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Post by greatscottcooper on May 10, 2015 8:37:44 GMT -5
It's pretty much just draft a pitcher is my point. Basically saying we have a lot of the same mold of players (which is great) The Sox are likely to take the best player available. If someone like Bregman falls to them it will be a hitter, but all things considered, it is more probable than not the Sox draft a pitcher at #7
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Post by bsout2 on May 10, 2015 10:21:16 GMT -5
Why did Daz Cameron jump up the last few weeks? On Baseball America's podcast a month ago they said Cameron had fallen on draft boards the last two years. They went on to say there were a few high school OF ahead of him and now I am seeing his name in the top 10.
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Post by jmei on May 10, 2015 10:46:59 GMT -5
Why did Daz Cameron jump up the last few weeks? On Baseball America's podcast a month ago they said Cameron had fallen on draft boards the last two years. They went on to say there were a few high school OF ahead of him and now I am seeing his name in the top 10. I think it's more that everyone else has fallen. Cameron was in the 10-15 range before Aiken/Mantuella, etc., and he's just moved up a tick as those guys have slid down the board.
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Post by mjammz on May 10, 2015 11:09:51 GMT -5
Why did Daz Cameron jump up the last few weeks? On Baseball America's podcast a month ago they said Cameron had fallen on draft boards the last two years. They went on to say there were a few high school OF ahead of him and now I am seeing his name in the top 10. Probably because they heard a rumor that the Astros like him so they moved him up their rankings. That's how these internet rankings work.
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Post by jimed14 on May 10, 2015 11:10:09 GMT -5
Yeah that's my point. Right. Cause Mike trouts grow on trees and we should have many. My point is that we seem to,draft many players with a good to plus hit tool with high power potential. My issue has been that it seems to that little to none of them Will have that power. I know that the power tool is the hardest and last to develop. I get it. Again, I'm saying please draft a pitcher .. Not another up the middle good hittool talent with potential for some power. That's all. So you like Will Middlebrooks types instead of Mookie Betts types?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 10, 2015 11:26:30 GMT -5
It's pretty much just draft a pitcher is my point. Basically saying we have a lot of the same mold of players (which is great) OK, well I guess I'll just say the following then: 1) I'm not sure I agree with your assertion in a general sense that they have too much of a certain type of player. Perhaps part of the problem is that you've only given a couple of examples of what this type of player is, so I know personally I still am not sure what you're saying. You've so far listed Cecchini and Chavis who I don't consider all that similar really. Maybe listing the guys that are all this type of player in your opinion would be helpful. 2) Whatever the type of player is who you think the Red Sox have too much of, I'd point out that last year at this time, people would have said the Red Sox shouldn't draft another young, high ceiling, raw arm because they had a glut of them in Greenville. Then they drafted Kopech anyway and there has been no glut. These things work themselves out. Seriously, the answer is always draft the best player and that's it. If there's a guy you grade a 7 who is of a type that you have similar players in your system already and another guy who you grade a 6, but is a type of player that you really don't have in your system, you draft the 7. If nothing else, you can trade him for a different 7 down the line.
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Post by pedroelgrande on May 10, 2015 11:32:45 GMT -5
Daz is "climbing" because he seems to be a polarizing figure among scouts. For some teams he probably never "dropped."
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2015 8:44:18 GMT -5
Chris Crawford, who joined BP recently, has a mock up there. www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=26311Hard to take seriously given its use of the word "verse" instead of "versus" like he's in second grade or something, but whatever. Also, no thanks on Daz Cameron.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 11, 2015 9:15:22 GMT -5
I still think take a chance on Aiken. The Sox have one of the best pitching programs. I am all set with Cameron. I have a bad feeling about him. Worst case we draft one of the kids were familiar with Fullmer or Bregman. I mean we must have a huge write up on these two kids.
I remember reading with Bregman he got hurt and he was adamant about getting first round money. He wanted to be drafted in the first round. I forget the deal with Fullmer. Think about it if these two signed and went to Boston would they be were there at now in time? I always wonder if going to college helps these kids.
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Post by jimed14 on May 11, 2015 9:20:46 GMT -5
I always wonder if going to college helps these kids. I'd guess that the answer is always 'sometimes'. Karsten Whitson is an example where going to college didn't help.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2015 10:05:09 GMT -5
I remember reading with Bregman he got hurt and he was adamant about getting first round money. He wanted to be drafted in the first round. I believe you're thinking of Ryan Boldt.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on May 11, 2015 10:34:41 GMT -5
I still think take a chance on Aiken. The Sox have one of the best pitching programs. Maybe, at keeping them healthy. Certainly not as developing them to be MLB pitchers. We've been god-awful at developing them for 5-6 years.
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Post by vermontsox1 on May 11, 2015 10:58:30 GMT -5
4 weeks until the draft...
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Post by mookiemagicfan on May 11, 2015 11:09:46 GMT -5
Everything I've read on Cameron doesn't seem to be too glaring that he is a top 10 talent. I hope we don't go that route. But hey. We will not know for sure until June. So here's the to last 4 weeks of speculation!
