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2014-15 offseason discussion
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Post by Guidas on Aug 6, 2014 18:27:20 GMT -5
Yeah, one year of a relatively low-risk, below-market 3+ win player is a pretty good get for a rental pitcher. I just don't think elite prospects were on the table, but that gets us back to square one. At the very least, having had him on the team in 2015 makes signing him for 2016 and beyond more likely, and he is the sort of young, athletic position player that this front office has been willing to commit big money to. He'll be 30. I don't think this FO thinks that's young in baseball years - at least not long term deal young.
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Post by godot on Aug 6, 2014 18:47:47 GMT -5
Yeah, one year of a relatively low-risk, below-market 3+ win player is a pretty good get for a rental pitcher. I just don't think elite prospects were on the table, but that gets us back to square one. At the very least, having had him on the team in 2015 makes signing him for 2016 and beyond more likely, and he is the sort of young, athletic position player that this front office has been willing to commit big money to. Also doubt there were elite prospects on the table. Don't know what to think of Cespedes. No doubt he is good for the fan base, and even though I would not put him in the top 15 or so hitters in the league, he is better than what they have or may have down on the farm. Suspect they are betting he does well in Fenway. Have to admit he does not appear to be the hacker some suggest, but limited number of at bats. If he does well, wouldn't be surprised if they did not bother resigning him. As far as being young, hard to say. If he keeps in shape, he is even though hitting 30. Hell, Lester was young by these standards and athletic. Miller is also. But do you think they are going to resign them?
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Post by jmei on Aug 6, 2014 20:36:50 GMT -5
He'll be a year younger than Lester (a FA contract would start in his age-30 year), and more importantly, he's a position player. That makes a big difference, especially for a multidimensional guy who also adds value on defense and on the basepaths. You're right that it's more likely than not that Cespedes walks in free agency, but I think the front office would be willing to offer him a four- or five-year deal.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 6, 2014 20:54:17 GMT -5
Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 4m No team has scouted the Red Sox more than the Phillies this year. They're watching in St. Louis again.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 6, 2014 21:50:53 GMT -5
Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 4m No team has scouted the Red Sox more than the Phillies this year. They're watching in St. Louis again. I imagine that the thought most people have is that the Sox are saving their trade chips for Stanton, but more likely they're saving them for Cole Hamels because the Sox won't give Lester the 6 years $150 million contract they'd have to offer him to have a shot at re-signing him. So the chips would go to get a guy to replace the guy they already had and didn't want to extend instead of getting a power hitter they needed because now they have Cespedes and he'll have to do as the Stanton substitute. I'm guessing that's what's going on. The Sox obviously aren't looking to get Papelbon back. With Lee's injury there would be no other reason they'd deal with Philly.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Aug 6, 2014 23:40:35 GMT -5
Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 4m No team has scouted the Red Sox more than the Phillies this year. They're watching in St. Louis again. Cole Hamels was claimed on waivers, Top Scouts at Red Sox-St. Louis game, Mookie Betts is starting in center, Phillies want top prospects back for Hamels? any chance it was the Red Sox?
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 6, 2014 23:52:00 GMT -5
Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 4m No team has scouted the Red Sox more than the Phillies this year. They're watching in St. Louis again. Cole Hamels was claimed on waivers, Top Scouts at Red Sox-St. Louis game, Mookie Betts is starting in center, Phillies want top prospects back for Hamels? any chance it was the Red Sox? I dont think he gets past the cubs
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 7, 2014 16:19:16 GMT -5
Jayson Stark ?@jaysonst 6m To answer questions about earlier tweet, source says previous list of teams Hamels would OK trade to was wrong. Cubs OK, but Red Sox blocked
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 8, 2014 5:13:04 GMT -5
This is crazy depth. Our poker chip stack is high.
