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Jackie Bradley Jr. - does the glove outweigh the bat?
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Post by texs31 on Aug 26, 2015 9:59:11 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm late to the game but why is the Mookie in CF and Bradley in RF tired? In RF you need the arm and, in Fenway, you need the range of a CF. Doesn't that just sound like JBJ?
I'm not saying it's absolutely the right answer but, when you need 2 CFers in Fenway (as many suggest) then I don't think it's ludicrous.
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Post by mandelbro on Aug 26, 2015 11:01:45 GMT -5
I'll take that as gospel but 2015 included the before swing so I would be more interested in the after swing change stats. Since he came back up in late July, the whiff rate versus fastballs is 8.59% and the whiff per swing versus fastballs is 19.32%. So an improvement, but still not a huge one (it's a sample size of 198, so it basically means he has two fewer swings and misses than he would have had last year). The question though - does JBJ swinging and missing less necessarily accompany him becoming a better offensive player? Or can he still swing and miss, but make more authoritative contact when he does not miss? It looks like the latter to me. He still whiffs, and likely always will... but he's getting the bat around quicker and catching up to pitches that he would have fouled off last year, or not squared up. This is where the scouting angle comes into play. Is there reason to think that he has mechanically improved the quality of his contact at the plate, rather than the amount of it?
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 26, 2015 11:08:05 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm late to the game but why is the Mookie in CF and Bradley in RF tired? In RF you need the arm and, in Fenway, you need the range of a CF. Doesn't that just sound like JBJ? I'm not saying it's absolutely the right answer but, when you need 2 CFers in Fenway (as many suggest) then I don't think it's ludicrous. The argument is that more balls get hit to CF so you want your best fielder there. It's not clear if the difference in arm strength outweighs that factor.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 26, 2015 11:14:16 GMT -5
That's fair. Still don't think it's a tired argument.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 26, 2015 11:28:54 GMT -5
JBJ doing what he is doing is something I have been wishing for since he came up and struggled after a very good spring. Gold glove cf that should have performed better based on his AAA line. Lets just exhale and enjoy the play of the guy we have been rooting for, for so long. At the very least it shows he has learned how to adjust and will at times be an offensive threat. I am happy if for no other reason than his value is going in the right direction. An OF of Rusney, Mookie and JBJ is an exciting thought. Now my wish is that Hanley handles 1st and mashes next yr. Sox could be a lot better soon based only on the maturation of the kids. And an Ace of course.
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Post by mandelbro on Aug 26, 2015 12:49:37 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm late to the game but why is the Mookie in CF and Bradley in RF tired? In RF you need the arm and, in Fenway, you need the range of a CF. Doesn't that just sound like JBJ? I'm not saying it's absolutely the right answer but, when you need 2 CFers in Fenway (as many suggest) then I don't think it's ludicrous. Its not that the idea is "tired", its the discussion. We are debating over, IF Jackie Bradley turns out to be a stud, and IF Mookie Betts turns out to be a stud, and IF Rusney Castillo turns out to be a stud, and IF none of them are traded, which CF are we going to put in RF and which CF are we going to put in CF. Its like discussing what color your Ferrari is going to be in. These things solve themselves.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 26, 2015 13:08:16 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm late to the game but why is the Mookie in CF and Bradley in RF tired? In RF you need the arm and, in Fenway, you need the range of a CF. Doesn't that just sound like JBJ? I'm not saying it's absolutely the right answer but, when you need 2 CFers in Fenway (as many suggest) then I don't think it's ludicrous. Its not that the idea is "tired", its the discussion. We are debating over, IF Jackie Bradley turns out to be a stud, and IF Mookie Betts turns out to be a stud, and IF Rusney Castillo turns out to be a stud, and IF none of them are traded, which CF are we going to put in RF and which CF are we going to put in CF. Its like discussing what color your Ferrari is going to be in. These things solve themselves. The debate actually happens if all three guys are your best options to start next year, and the odds of that are currently 100% each for Mookie and JBJ and 85% to 90% for Rusney. It's the current projected starting outfield trio, and it's likely to very likely not to change between now and opening day.My take: On the road, it's very clear that it's Betts - Bradley - Castillo left to right. At Fenway, if you ignore the trickiness of playing the Monster, there's a solid argument that Castillo - Betts - Bradley is better. However, once you factor in that Mookie, with his excellent baseball instincts, is likelier to handle the Wall better than Castillo, with his mediocre ones, you reduce or even eliminate the superiority of the alternative alignment. If it's better, it's not so much better that it's worth bouncing all three guys around between home and road. So it's Mookie, JBJ, Rusney. Mookie's range will be wasted a bit in Fenway's LF, but his accurate arm will play great there. On the road, where there are lots of big LF, he'll be immense. Rusney is plenty good enough to play RF in Fenway.
