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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 3, 2014 14:42:22 GMT -5
It's nothing new, the Hall of Fame is loaded with players that struggled initially. Minor league players are not finished products and they play against people that are not finished prospects.
Iirc, Mellen had his pitches rated at 55,55,50. Again, not bad when you consider that he's 21.
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Post by oilcansman on Aug 3, 2014 15:02:21 GMT -5
Just curious, since he is cited frequently on this board for his scouting acumen, what is Chris Mellen's background and credentials in scouting baseball players?
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cdj
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Posts: 14,094
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2014 15:09:26 GMT -5
Dayan Diaz has really nice stuff it seems. Explosive fastball. Nice slider too. He's 25 though. Great start for Mike Miller at Portland. I'm not too worried about his age, he had his development hindered by TJ surgery. Good stuff, don't expect to see him in the bigs with us though. Noe looked really nice in the last two innings.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,094
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2014 15:12:21 GMT -5
Just curious, since he is cited frequently on this board for his scouting acumen, what is Chris Mellen's background and credentials in scouting baseball players? He currently scouts for Baseball Prospectus and has been a scout for this website for awhile.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 3, 2014 15:27:22 GMT -5
Sorry about nit picking but, I think it's leaving the wrong impression to intimate that the non-Red Sox analysts had a low opinion of Rodriguez.
Here's KLaw on the trade:
It's a small deal relative to the others we saw on Thursday, but the Red Sox acquiring lefty Eduardo Rodriguez from the Orioles for two months of left-handed reliever Andrew Miller was the best value move of the day -- a great return for Boston, and the deal with the best minor league prospect moved over the course of the whole day.
But two months of Miller, who's a free agent after the year, isn't much of a return for one of the top 100 prospects in the game, so Boston made out great here in getting Rodriguez. The 21-year-old left-hander needs more consistency and his slider is not yet an average pitch, but he's consistently up to 94 as a starter, touching 96 in his best starts, with an above-average to plus changeup in the mid- to upper 80s. His control is way ahead of his command, and my last time seeing him this year in Class AA (the fourth time I'd seen him in the past 15 months) he struggled as much with bad pitch-calling as anything else. I think he's a potential mid-rotation starter and slots in very well toward the top of the Red Sox's farm system, behind Henry Owens (who has better deception and a better changeup) but in line with the other big arms.
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Post by godot on Aug 3, 2014 15:33:56 GMT -5
Marrero's bat has been quiet lately.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 3, 2014 15:44:56 GMT -5
Marrero's bat has been quiet lately. He's depressed about Xander moving back to shortstop Unlikely, he'll ever be able to walk and chew gum at the same time from here on out.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 3, 2014 16:08:13 GMT -5
Derrik Gibson hit his first AAA home run in the PawSox loss.
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 3, 2014 16:17:46 GMT -5
This is Gibson's seventh season in the Red Sox system and he still is only 24. He seems finally to have learned to hit. He hasn't hit well since his second season at Lowell, but he did at Portland this year and maybe he will at Pawtucket. He might make it to the bigs as a utility player. He can play 2nd, short and 3rd and the OF.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 3, 2014 16:30:09 GMT -5
Great game on Tv. I loved seeing Swihart. He isn't going anywhere.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 3, 2014 16:34:47 GMT -5
Just curious, since he is cited frequently on this board for his scouting acumen, what is Chris Mellen's background and credentials in scouting baseball players? He currently scouts for Baseball Prospectus and has been a scout for this website for awhile. Chris has worked at BP since 2012. I'd suggest that you follow him there to check out his bona fides or contact him directly. Here is what Jason Parks, Director of Scouting and Player Developement at BP, said about Chris when he was hired. If there is disagreement with specific scouting reports Chris (or anyone else) has made, feel free to note the specifics of the disagreement. Questioning the bona fides of Chris (or other industry scout) is not cool.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 3, 2014 16:37:37 GMT -5
Mellen said in another tweet today that he's a 4th/5th starter.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 3, 2014 16:39:40 GMT -5
Spinners postponed. DH tomorrow.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 3, 2014 16:55:13 GMT -5
McGrath - 6IP, 7H, R, 6/1 K/BB
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Aug 3, 2014 17:04:46 GMT -5
Hmm ..... when I read Chris's first in-person assessment of Rodriguez, it just seemed to me an assessment of what he saw that day, not a once-and-for-all-time analysis of what Rodriguez is and is likely to become. Any analyst worth his salt knows that individual looks are just that -- snapshots in time. The closer a player is to being on the cusp of more worthwhile/less worthwhile, the more data are needed, because the degree of discernment needed is so high.