Kelly [Bos] June 9, 1988 (26 & 2 m) Workman [Bos] August 13, 1988 (26 soon) RDLR [Bos] March 4, 1989 (25 + 5 m) Ranaudo [Paw] September 9, 1989 (24 + 11m) Webster [Bos] February 10, 1990 (24 + 6 m) Barnes [Paw] June 17, 1990 (24+2 m) Johnson [Por] December 7, 1990 (23 + 8 m) Haley [Por] June 16, 1991 (23 + 2 m) Diaz [Por] April 9, 1992 (22 + 4 m) Escobar [Paw] April 22, 1992 (22 + 3 m) Owens [Paw] July 21, 1992 (22+ 1 m) Rodriguez [Por] April 7, 1993 (21+ 4 m)
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,018
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 8, 2014 5:40:32 GMT -5
This is crazy depth. Our poker chip stack is high. Kelly [Bos] June 9, 1988 (26 & 2 m) Workman [Bos] August 13, 1988 (26 soon) RDLR [Bos] March 4, 1989 (25 + 5 m) Ranaudo [Paw] September 9, 1989 (24 + 11m) Webster [Bos] February 10, 1990 (24 + 6 m) Barnes [Paw] June 17, 1990 (24+2 m) Johnson [Por] December 7, 1990 (23 + 8 m) Haley [Por] June 16, 1991 (23 + 2 m) Diaz [Por] April 9, 1992 (22 + 4 m) Escobar [Paw] April 22, 1992 (22 + 3 m) Owens [Paw] July 21, 1992 (22+ 1 m) Rodriguez [Por] April 7, 1993 (21+ 4 m) Furthermore, if you deduct the four professional years Wright spent not throwing the knuckler, he's 17 days younger than Workman. It's like dog years -- in knuckleball pitchers' years, he's 26 tops.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 8, 2014 6:31:58 GMT -5
Jayson Stark ?@jaysonst 6m To answer questions about earlier tweet, source says previous list of teams Hamels would OK trade to was wrong. Cubs OK, but Red Sox blocked There are various reports that the Cubs claimed Hamels. They certainly have plenty of trade chips to make it work. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them go after Lester this offseason.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 8, 2014 6:47:58 GMT -5
This is crazy depth. Our poker chip stack is high. Kelly [Bos] June 9, 1988 (26 & 2 m) Workman [Bos] August 13, 1988 (26 soon) RDLR [Bos] March 4, 1989 (25 + 5 m) Ranaudo [Paw] September 9, 1989 (24 + 11m) Webster [Bos] February 10, 1990 (24 + 6 m) Barnes [Paw] June 17, 1990 (24+2 m) Johnson [Por] December 7, 1990 (23 + 8 m) Haley [Por] June 16, 1991 (23 + 2 m) Diaz [Por] April 9, 1992 (22 + 4 m) Escobar [Paw] April 22, 1992 (22 + 3 m) Owens [Paw] July 21, 1992 (22+ 1 m) Rodriguez [Por] April 7, 1993 (21+ 4 m) Furthermore, if you deduct the four professional years Wright spent not throwing the knuckler, he's 17 days younger than Workman. It's like dog years -- in knuckleball pitchers' years, he's 26 tops. Yes but if you add in game times for knuckleballers that makes him about 30 and lost time while the audience sleeps, he's really pretty close to social security. Seriously though, I was referring to trade value. What GM would take Wright over any of the other 12 ?
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Post by jdb on Aug 8, 2014 8:42:38 GMT -5
Any idea when we're putting Cespedes in RF? We might as well get him used to it now.
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Post by suttree on Aug 8, 2014 9:39:39 GMT -5
The worst thing about these trades was it made it pretty evident they are trying to move Mookie for a FOTR starter.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,018
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 8, 2014 9:49:08 GMT -5
Furthermore, if you deduct the four professional years Wright spent not throwing the knuckler, he's 17 days younger than Workman. It's like dog years -- in knuckleball pitchers' years, he's 26 tops. Yes but if you add in game times for knuckleballers that makes him about 30 and lost time while the audience sleeps, he's really pretty close to social security. Seriously though, I was referring to trade value. What GM would take Wright over any of the other 12 ? I think many GMs would take him over Diaz and almost all would take him over Haley. He does, after all, have the best MLE ERA of anyone on the list. And more importantly, if he proves to be an asset for us at the MLB level, then it frees up precisely one more guy from the list to trade. Depth is depth.
