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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Mar 13, 2014 19:31:09 GMT -5
Vince Wilfork asks to be released and Tommy Kelly restructures and saves pats about 850k against the cap.
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Post by buffs4444 on Mar 13, 2014 21:21:47 GMT -5
Absolutely no need to comply. No better (fitting) interior d-lineman out there to replace Vince. Let cooler heads prevail, come back home big man.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 14, 2014 7:18:14 GMT -5
Cutting Vince saves 8m, his position while important isn't what it used to be. I wouldn't cut him until I needed the money. You can go over the cap to sign people right now as long as you get under later. There is no telling how well Vince can recover and who knows how successful he will be. His play has been dropping in recent years, maybe it's over use, maybe it's a decline, maybe it's both. He's a player that makes the team better, but he might not be more valuable than the player(s) they can get with that 8m.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 14, 2014 7:45:10 GMT -5
Miguel at PatsCap (not a source for news mind you) doesn't have much confidence in a positive resolution as he's already moved Wilfork into his dead money calculation. Again, not that it means much but it sent me into a scramble to search for an update.
Anway, I don't fault either party here but I also wonder if Vince really thinks he can do better on the market. Maybe he's hurt enough that he doesn't care and just wants out. While I'd much prefer him on NE, I do wonder if that cap space would be better used on another edge rusher and a wide reciever.
If we do get Browner (for SS, some are proposing) our sub package (which we'd be in most of the time) would look like:
LDE Ninkovich
LDT Chris Jones (ranked as the worst DT last year but I think he was forced into a role that's not suited for him - sub pash rusher would be fine) or Armstead if he proves to be what everyone hopes
RDT - Chandler Jones
RDE - Allen/Peppers ?
LB - Mayo
LB - Collins (Hightower could rotate in as well)
CB - Revis
CB - Dennard/Ryan
CB - Arrington/Ryan (if we could just keep KA in the slot, I think he'd be fine)
S - McCourty
S - Browner (after first 4 games)
That's pretty good and doesn't even include any draft picks and I'm assuming we'd have at least 1 top 3 round guy on the defensive side (I'd especially think we'd seek out an edge rusher if a free agent isn't signed).
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Post by jmei on Mar 14, 2014 10:28:23 GMT -5
Re: Wilfork
I think it's more a question of Vince seeing the writing on the wall and wanting to exert some control over the process. If he thinks he's going to be cut anyways (which looks like it's probably the case, considering that the team has approached him about restructuring and still has a number of holes to fill with not a ton of cap space left), he wants to be cut ASAP so that he can still land a decent-size contract in free agency. The worst-case scenario for him is to be cut late in the offseason when none of the contending teams has any cap space left.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 14, 2014 18:28:00 GMT -5
I have to say they have done a good job with the secundary. Now focus on offensive weapons in the draft and perhaps D-line help.
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Post by jmei on Mar 14, 2014 19:07:46 GMT -5
Browner signs in Boston. Not sure what the exact terms are (and I'm curious to find out), but it's a three-year deal with a max of $17m but likely guarantees well south of that mark. Assuming it's an incentive-driven deal, seems like another good get. He's a great complement/backup to Revis and would make an intriguing strong safety candidate.
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Post by tns on Mar 14, 2014 19:15:15 GMT -5
Why are people assuming Browner will move to safety? Browner is an oversized press corner who played on the outside (right corner) on a championship Seattle defense. He wasn't signed to play safety, he's an underrated CB with size and length.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Mar 14, 2014 19:29:10 GMT -5
Is Browner our CB2 or SS? I think that Dennard is a more consistent player and should get the nod over Harmon, but if Browner goes to SS, wouldn't that just be playing to his weaknesses in space? I'm pretty sure his calling card is press man and he gets into trouble when he has to deal with off coverage (I don't follow the Seahawks so I might be making stuff up). I LOVE his hitting ability and, overall, he is a good addition to the secondary.
