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2014-15 offseason discussion
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,140
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Post by nomar on Nov 25, 2014 17:33:58 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about Amaro being seen as a genius.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 25, 2014 17:41:10 GMT -5
Stop taking everything that kid says as the infinite truth. The Red Sox already said Hanley will be in LF.
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Post by Smittyw on Nov 25, 2014 17:41:41 GMT -5
A few moments ago on the 98.5 Hub, Jake Wesley says he expects the Red Sox to explore trading Bogaerts for Hamels. Please, no. This kid's 15 minutes of fame are running out quickly...
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Nov 25, 2014 17:44:01 GMT -5
there is no way that Bogaerts is going anywhere for any realistic pitching target is a trade. The team would be better off waiting to see how the AAA guys mature than doing that and there is no way that BC doesn't know that and Henry too for that matter. Same holds true for Betts and probably Swihart.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 25, 2014 17:50:36 GMT -5
Why are we hearing so much about Hamels? Are people forgetting ruben amaro junior is their GM? Wouldn't other targets make more sense?
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Post by thursty on Nov 25, 2014 17:51:23 GMT -5
It would be very Red Sox to trade the guy who was recently regarded as the top prospect in baseball for a very good but not elite pitcher. Not even the Astros do that crap. Byron Buxton was consensus #1 prospect coming into this year - Xander #2
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 25, 2014 17:55:06 GMT -5
George Ofman ?@georgeofman 6m6 minutes ago
Excuse me again. Redsox offer to Lester is $130-135. Sorry about that.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 25, 2014 17:58:17 GMT -5
Stop taking everything that kid says as the infinite truth. The Red Sox already said Hanley will be in LF. Especially since, if I'm reading the quote correctly, he's not even claiming to have a source on this.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 25, 2014 17:59:34 GMT -5
I get that there is probably a deal close to happening for Cespedes, I just think it makes sense to keep his bat in the lineup. He really impressed me last year. I'd rather package say Napoli w prospects for a SP and put Hanley at 1st. This looks way too appealing to me ... Betts - Pedroia - Ortiz - Cespedes - Sandoval - Ramirez - Castillo - Bogaerts - Vazquez What impressed you? His thumping .719 OPS with us? The 7/48 BB/K? The graceful way he played the wall? Seriously, the only thing he did really well for us was hit an impressive bomb or unleash a great throw once in a while. Napoli offers comparable power production with vastly superior OBP skills. He's led MLB the last couple seasons in pitches seen per plate appearance, and that may be a particularly useful skill in 2015 since he's likely to be adjacent to a free-swinging Panda in the lineup. I'd still be receptive to moving him in a package for a very solid starter (one that YC can't fetch), and it'd allow Nava and Craig to slide into the lineup, where they could be quite productive in a platoon (albeit without Napoli's power). Thing is, though, I see no good matches out there for Napoli other than the Mariners. 1, even both of Cespedes and Nap to Seattle for some kind of package for Iwakuma and James Paxton with some of the Sox pitching prospects included would mean the Sox could conclude the huge spending spree this offseason and get the 2 top of the rotation arms, much cheaper AAV wise, with Paxton under team control for 5 more seasons. They may have to send back a high end arm with the 2 power bats.. Say Owens, but to get the 2 top of the rotation arms in one fell swoop? It'd be worth it, probably one of the fringy MLB arms also, like a Ranaudo/Workman/Webster.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 25, 2014 18:01:18 GMT -5
It would be very Red Sox to trade the guy who was recently regarded as the top prospect in baseball for a very good but not elite pitcher. Not even the Astros do that crap. Byron Buxton was consensus #1 prospect coming into this year - Xander #2 That changes everything lol.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 25, 2014 18:02:22 GMT -5
Why can't the Yankees just swoop in and throw some ridiculous money at Lester and take him off the table?
I think we should be looking more at sherzer.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 25, 2014 18:02:31 GMT -5
Stop taking everything that kid says as the infinite truth. The Red Sox already said Hanley will be in LF. Especially since, if I'm reading the quote correctly, he's not even claiming to have a source on this. This. Guys, he's a 14 year old who claims to know someone with the Sox. So when he randomly speculates, why on earth would it mean anything at all? I said this on Twitter last night, but 4 months ago he was sending major league pitchers DMs on Twitter asking for advice on pitching, then tweeting it out when he got a response like he had won the lottery. This is insanity.
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Post by ramireja on Nov 25, 2014 18:04:16 GMT -5
MAN TODAY HAS BEEN SLOW WITH SIGNINGS!
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 25, 2014 18:05:04 GMT -5
Especially since, if I'm reading the quote correctly, he's not even claiming to have a source on this. This. Guys, he's a 14 year old who claims to know someone with the Sox. So when he randomly speculates, why on earth would it mean anything at all? I said this on Twitter last night, but 4 months ago he was sending major league pitchers DMs on Twitter asking for advice on pitching, then tweeting it out when he got a response like he had won the lottery. This is insanity. Gotta be outraged about something I guess.