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Post by telluricrook on Aug 26, 2015 13:37:55 GMT -5
Listening to radio and those guys at 98.5 are accusing JBJ of Juicing. They are too scared of saying the word but saying everything except that.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 26, 2015 13:43:06 GMT -5
Listening to radio and those guys at 98.5 are accusing JBJ of Juicing. They are too scared of saying the word but saying everything except that. That's the kind of crap that should qualify for slander, given that they're supposedly a media outlet and should be held to a higher standard.
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Post by jrffam05 on Aug 26, 2015 15:17:33 GMT -5
It's not like Mookie can't add a lot of value defensively in LF. The wall takes some of that away, but he could still be an Alex Gordon type over there in left, which no one would complain about.
I think Bradley looks better from CF, which makes me waiver in what I said before about putting him in RF in deference to keeping Betts in CF. What really sickens me is seeing JBJ in LF for any reason. That's like playing Simmons at 2B.
I try not to say lol, but lol at JBJ using steroids.... Enough said.
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Post by m1keyboots on Aug 27, 2015 0:59:05 GMT -5
you didn't reserve that judgment for Mookie who made a rise during the minor leagues basically on a hot streak and hit the ball at the end of the year just like Jackie is this year except of course without the incredible defense. So you're just judging this based on contact percentages and other like advanced metrics? the mookie in center and jackie in right argument is so tired of this point, at the end of the year move Mookie 2 left, and put rusney in right if they keep hitting edit. he is the best cf in the league. If not its obvious he is leaps and bounds over mooks in center eye test or whatever. If you truly think that they are close to defensively I can't debate with someone like that. It's almost like people want to see mooks and center where his value will be higher than in left I absolutely reserved judgment on Betts when he was ~100 PAs into his breakout (see, e.g., this post from June 2013). Not every hot streak signals a breakout, even if it's accompanied by a plausible narrative (see, e.g., Chih-Hsien Chiang and his diabetes management). You did not specify that you meant defensively only. Even then, I think Kiermaier might be better, and guys like Cain and Lagares (when healthy) are at least on the same level. He is better than Mookie defensively, but I think it's closer than you're suggesting. we can agree to disagree speed- mookie first step-bradley reaction getting to spot-bradley range-bradley routes -bradley experience /instincts-bradley arm-bradley easily accuracy-Bradley penchant for the tough play look easy and making the crazy play-Bradley (Mookie has had some highlights but a couple were just recovering from a bad break on the ball
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Post by klostrophobic on Aug 27, 2015 1:31:43 GMT -5
Listening to radio and those guys at 98.5 are accusing JBJ of Juicing. They are too scared of saying the word but saying everything except that. Is that Felger? Any athlete who plays well after not playing well is entirely a figment of a "new workout regiment cough cough ahem" Really cunning analysis as always.
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nomar
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Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Aug 27, 2015 8:06:13 GMT -5
I can't believe Felger and Mazz get paid to do what they do. Unreal. You get better analysis from barstool even.