I hope they can get Henry Melton on a one-year deal. No reports have come out, but I like the idea of getting a young stud on the cheap, despite the red flags, and I think that he could find it appealing spend next season rehabbing his value with the Pats to cash in the following offseason.
On offense, I would like them to get one quality WR like Sanders or re-sign Julian.
In the draft, my pipe dream is that they leapfrog the Jets and get Ebron at 17, but I'd be fine if the ended up getting one of the other TEs. I think that Amaro is the best fit due to his NFL-readiness and reliability. In the 2nd and 3rd rounds they should target some interior offensive and defensive lineman.
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Post by jmei on Mar 14, 2014 19:45:25 GMT -5
When he wasn't hurt/suspended last year, Browner had some pretty major struggles (to the point where he would have been benched had he not gotten injured/suspended) and looked a step slow. He's never been the quickest or most fluid athlete, and folks have speculated that he'd move to safety as far back as when he came out of college. If he doesn't have the top-end speed to cover deep routes or the hip fluidity/quickness to cover shiftier receives anymore, he seems like a candidate to move to strong safety. My personal speculation: Browner seems like the ideal candidate to be a tight end slayer. He's got the size and length to match up against even the bigger TEs and the strength/toughness to disrupt them at the line of scrimmage. And even if he's not quick/fast enough to cover shiftier WRs, he should still have more than enough to keep up with most TEs. He seems like the prototypical guy you'd want matching up in press coverage against the likes of Julius Thomas or Antonio Gates. |
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Mar 15, 2014 7:18:26 GMT -5
It sounds like Browner's struggles came because he was matched up with smaller receivers. With Revis, Ryan, and Dennard standing at 6' or less, the Patriots should play the matchups and, if an opponent has a bunch of smaller receivers, don't force Browner out of his element and play him major snaps on those recievers. In the postseason, size always seems to win. When was the last time we had 4 corners that could legitimately play on the outside? It feels really good knowing that, when the injuries come, we still have the players to compete and now Arrington only has to play slot.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Mar 15, 2014 7:30:23 GMT -5
Also, Spikes goes to Buffalo for 1 year and $3.25 million.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 15, 2014 8:35:27 GMT -5
Peppers, whom some thought could be a fit here, signed for 3 years in GB. Prob not a lot of guaranteed money though.
Allen biggest name among edge rushers still available. I'd love him but I doubt we'll be able to afford him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 15, 2014 11:19:42 GMT -5
They can afford Allen easily if they want to or seem he's worth it.
Browner is a great get. This secondary is great. 37 and Harmond play different spots so don't affect one another unless they moved 37 to safety which some speculated could be a decent spot for him . Not sure why you'd do that though as he's been a good corner.
Pats need DL help still and I expect then to sit tight and take the best one. At the end of the first. Should be some options. I wouldn't mind a TE but probably not in rd 1. Can maybe nab the ND TE, who'd be a nice fit in the second.
Collins and Buchannon could also help the pass rush this year.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Mar 15, 2014 12:40:21 GMT -5
37 and Harmond play different spots so don't affect one another unless they moved 37 to safety which some speculated could be a decent spot for him. Not sure why you'd do that though as he's been a good corner. What I meant was, if the Pats thought Browner could play SS and CB equally well, his position would be decided by the other players on the roster. In CB1/FS/SS/CB2 format, Revis/McCourty/Harmon/Browner versus Revis/McCourty/Browner/Dennard, hence Harmon versus Dennard. ADD: On Allen, I think that they need a pass rush from the inside more then the outside. They currently have Chris Jones and Armstead as their pass-rush specialists on the inside, which isn't ideal to say the least. Kelly should be good, but he is older and he will need a blow every couple of plays in order to be effective and he will be playing a lot of snaps in the base defense. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 15, 2014 13:59:31 GMT -5
I think they need a pass rusher period. Allen and jones can both go from the inside on passing downs and Jones needs his snap count cut way down to increase his effectiveness.