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Post by bookiemetts on Nov 25, 2014 18:13:17 GMT -5
Why are we hearing so much about Hamels? Are people forgetting ruben amaro junior is their GM? Wouldn't other targets make more sense? Haha yeah really. Let's say Ben takes an errant Sandoval backswing to the head and actually offers Bogaerts for Hamels. Ruben would then counter with Bogaerts, Betts and Swihart while we all buy front row tickets to watch him ride that franchise into the ground. The thing is who are the other realistic targets? Is Iwakuma really possible? Are any of those Padres pitchers up for grabs? (of course there are the home/away splits to consider) Who else?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 25, 2014 18:24:04 GMT -5
This. Guys, he's a 14 year old who claims to know someone with the Sox. So when he randomly speculates, why on earth would it mean anything at all? I said this on Twitter last night, but 4 months ago he was sending major league pitchers DMs on Twitter asking for advice on pitching, then tweeting it out when he got a response like he had won the lottery. This is insanity. Gotta be outraged about something I guess. Apologies. Just saw multiple posts taking it as gospel and had a brief break with reality. Fair to call me out there. Let's move on.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Nov 25, 2014 18:24:25 GMT -5
A few random thoughts...
Lester wanted to talk to other teams, and probably is enjoying the courting. I think if the Sox offer 7/140 it won't get topped.
Could Marrero replace Bogaerts without hurting the team? He certainly would improve the defense, and if he hits .250, which he probably would, would the potential loss of the better bat of Bogaerts be offset by the additional thumpers just added, and by the improved defense at SS? What if Bogaerts did bring a premium pitcher, Hamels or Zimmerman, etc?
I think if they paired Cespedes with one of the top 20 prospects, and Craig with one of the top 20 prospects, they could land a couple of decent pitchers, 3/4 types, with solid records, or a starter and a good RP.
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Post by theburn on Nov 25, 2014 18:26:28 GMT -5
Not saying I believe the kid, but given his recent success it makes you wonder for a moment.
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 25, 2014 18:30:39 GMT -5
A few random thoughts... Lester wanted to talk to other teams, and probably is enjoying the courting. I think if the Sox offer 7/140 it won't get topped. Could Marrero replace Bogaerts without hurting the team? He certainly would improve the defense, and if he hits .250, which he probably would, would the potential loss of the better bat of Bogaerts be offset by the additional thumpers just added, and by the improved defense at SS? What if Bogaerts did bring a premium pitcher, Hamels or Zimmerman, etc? I think if they paired Cespedes with one of the top 20 prospects, and Craig with one of the top 20 prospects, they could land a couple of decent pitchers, 3/4 types, with solid records, or a starter and a good RP. NO. I mean that certainly makes the team much worse. In spite of of his impressive BA in Arizona, he K'd a lot. I doubt he's ready to hit 250 in MLB. As for your trades, why do you want more 3/4 starting pitchers? We have those. We need 1/2 types, maybe a 2/3 type.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 25, 2014 18:36:16 GMT -5
Gotta be outraged about something I guess. Apologies. Just saw multiple posts taking it as gospel and had a brief break with reality. Fair to call me out there. Let's move on. That was the outrage I was referring to.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 25, 2014 18:38:19 GMT -5
I don't disagree with the idea of Bogaerts for an elite starter just don't think those guys are the ones.
If you trade him, I think you want someone whose performance outweighs cost for a couple of years. Zimmermann is a FA after next year and Hamels, is probably headed towards a reversal of that ratio and then your paying big bucks for a declining SP while you also gave up one of your best young players.
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Post by mredsox89 on Nov 25, 2014 18:38:55 GMT -5
Red Sox Stats @redsoxstats Kaplan on CSNNE: "Privately the Cubs think Lester is going back to Boston, but they are making a concerted effort."
It really seems like the general consensus is that it's only a matter of time until Lester signs in Boston. 6/140, get it done by the meetings BC
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Nov 25, 2014 18:41:48 GMT -5
Well, I'd like 1s and 2s but they are not going to get them without giving up more than maybe they should. They probably would have add a prospect to each deal, and even then it would be dicey.
Also, I disagree that what the Sox have are 3s and 4s. They have mostly 4s and 5s and some who aren't even 5s yet. Kelly is the best starter on the team now. Not as good as Buchholz when he is pitching well, but since there is no way of knowing when or if that will happen, because he is more consistent, Kelly is better. There also is a good chance that he will improve.
None of the prospect pitchers grabbed the gold ring this year. De La Rosa is closest. The best prospects, Owens, Johnson and Rodriguez, probably are going to spend a good share of the season at Pawtucket. Meanwhile, the big league teams needs to acquire two or three starters and one or two RPs. And at least two of those starters better be very good, preferably three.
I think you can see why there is so much talk about Bogaerts going in a deal for a top SP. That might diminish if Lester signs.
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 25, 2014 18:43:37 GMT -5
Not saying I believe the kid, but given his recent success it makes you wonder for a moment. I'll treat his "reports" optimistically. I.e. When he says source says this deal is done. Anything else I'll treat as speculation, as that's probably what it is. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter who breaks the news or when we find out?
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,962
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 25, 2014 18:43:55 GMT -5
I was under the impression that Lester has a figure that would satisfy him, and for which he would return to the Sox even if he had better offers. I'm not sure how having a preference to return here would work otherwise. If you were in line for a big raise, really liked your job, and were about to start fielding offers from other companies, wouldn't you decide what you were worth, and then ask for it? Would it make any sense to not know that number before you started fielding offers? Would it make any sense to change that number after you started fielding offers? You'd pick the number that would make you entirely happy, because you really want to keep your job, and you believe you are worth that much. Getting more, even a lot more, is not going to make you happier.
I was even under the impression that 6/$138 was reported as that number.
If you're the Sox, you wait until someone bids it up that amount, and then you match it. Fat lady sings.
Now, can someone run with that assumption and see what kind of money is left over for Miller, etc.?
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