4th yr @ $20 mil David Ortiz 1 yr for $14 mil with an automatically vested 2nd year option @ $14 mil based on health/production Cody Ross 2 yrs for $15 mil with a team option for a 3rd yr @ $8 mil
Trade;
Xander Bogaerts, Jackie Bradley JR, Garrin Cecchini, Mark Melancon & Brandon Workman For Prince Fielder
Line Up;
Ellsbury Pedroia Fielder Hamilton Ortiz Middlebrooks Ross Salty Aviles
Buchholz Lester Lackey Doubront De La Rosa / Webster
Morales Miller Carpenter Mortenson Tazawa Bard Bailey
Ciriaco De Jesus Sweeney Lavarnway
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Post by larrycook on Sept 24, 2012 13:27:53 GMT -5
My wish list: Free Agents: Papi Cody Napoli Trade: Andrus (Ellsbury, Bard) J. Upton (Iglesias, Kalish ) Starting Pitchers: Buccholz Lester Lackey Doubront Morales Rubby Bullpen stays pretty much the same minus Padilla. Lineup: 1 Andrus SS 2 Pedroia. 2B 3. Napoli 1B 4. Papi DH 5. Upton Cf 6. Ross RF 7. Saltalamacchia/Lavarnway. C 8. Middlebrooks. 3B 9. Sands/Nava. LF Lineup looks a little too RH, but it certainly packs a lot of power. So you would keep Aceves on the team next season with Valentine still as the coach?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 24, 2012 20:18:11 GMT -5
So the one thing I that these rosters hammer home is that the Red Sox aren't competing next year. Buccholz and Lester as a credible one-two in the AL east? Pure wishcasting.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Sept 24, 2012 21:25:43 GMT -5
So the one thing I that these rosters hammer home is that the Red Sox aren't competing next year. Buccholz and Lester as a credible one-two in the AL east? Pure wishcasting. To be fair, the Orioles are contending in the AL East with a Wei-Yen Chen & Jason Hammel 1-2 punch. The Red Sox aren't going to be division favorites with that rotation, but for one year Lester and Buchholz certainly could do it. There is more to a contender than the top two pitchers on Opening Day. For the record, I don't expect the Red Sox to be contenders, but with so much uncertainty with the roster it's pointless to speak in absolutes. Wishcasting is extreme in this case and is reserved to the people penciling in guys like Sands and Kalish for big roles next season.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 24, 2012 22:19:18 GMT -5
My wish list: Free Agents: Papi Cody Napoli Trade: Andrus (Ellsbury, Bard) J. Upton (Iglesias, Kalish ) Starting Pitchers: Buccholz Lester Lackey Doubront Morales Rubby Bullpen stays pretty much the same minus Padilla. Lineup: 1 Andrus SS 2 Pedroia. 2B 3. Napoli 1B 4. Papi DH 5. Upton Cf 6. Ross RF 7. Saltalamacchia/Lavarnway. C 8. Middlebrooks. 3B 9. Sands/Nava. LF Lineup looks a little too RH, but it certainly packs a lot of power. So you would keep Aceves on the team next season with Valentine still as the coach? Why not, under the kiss and make-up principle? Aceves has a good arm and needs to be put in the right situation to thrive. I wouldn't be opposed to including him in a trade as the team seems to have a surplus of RPs.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 25, 2012 13:35:22 GMT -5
So the one thing I that these rosters hammer home is that the Red Sox aren't competing next year. Buccholz and Lester as a credible one-two in the AL east? Pure wishcasting. To be fair, the Orioles are contending in the AL East with a Wei-Yen Chen & Jason Hammel 1-2 punch. The Red Sox aren't going to be division favorites with that rotation, but for one year Lester and Buchholz certainly could do it. There is more to a contender than the top two pitchers on Opening Day. For the record, I don't expect the Red Sox to be contenders, but with so much uncertainty with the roster it's pointless to speak in absolutes. Wishcasting is extreme in this case and is reserved to the people penciling in guys like Sands and Kalish for big roles next season. But that's exactly what I mean by wishcasting: building the team based around what your players could do, as opposed to what they're most likely going to do. Projecting Kalish or Sands isn't "wishcasting", it's just insane.