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on May 11, 2015 11:44:26 GMT -5
Everything I've read on Cameron doesn't seem to be too glaring that he is a top 10 talent. I hope we don't go that route. But hey. We will not know for sure until June. So here's the to last 4 weeks of speculation! Too hyperbolic for me to feel comfortable
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Post by jimed14 on May 11, 2015 14:28:01 GMT -5
Starting to get a little more interested in Happ and Nikorak at 7.
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Post by Guidas on May 11, 2015 14:36:46 GMT -5
Bueller, please. He's coming from a power conference and the biggest hit I can find on him is his non-prototypical starter build (i.e. he's built more or less like a Sonny Grey - or the preponderance of the pitchers who went 200+ innings a year from the 1930 to the 1980s).
Added benefit - with his command, control and gas, if Sox are still in it in Sept he could actually be a call-up candidate for the pen.
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Post by pedroelgrande on May 11, 2015 16:28:15 GMT -5
Anybody good please.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2015 16:30:49 GMT -5
He won't be available at #7.
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Post by James Dunne on May 11, 2015 16:43:18 GMT -5
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,583
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Post by radiohix on May 11, 2015 17:12:21 GMT -5
Question: Let's say the FO checks the medical records of Aiken and the doctors can't have a definitive opinion on his health going forward, why not draft him and make him go through all the necessary tests : If he checks all the boxes, sign him and if not, make him a minimal offer which I'm sure he'll turn down and get the pick for next year loaded draft? Can't see a downside to it really..What do you guys think?
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Post by jmei on May 11, 2015 17:46:16 GMT -5
Question: Let's say the FO checks the medical records of Aiken and the doctors can't have a definitive opinion on his health going forward, why not draft him and make him go through all the necessary tests : If he checks all the boxes, sign him and if not, make him a minimal offer which I'm sure he'll turn down and get the pick for next year loaded draft? Can't see a downside to it really..What do you guys think? This is a more realistic scenario for "punting" the pick, but it still doesn't really work. The issue is that I'd not sure what test results will be available by the signing deadline-- it'll be less than four months after his surgery and he won't have started throwing yet, and I'm not sure if an MRI at that point will tell you anything useful. When Tommy John surgery fails for guys, they don't know about it until they start throwing again and either continue to suffer pain/discomfort or the ligament tears again, and Aiken won't have progressed to that stage by July 15. So there won't be useful boxes to check, which means you have to either take a leap of faith (i.e., draft him and sign him to a sizable bonus even though you won't really know if the surgery takes) or negotiate in bad faith (i.e., draft him and try to come up with any little excuse not to offer him a bonus at least approaching slot), neither of which is all that appealing.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2015 20:26:11 GMT -5
I think that plan would've made more sense when you had a year to sign a guy after drafting him.
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Post by telson13 on May 12, 2015 1:26:23 GMT -5
Question: Let's say the FO checks the medical records of Aiken and the doctors can't have a definitive opinion on his health going forward, why not draft him and make him go through all the necessary tests : If he checks all the boxes, sign him and if not, make him a minimal offer which I'm sure he'll turn down and get the pick for next year loaded draft? Can't see a downside to it really..What do you guys think? This is a more realistic scenario for "punting" the pick, but it still doesn't really work. The issue is that I'd not sure what test results will be available by the signing deadline-- it'll be less than four months after his surgery and he won't have started throwing yet, and I'm not sure if an MRI at that point will tell you anything useful. When Tommy John surgery fails for guys, they don't know about it until they start throwing again and either continue to suffer pain/discomfort or the ligament tears again, and Aiken won't have progressed to that stage by July 15. So there won't be useful boxes to check, which means you have to either take a leap of faith (i.e., draft him and sign him to a sizable bonus even though you won't really know if the surgery takes) or negotiate in bad faith (i.e., draft him and try to come up with any little excuse not to offer him a bonus at least approaching slot), neither of which is all that appealing. They don't necessarily have to make a "bad faith" attempt, though. They're protected from not signing him by getting the eighth pick next year, so why not draft him and *try* to sign him, at least to a reasonable deal for both sides. If they offered him, say, 70% of slot (figuring he would probably drop well into the mid to late first round without them), he's still getting a bigger bonus than he is likely to get elsewhere. I still contend that, because TJ is replacement and not repair, unless he has some rare connective tissue disease like Ehlers-Danlos, the risk of him not coming back is really no different from anyone else. If the Sox get him under-slot, they can probably pick up at least one other quality talent to reduce the pain if Aiken doesn't pan out. If he does, they get a bargain. And if he doesn't sign, they get what will probably be a more valuable pick in next year's draft.
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Post by jmei on May 12, 2015 5:45:53 GMT -5
That's a different scenario, and one I could get behind. If you've talked to his agent and he'd sign underslot and the guys they really like are gone (Bregman and the stud college pitchers), it might make a lot of sense. You'd still have to be comfortable enough with the injury risk (the way I hear it is that the spot where the ligament connects to the bone is congenitally small, which maybe means higher risk of re-injury (the graft is more likely to fail since it's got a smaller anchor point)), and I'm not sure if that overslot money does you a lot of good if your next pick is in round 3, though.
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