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Post by malynn19 on Aug 27, 2015 8:47:14 GMT -5
you didn't reserve that judgment for Mookie who made a rise during the minor leagues basically on a hot streak and hit the ball at the end of the year just like Jackie is this year except of course without the incredible defense. So you're just judging this based on contact percentages and other like advanced metrics? the mookie in center and jackie in right argument is so tired of this point, at the end of the year move Mookie 2 left, and put rusney in right if they keep hitting edit. he is the best cf in the league. If not its obvious he is leaps and bounds over mooks in center eye test or whatever. If you truly think that they are close to defensively I can't debate with someone like that. It's almost like people want to see mooks and center where his value will be higher than in left He is better than Mookie defensively, but I think it's closer than you're suggesting. This is one of the funniest comments I have ever read, LOL (I had to) maybe get us a link? Any person that has watched baseball for a time or even played (pass High School/Little League) can see that Bradley jr is a superior CF/OF. When I see JBJ, I see Gary Pettis, I see Devon White, I see SEA Griffey (without the HR robbing grabs.. so far) his arms belongs in RF though he has a Cannon a la Dwight Evans, Jesse Barfield, Ellis Valentine, etc.; And I agree with the whole VALUE thing, some people do not want Mookie move because he loses VALUE, another joke. I do not care about VALUE (this is not OOTP), I just want the Red Sox to field the best team possible and right now its Mookie - Bradley - Rusney in that order. Thanks for the laugh.
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 27, 2015 8:59:09 GMT -5
Bradley is one of the best defensive outfielders I've ever seen, maybe the best. It is just stupid that he is not playing CF all the time. If Betts could make the transition from 2B to CF as easily as he did, almost certainly he could move to LF without much difficulty. I think he would be a better defensive LF than he is a CF.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Aug 27, 2015 9:16:39 GMT -5
Bradley is one of the best defensive outfielders I've ever seen, maybe the best. It is just stupid that he is not playing CF all the time. If Betts could make the transition from 2B to CF as easily as he did, almost certainly he could move to LF without much difficulty. I think he would be a better defensive LF than he is a CF. Well said. And if Hanley can start taking grounders at first base, why not start trying Mookie in left NOW? Mookie would be exceptional in left and Rusney does have a strong arm for right. Bradley in center can make up for some of the poor routes that Mookie and Rusney once in a while make. With the speed of those 3, any catchable fly ball.......would be CAUGHT!
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 27, 2015 9:46:27 GMT -5
Bradley is one of the best defensive outfielders I've ever seen, maybe the best. It is just stupid that he is not playing CF all the time. If Betts could make the transition from 2B to CF as easily as he did, almost certainly he could move to LF without much difficulty. I think he would be a better defensive LF than he is a CF. Well said. And if Hanley can start taking grounders at first base, why not start trying Mookie in left NOW? Mookie would be exceptional in left and Rusney does have a strong arm for right. Bradley in center can make up for some of the poor routes that Mookie and Rusney once in a while make. With the speed of those 3, any catchable fly ball.......would be CAUGHT! I would think that they might be second guessing the decision to move a young player to a different position in the middle of the season because of Xander last year. I know they moved Mookie to the OF last year, but familiarity is a good thing for young players. The angles aren't much different in CF compared to 2B. I'd think the move would happen in the offseason and in spring training. It's not a huge deal for him to move right now. Let him finish the season without any more major adjustments and let him end on a high personal note with a great first full season. Or something like that. It's probably the same reason they don't want to move Rusney right now either.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 27, 2015 9:58:22 GMT -5
Listening to radio and those guys at 98.5 are accusing JBJ of Juicing. They are too scared of saying the word but saying everything except that. If Bradley's transition to the big leagues is for real, there will be a hell of a lot of talking heads who'll be eating a bunch of crow. This is probably their way of seasoning that dish. Rather than admit that they don't know what they're talking about, that they don't really have much to offer when it comes to player development, and that their baseball instincts as a whole are largely useless, they break out the tar and feathers. A class act all the way. Welcome to the modern media landscape.