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nomar
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Posts: 10,833
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Post by nomar on Sept 25, 2012 13:41:41 GMT -5
To be fair, the Orioles are contending in the AL East with a Wei-Yen Chen & Jason Hammel 1-2 punch. The Red Sox aren't going to be division favorites with that rotation, but for one year Lester and Buchholz certainly could do it. There is more to a contender than the top two pitchers on Opening Day. For the record, I don't expect the Red Sox to be contenders, but with so much uncertainty with the roster it's pointless to speak in absolutes. Wishcasting is extreme in this case and is reserved to the people penciling in guys like Sands and Kalish for big roles next season. But that's exactly what I mean by wishcasting: building the team based around what your players could do, as opposed to what they're most likely going to do. Projecting Kalish or Sands isn't "wishcasting", it's just insane. In all likelihood this team isnt competing next year, so it would be as good of a year as any to see what you can get from guys like Kalish and Sands. You cant assume either will be great, but its not like it is impossible that they will become slid players. Not every good player was a highly ranked prospect.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 26, 2012 10:55:55 GMT -5
So the one thing I that these rosters hammer home is that the Red Sox aren't competing next year. Buccholz and Lester as a credible one-two in the AL east? Pure wishcasting. The rebuilding is a daunting task. The only way for a quick turnaround IMO is if Jacoby produces at a 2011 level and we make some good moves. By turnaround. I mean contend for one of the wild card slots. For that reason, I'd hang on to Jacoby and see what he can do. With Boras as his agent and an off year because of injury. He won't get much in return. I'm keeping JBJ because I expect him to replace Jacoby in 2014. My first move would be a pitching centric move. 1. Trade Doubront + Aceves + might throw in a position prospect. Not elite. for Josh Johnson and Mark Buehrle. Not unlike the Gonzalez trade. You can have Johnson for less than market value. But, you also have to take Buehrle. He's owed a lot over the next 3 years(12m, 19m and 20m) but his AAV is lower(14.5m) because he only made 7m this year. Not a great. But, improved rotation of Josh Johnson Clay Buchholz Jon Lester Mark Buehrle John Lackey (I'm looking to deal if any of the young arms emerge by the middle of next year) We might be able to build a pretty good pen if we can straighten Bard out. I want a lot of power arms there. I'm tired of seeing jags like; Atchison, Mortenson, Melancon and Aceves. A. Bailey - Closer - 3 Righties Daniel Bard Junichi Tazawa Rubby DeLaRosa 3 Lefties Andrew Miller Franklin Morales Craig Breslow Re-building the offense would require adding a key bat to go with what we have. Someone said Iglesias and Kalish for Justin Upton. Come on. They aren't going to give him away. I'd re-up Papi and Cody Ross. I also don't want to make a move for a SS. I'd like to give Iglesias a shot next year. If he fails miserably, Ciraco finishes the year and Xander grabs the spot in 2014. 2nd Deal - Have Washington pick up the option on Adam Laroche(10m) for the sake of getting something in return. Mark Melancon. Better arm than Tyler Clippard a former Yankee prospect whom they've had success with. They can probably talk me into throwing Aviles in too. He seems a better fit as a super utility guy for a NL team. Than an everyday SS. 3RD Deal - Sign Josh Hamilton 6yr 150m. I don't see other stars on the horizon who will become available. He kills Baltimore and NYY. We have to beat one of those teams. I'd like to have a clause that voids the contract if he gets suspended. Hell, we got 7 1/2 good years out of Manny and he was a little loco. Line-Up J. Ellsbury - CF D. Pedroia - 2B J. Hamilton - RF D. Ortiz - DH WMB - 3B A. Laroche - 1B C. Ross - LF Salty/Lavarnway - C This position is a problem. Much more so than shortstop. We're getting killed because of our sub-standard defense and ability to call a game there. I just don't know what's available. J. Iglesias - SS Bench R. Lavarnway - C P. Ciriaco - Inf R. Sweeney - OF D. Nava - OF - Gonna have him play some 1b too. I've kept our prospects. R. Kalish - CF - Needs to stay healthy and play before we get an accurate read on him. B. BrentZ - OF - Eventual replacement for Ross?? 2015. Extra bat and bench role in 2014. Xander - SS - My shortstop to start in 14 or late next year if we're really struggling. JBJ - CF - Replacing Jacoby in 2014. Haven't dealt any of our young pitching prospects. I was extremely disappointed in some of the guys. Turned it around a little late. Britton and Workman. Added Webster. Ranaudo seems to have his head on straight. Just can't find mechanics. Some good arms in lower levels. Fire away!
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 26, 2012 11:16:10 GMT -5
Not sure how Melancon is better than Clippard.