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Post by jdb on Aug 8, 2014 11:17:18 GMT -5
The worst thing about these trades was it made it pretty evident they are trying to move Mookie for a FOTR starter. Maybe but they could be thinking about easing him into a starters role in 2016 also. Face it the way Xander and JBJ have hit this year maybe they want Mookie to have another year in AAA and fill in role. He may not have a clear cut position in the field but I think the front office thinks he's the guy that replaces Ells in the leadoff spot.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 8, 2014 18:21:21 GMT -5
Does anyone think it's possible to get Hamels without giving up Xander, Swithart, Owens, Devers or Vasquez?
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 8, 2014 18:51:32 GMT -5
Does anyone think it's possible to get Hamels without giving up Xander, Swithart, Owens, Devers or Vasquez? Sure, it's possible, just not likely. PHI will want upper-level pitching as part of any deal. There is greater discussion in the trade proposal thread and specific proposals belong there.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 8, 2014 22:32:38 GMT -5
Good luck dealing with the Phillies GM.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 9, 2014 8:35:44 GMT -5
Good luck dealing with the Phillies GM.
Everyone gives Amaro so much crap about asking for the moon for Hamels. Why shouldn't he? Hamels is one of the best pitchers in baseball. He's backed that up in the playoffs. He's left handed. He's got a reasonable contract that pays him $90 million over the next 4 years with an additional option year that pays $20-24 million based on innings pitched. And, that contract covers him only through age 34 (35 with the option). This is the kind of guy you build a team around. Now, the question is, if we're serious about competing in 2015 and if Lester gets an offer he can't refuse, are we willing to part with Mookie and two more prized prospects in order to land Lester's replacement?
I would begrudgingly say yes that's where the Sox would probably wind up going. They'd probably lose Betts and Swihart and some young pitching. If Amaro demands Owens the Sox would likely turn him down and perhaps it would be Johnson who is sacrificed. The Sox can't go into next year with Buchholz, Kelly, and 3 other question marks. They have really painted themselves into a corner in regards to the Lester situation and how it affects their club going forward.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 9, 2014 9:21:14 GMT -5
Good luck dealing with the Phillies GM.
Everyone gives Amaro so much crap about asking for the moon for Hamels. Why shouldn't he? Hamels is one of the best pitchers in baseball. He's backed that up in the playoffs. He's left handed. He's got a reasonable contract that pays him $90 million over the next 4 years with an additional option year that pays $20-24 million based on innings pitched. And, that contract covers him only through age 34 (35 with the option). This is the kind of guy you build a team around. Now, the question is, if we're serious about competing in 2015 and if Lester gets an offer he can't refuse, are we willing to part with Mookie and two more prized prospects in order to land Lester's replacement?
I give him crap for wanting Xander, plus 3 more prospects for Lee without any money thrown in. And then I give him crap for wanting JBJ for Michael frickin Young. And I give him crap for giving every player they have a $10 million buyout on an option year. He got nothing for anything he has shopped and will probably get fired before they finally start rebuilding about 3 years too late.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 9, 2014 10:13:20 GMT -5
And now Amaro appears to want Xander. Go to hell.
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Post by jmei on Aug 9, 2014 10:55:28 GMT -5
Asking for the moon as an opening offer is an obnoxious negotiating tactic, but it does not mean that the asking price will remain that high. Amaro has traded high-end players for reasonable packages before (see his trades of Pence and Lee).
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Post by kungfuizzy on Aug 9, 2014 14:39:58 GMT -5
And now Amaro appears to want Xander. Go to hell. Chances are good Xander is just one player he wants. He would probably be asking for Xander and two of the Swihart Owens Betts tier. I am stunned they got two bodies from the Dodgers for Carmona
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Post by jrffam05 on Aug 11, 2014 8:59:15 GMT -5
As much as I like him, Xander has to show something the rest of this season or I think we would have to consider a short term replacement for 2015. His season is a strange one, after a dominate 2013, and some time being one of the best SS in 2014 he fell off a cliff. His plate discipline and pitch recognition which was such a strong suit for him last year just vanished. I don't blame the position switch but something is seriously off with this guy.
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