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Post by awall on Aug 27, 2015 10:13:26 GMT -5
Yes, it wouldn't take much effort to see that he has made wholesale changes to his swing.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 27, 2015 10:17:41 GMT -5
Listening to radio and those guys at 98.5 are accusing JBJ of Juicing. They are too scared of saying the word but saying everything except that. If Bradley's transition to the big leagues is for real, there will be a hell of a lot of talking heads who'll be eating a bunch of crow. This is probably their way of seasoning that dish. Rather than admit that they don't know what they're talking about, that they don't really have much to offer when it comes to player development, and that their baseball instincts as a whole are largely useless, they break out the tar and feathers. A class act all the way. Welcome to the modern media landscape. Well, when one is stupid, analysis is difficult. So, better to blame others' bad behavior (even if one has to make it up) for one's own stupid words/actions than, you know, reconsider and be accountable for them. Those two are, in the truest sense of the word, pathetic. They're like a giant, stinky garbage truck roaring down the highway, oblivious to other drivers, spewing black smoke and bits of filth everywhere. That's their social "contribution." Loud, obnoxious, unaccountable, unapologetic, stinky filth that they just dump on the world and move on.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Aug 27, 2015 10:37:00 GMT -5
You guys realize that you're doing exactly what Felger and Mazz hope, right? They are trolls just throwing feces around to get attention and get some percentage of people who hear about them to tune in to hear "what they will say next!"
Don't feed the trolls.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 27, 2015 11:03:19 GMT -5
You guys realize that you're doing exactly what Felger and Mazz hope, right? They are trolls just throwing feces around to get attention and get some percentage of people who hear about them to tune in to hear "what they will say next!" Don't feed the trolls. Safe to say they're not reading this board.
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Post by Smittyw on Aug 27, 2015 11:56:43 GMT -5
Anyone who still listens to those idiots ought to know what they're getting. Find a bum on the street and ask him about Jackie Bradley's resurgence - you will probably get more insightful analysis.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Aug 27, 2015 13:00:19 GMT -5
You guys realize that you're doing exactly what Felger and Mazz hope, right? They are trolls just throwing feces around to get attention and get some percentage of people who hear about them to tune in to hear "what they will say next!" Don't feed the trolls. Safe to say they're not reading this board. Well, don't want to derail this too much, but that's not my point ... the discussion on this board is what they want; it serves their purposes. They want to stir up emotion and get people talking about them. So, even though they aren't reading this board, we're feeding into their purposes, which is to say outrageous, "controversial" crap so people talk about them. I literally never think of those two morons until someone brings up some nonsense they said. If you don't like it and want to do something, try to go after their advertisers or something and tell them they shouldn't be associated with such trash. Otherwise, just ignore them. Like I will go back to doing as soon as I type the period at the end of this sentence.
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Post by jmei on Aug 27, 2015 16:45:50 GMT -5
He is better than Mookie defensively, but I think it's closer than you're suggesting. This is one of the funniest comments I have ever read, LOL (I had to) maybe get us a link? Any person that has watched baseball for a time or even played (pass High School/Little League) can see that Bradley jr is a superior CF/OF. When I see JBJ, I see Gary Pettis, I see Devon White, I see SEA Griffey (without the HR robbing grabs.. so far) his arms belongs in RF though he has a Cannon a la Dwight Evans, Jesse Barfield, Ellis Valentine, etc.; And I agree with the whole VALUE thing, some people do not want Mookie move because he loses VALUE, another joke. I do not care about VALUE (this is not OOTP), I just want the Red Sox to field the best team possible and right now its Mookie - Bradley - Rusney in that order. Thanks for the laugh. None of this contradicts what I wrote. Yes, Bradley is better, but Betts is pretty good himself.
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