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Post by bentossaurus on Sept 26, 2012 11:22:32 GMT -5
I'll bite. One caveat, despite this being the 2013 roster, I'm only planning to contend in 2014 at the earliest. I'll also not be addressing management changes but I'm assuming Valentine is gone. This is the roster I'd start the year with:
Rotation:
Lester Buchholz McCarthy Lackey Morales
de la Rosa
Bullpen
Bailey Tazawa Miller Melancon Hill Atchison Mortensen
Lineup
C Lucroy 1B Smoak 2B Pedroia 3B Middlebrooks SS Iglesias LF Melky Cabrera CF Lin RF Ross DH Ortiz
SS Profar CF JBJ Bench
C/1B/DH Lavarnway 1B/OF Sands 2B/3B/SS/OF Avilles LF/RF Nava
Trade
- Kalish+Pimentel for Smoak - Doubront for Lucroy - Ellsbury, Saltalamacchia, Bard and Aceves for Profar
FA signings
- McCarthy (one year deal with an option) - Melky Cabrera (1/8 with an option) - Ortiz (2/28) - Ross (2/16 with an option)
By the mid/end of the year I'd expect for Profar to take over Iglesias spot, making him the bench MI and turning Avilles into a trade chip. Same with JBJ/Lin and de la Rosa/Lackey.
Heavily right-handed lineup but it would correct itself by end of the year.
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Post by jmei on Sept 26, 2012 12:01:19 GMT -5
Starting pitching Jake Peavy (signed at 3 years, $45m) Jon Lester Clay Buchholz John Lackey Felix Doubront/Franklin Morales
In AAA: Veteran FA, Allen Webster, Rubby De La Rosa
Bullpen (ranked in order by leverage) Andrew Bailey (closer) Daniel Bard Junichi Tazawa Andrew Miller Craig Breslow Rich Hill/Franklin Morales Mark Melancon/Clayton Mortenson/Scott Atchinson (longman)
Trade or release: Alfredo Aceves, at least one of the Melancon/Mortenson/Atchinson trio In AAA: Chris Carpenter, Alex Wilson, Josh Fields
Starting lineup CF: Jacoby Ellsbury 2B: Dustin Pedroia DH: David Ortiz (re-signed at two years, $30m) 1B: Mike Napoli (signed at three years, $36m) RF: Shin-Soo Choo (acquired from the Indians) 3B: Will Middlebrooks LF: Daniel Nava C: Jarrod Saltalamacchia SS: Jose Iglesias
Bench: C: Ryan Lavarnway IF/OF: Mike Aviles OF: Ryan Sweeney IF: Ivan De Jesus
In AAA: Ryan Kalish, Jerry Sands, Mauro Gomez, J.C. Linares Traded/released: Pedro Ciriaco, Che-Hsuan Lin
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 26, 2012 12:26:51 GMT -5
Not sure how Melancon is better than Clippard. I didn't say he's better. I said he has a better arm.
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Post by soxcentral on Sept 28, 2012 12:59:03 GMT -5
Looking through the ideas here there are a few I really like. Without regard to the likelihood of them happening or becoming available they are:
- Picking up Josh Johnson and Mark Buehrle together in a kind of salary dump but fills two spots in the rotation. You likely lose Doubront and more but in one shot this would pretty much solidify our pitching staff while maintaining a good amount of depth for both the rotation and bullpen.
- Re-signing Ortiz and Ross. Do we really have a choice at this point?
- Get LaRoche from the Nats. We really need to let WMB, Iglesias and maybe Lavarnway have 2013 to show what they can do. Adding Ellsbury, Ortiz, Pedroia and Ross leaves us with one OF spot to fill and 1B, LaRoche seems like a good fit.
The other OF spot is tougher to me. Maybe adding a Victorino-type is a good way to start with short-term money, and if the team is contending look to upgrade if necessary during the season. Don't want to commit big money to Hamilton.
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Post by larrycook on Oct 1, 2012 13:13:38 GMT -5
Looking through the ideas here there are a few I really like. Without regard to the likelihood of them happening or becoming available they are: - Picking up Josh Johnson and Mark Buehrle together in a kind of salary dump but fills two spots in the rotation. You likely lose Doubront and more but in one shot this would pretty much solidify our pitching staff while maintaining a good amount of depth for both the rotation and bullpen. - Re-signing Ortiz and Ross. Do we really have a choice at this point? - Get LaRoche from the Nats. We really need to let WMB, Iglesias and maybe Lavarnway have 2013 to show what they can do. Adding Ellsbury, Ortiz, Pedroia and Ross leaves us with one OF spot to fill and 1B, LaRoche seems like a good fit. The other OF spot is tougher to me. Maybe adding a Victorino-type is a good way to start with short-term money, and if the team is contending look to upgrade if necessary during the season. Don't want to commit big money to Hamilton. I think Johnson's shoulder will need to be thoroughly checked out before trading for him. If it checks out OK, then he could be a good contract year addition for us. I think we should make a qualifying offer to Ortiz, but be prepared to let Ortiz test the free agent market this offseason. I am not sure what he expects, but given his age and the nature of his injury this year, I can't see many teams lining up to offer him a huge multiyear deal. I would also pass on Hamilton, but I would be interested in exploring terms with Napoli.