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Post by jmei on Mar 15, 2014 14:06:47 GMT -5
Edelman re-signs.
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Post by jmei on Mar 15, 2014 14:12:18 GMT -5
I think they need a pass rusher period. Allen and jones can both go from the inside on passing downs and Jones needs his snap count cut way down to increase his effectiveness. Allen wants the $10m a year that Ware and Peppers got, which he's not going to get in New England. They need a third DE, but it's going to be a cheaper FA or the draft. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 15, 2014 15:17:06 GMT -5
Gonna wait until Amstrad steps on an NFL field before I say they "have" anything with him.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 15, 2014 15:21:44 GMT -5
I don't remember the count but Chandler Jones got a good number of his sacks from the inside (in the sub package). Get an upgrade over Carter/Buchanan and both your inside and outside rushes are addressed.
Allen said he'd retire (probably empty but) if he didn't get a good contract. Maybe not impossible but . . .
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Post by jmei on Mar 15, 2014 16:45:28 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 15, 2014 18:53:08 GMT -5
Buchannon is going into year two, don't be shocked, if he's a legit pass rushing option this season. Not a guy to rely on, but it wouldn't surprise he at all if he became a legit rotation player this season. Also, Collins showed flashes of brilliance, but again more depth and options are needed.
I haven't looked at the details of those 10m deals, but we all know they don't necessarily mean much. If Vince is getting cut he could certainly get real money in NE. Not likely but possible.
Has anyone seen Edelman money yet?
Anyone else thinking Vince may be staying?
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Post by jmei on Mar 15, 2014 19:34:27 GMT -5
Here are the details on Ware's contract. It's a pretty legit $30m-- $16.5m fully guaranteed, $3.5m more guaranteed for injury (but not skill/cap). Peppers' contract is much less legit-- only $7.5m of his $30m is guaranteed and he only gets $8.5m in year one. Still, Allen is going to want at least to match Peppers' $8.5m in year one, and that's a lot to pay for a guy who is more of a situational rusher. Miguel has the Patriots under the cap by $10m, not including the Edelman and Browner contracts (neither of which has details available yet) or a Wilfork release. That's not a lot, considering that they usually set aside around $8m for draft picks/practice squad/in-season extensions/additions and still need to add free-agent depth at a number of other areas (most notably at center/guard, defensive tackle, and perhaps linebacker and safety). I just really don't see them blowing most of the rest of their cash on one big piece rather than spreading it around like they usually do. The problem with Wilfork staying is the emotional side of things. It may very well be the case that the Patriots are offering about as much as any other team would, but Wilfork seems pretty pissed at the team for asking him to take less. On the other hand, he was in pretty acrimonious contract negotiations with the team before and put aside any bad blood to sign a five-year extension, so it's definitely possible the same happens here. Still, I don't see him agreeing to just decrease his 2014 base salary without also getting a few additional years tacked on at fair market rates, and I'm not sure the front office is comfortable committing additional guaranteed dollars to an aging DT coming off a serious injury who wasn't playing that well even before getting injured.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 15, 2014 22:15:58 GMT -5
LaFell signs with NE for 3/11. I thought he was backup plan for Edelman but it looks like they have both now.
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Post by jmei on Mar 15, 2014 22:28:39 GMT -5
I don't love the LaFell signing. He seems like a JAG to me, and while they didn't give him a ton of money or anything, it's a fair bit of cash to drop on a guy who looks like he's third or fourth in the depth chart.
EDIT: thought about it a little bit and am a bit more optimistic about this signing. He's an averagish receiver with some useful traits (size/red zone, versatility, durability) who provides a good layer of protection against Dobson/Thompkins failing to develop as hoped or being injured. It's just that I'd much rather he was signed for 2/$5m instead of 3/$11m, though we still don't know how much guaranteed money he got and it could be very little.
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