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 3, 2014 17:09:15 GMT -5
Chris' scouting reports are very detailed, very specific. I've been reading them ever since he started doing them. I cannot recall offhand any that were way off. Players do change. Some improve. Some don't. All a scout is doing is assessing a player at a given moment in time and then using some judgment and experience to try to project what the player may become. But no one can see the future, nor can anyone anticipate what a player may do that will change his possibilities.
There have been several reports recently of players who made changes that caused a marked improvement in their performance and their prospect ratings. Specifically, I think there are stories about Travis Shaw and Anthony Ranaudo.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 3, 2014 17:48:56 GMT -5
See where Mellen is changing ( or covering his butt) on his views of Rodriquez. Maybe the Sox did make the right move. Let's hope so. Chris Mellen is one of the better professional scouts whose evaluations I've read. He was able to spot flaws and identify value in the Sox minor league players long before they became common knowledge, and before most of us came to see them. He's very good and my guess is he could work as a scout for a pro team if that's what he wanted.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 3, 2014 18:20:56 GMT -5
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Post by godot on Aug 3, 2014 18:31:30 GMT -5
Now that is a valuable evaluation by Kipper, and that is what some scouts like to look at if it is just a day. Regardless, it tells me alot, more so than an analysis of the pitches for that day. But that is me.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 3, 2014 19:06:05 GMT -5
Sam Travis 5/7 with a bb in his first two games with Greenville.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 3, 2014 20:05:08 GMT -5
Sam Travis 5/7 with a bb in his first two games with Greenville. No power. He's a bust.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 3, 2014 20:14:53 GMT -5
Now that is a valuable evaluation by Kipper, and that is what some scouts like to look at if it is just a day. Regardless, it tells me alot, more so than an analysis of the pitches for that day. But that is me. So just to make sure, you take an evaluation from someone within the organization whose job is to coach the player and probably can't say anything negative about a player as more valuable than one by an objective evaluator whose job is to be correct?
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 3, 2014 20:23:29 GMT -5
Sam Travis 5/7 with a bb in his first two games with Greenville. No power. He's a bust. Now that we're past the PED era, I'm going to look for comps from the 70's and 80's. I'm old enough to remember those days. 52. I think you can throw all of the data from 95 thru about 2010 out the door. It's irrelevant now. Doubt we see numbers like that again with the emphasis on defense and pitching we have in today's game.
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Post by godot on Aug 3, 2014 20:26:57 GMT -5
Yup, if he is right on what he said, it tells me something. What do you think, i'm a cynic? Besides, if you believe in objectivity, I would not want you as a lawyer. The so called "objective" evaluations that you refer to are conducted by people with certain perspectives and skills that often are not on a par with a professional scout, nor is there any cross checking. Besides it does not seem like it is a job for the ones you speak of, more of a hobby. Mellen was on a different level, and I learned something from him. While I'm at it, have a few suggestion for your i-pods. There is interesting information, but you talk and ramble too much at the start, interrupt your guest too often with repetitious babble , and come across as trying to be cool. It is tortuous to listen. This is an objective evaluation.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 3, 2014 20:27:40 GMT -5
Quick-Draw McGrath with a decent line for the Drive 6.0IP 7H 1R 1ER 1BB 6K 0HRA Salem lost after going ahead in the 9th, Younginer gave up two in the bottom of the ninth for a MB walkoff win.
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