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Post by jdb on Oct 1, 2012 21:11:54 GMT -5
I really like he idea of Victorino. He might prefer a pillow contract to reestablish value and Fenway is a hitters park. If we aren't competing trade him at the deadline and get some prospects. He got a decent haul from LAD this July in a down year. Granted he plays a good CF and could be a fit for a lot of teams.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 1, 2012 23:30:53 GMT -5
If we trade Ellsbury, Victorino is a perfect fit to play CF on a 1 year deal until JBJ is up.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 2, 2012 7:22:19 GMT -5
If we trade Ellsbury, Victorino is a perfect fit to play CF on a 1 year deal until JBJ is up. Not sure Victorino will be fine with a one year contract, but if we get a decent return for Ellsbury, I would think that would work real well.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2012 8:57:57 GMT -5
If i were Victorino i would want to play in a strong offensive park for one year to get my numbers up then sign a longer term deal for more money the next season. It will be interesting to see what he is looking for.
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Post by welovewally on Oct 4, 2012 14:28:17 GMT -5
I don't think we should be trading away any of our young prospects be it pitchers or position players so I would try to build a bridge year.
Sign: David Ortiz - 1yr with an option Cody Ross - 2yrs James Looney - 1yr with an option Delmon Young - 2yrs
Line Up:
C - Salty/Lavarnway 1B - Looney/Gomez 2B - Pedroia SS - Aviles/Iglesias/Ciriaco 3B - Middlebrooks LF - Young/Kalish CF - Ellsbury RF - Ross/Sweeney DH - Ortiz
Starting Pitchers; Buchholz, Lester, Lackey, Doubront, Webster, De La Rosa, Morales
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 4, 2012 14:39:05 GMT -5
If i were Victorino i would want to play in a strong offensive park for one year to get my numbers up then sign a longer term deal for more money the next season. It will be interesting to see what he is looking for. Now let me first say this.....we need a starter more than anything, but I still don't think it has to actually be an ace or an ace-in-waiting (new term). I'd trade Ellsbury for Hunter Pence, sign Victorino, and extend Cody Ross. Pence would be a great fit in Boston, in right-field, and in our line-up. He is a gritty, hustling ball player that Bostonians would love. Boston fans would really enjoy Victorino also in center, and Ross would be great in left. That is an outfield that would never quit!! Pence has one year left before free agency as does Ellsbury. Pence may be easier for us to re-up.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 4, 2012 14:45:41 GMT -5
If i were Victorino i would want to play in a strong offensive park for one year to get my numbers up then sign a longer term deal for more money the next season. It will be interesting to see what he is looking for. Now let me first say this.....we need a starter more than anything, but I still don't think it has to actually be an ace or an ace-in-waiting (new term). I'd trade Ellsbury for Hunter Pence, sign Victorino, and extend Cody Ross. Pence would be a great fit in Boston, in right-field, and in our line-up. He is a gritty, hustling ball player that Bostonians would love. Boston fans would really enjoy Victorino also in center, and Ross would be great in left. That is an outfield that would never quit!! Pence has one year left before free agency as does Ellsbury. Pence may be easier for us to re-up. That Ellsbury trade would be so bad, i guarantee we get more than that for Ells. It would be more like Ellsbury for Belt and Pence.
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Post by tjb21 on Oct 5, 2012 13:40:42 GMT -5
Now let me first say this.....we need a starter more than anything, but I still don't think it has to actually be an ace or an ace-in-waiting (new term). I'd trade Ellsbury for Hunter Pence, sign Victorino, and extend Cody Ross. Pence would be a great fit in Boston, in right-field, and in our line-up. He is a gritty, hustling ball player that Bostonians would love. Boston fans would really enjoy Victorino also in center, and Ross would be great in left. That is an outfield that would never quit!! Pence has one year left before free agency as does Ellsbury. Pence may be easier for us to re-up. That Ellsbury trade would be so bad, i guarantee we get more than that for Ells. It would be more like Ellsbury for Belt and Pence. Yeah, I don't think Boston would want any part of the Pence/Ellsbury swap.
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