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9/11-9/14 Red Sox @ Royals Series Thread
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Post by ray88h66 on Sept 13, 2014 14:38:58 GMT -5
The Cards/ Red Sox trade could be one that hurts both teams.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 13, 2014 15:10:09 GMT -5
Not many would pitch a full season knowing they were in need of an elbow reconstruction like lackey did. Saying he was trying to avoid the free season in his deal won't hold water. He still had 3 left on it at the time. Lackey is a hard nosed competitor, nothing else. Maybe something certain NE types just can't figure out, like the majority of the media there. Lackey was one of the whipping boys for Boston since he signed there, yet he took the ball whenever he could/was able and did a good job when he was healthy, certainly not deserving the negative nonsense some shove at him, that is what should have been shoved at the Beckett's and Clement's they have piled wasted cash onto. Agree on Clement and Lackey. But, didn't Beckett help this franchise win a World Championship? That should be worth piling some cash onto.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Sept 13, 2014 15:25:58 GMT -5
Allen Craig, unfortunately, strikes me as a guy who had a big year at age 27. Since he is still owed $25 million over the next three years, he's a pretty big risk.
Joe Kelly, on the other hand, strikes me as a pretty fair back of the rotation guy with 3-4 years of control. That's probably enough to make the trade okay.
Nonetheless, given the terms of Lackey's contract and his post-season resume, I think they should gotten a higher return. I have to think a small market team like Pittsburgh would have parted with a decent package of prospects for a low cost better than mid-rotation starter.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 13, 2014 17:05:21 GMT -5
Not many would pitch a full season knowing they were in need of an elbow reconstruction like lackey did. Saying he was trying to avoid the free season in his deal won't hold water. He still had 3 left on it at the time. Lackey is a hard nosed competitor, nothing else. Maybe something certain NE types just can't figure out, like the majority of the media there. Lackey was one of the whipping boys for Boston since he signed there, yet he took the ball whenever he could/was able and did a good job when he was healthy, certainly not deserving the negative nonsense some shove at him, that is what should have been shoved at the Beckett's and Clement's they have piled wasted cash onto. Someone already pointed this out, but Clement, from all but a medical POV, was a brilliant signing, arguably Theo's best. They targeted a guy everyone knew had the stuff to be a frontline starter, and signed him, and he turned into one of the three best pitchers in the league. (His ERA that year was blown up by literally the worst luck with inherited runners I've ever seen -- on several occasions, he left with 2 outs and one or two runners on and the number 9, or 8 and 9, hitters due up, and all of the runs scored and were charged to him. IIRC, it added something like 0.35 to his ERA relative to merely average relief. Despite which he spent the entire first half on the ERA leader board.) His shoulder started fraying and he was still really good. He took a line drive off the skull, came back with the shoulder fraying more, and was still very good. Then he started to suck terribly, and next year when they finally looked at his shoulder -- which he claimed didn't hurt him -- it was literally damaged beyond repair. So you have to buy the pain claim -- he pitched long past the point where others would have stopped and hence tore the muscles to spaghetti. People remember this as an unwise signing because the outcome was bad. But that's nonsense. It's even possible that his medicals were fine when they signed him, so we don't even know if they dropped the ball there (nor do we know whether the damage they eventually found was the sort that was easy to spot with MRI).
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Post by mgoetze on Sept 13, 2014 18:18:46 GMT -5
Hm, so Farrell randomly decided to put an actual major league lineup out there today. And the pitcher is batting 8th!
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Post by mgoetze on Sept 13, 2014 18:25:39 GMT -5
Vazquez having a bad day.
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Post by taftreign on Sept 13, 2014 19:21:43 GMT -5
Betts at 2b. I'd expected we could see some of this with Castillo set to join the Red Sox mid next week to make room in the OF in joint with Pedroia's season end. I could see even splits between Weeks and him for the remainder of the season while moving to the OF for most of the rest.
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danr
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Post by danr on Sept 13, 2014 20:05:40 GMT -5
Unless I am thinking of a different pitcher, it seems to me the Sox used to pound Guthrie. Not now. Did he get better?
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Sept 13, 2014 20:26:18 GMT -5
Unless I am thinking of a different pitcher, it seems to me the Sox used to pound Guthrie. Not now. Did he get better? Yeah, it's the same pitcher we used to pound and I don't think he's getting better, he's still the fly ball/low strike outs pitcher he used to be, who's playing in front of better defense in a bigger park.
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Post by mgoetze on Sept 13, 2014 20:32:24 GMT -5
Vazquez having a bad day. Seriously, what's wrong with him today?
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Post by godot on Sept 13, 2014 20:33:35 GMT -5
Doubrant pitching another good game against the hot Pirates for the Cubs. Peavy has been great for SF. And Sizemore is doing very well with the Phils. Lackey,meh. Miller of course is lights out. Lester of course continues and without Ross. Oh I forget, the smartest guy in the room ( sorry Eric) said that umps were giving him brakes.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 13, 2014 20:35:26 GMT -5
Doubrant pitching another good game against the hot Pirates for the Cubs. Peavy has been great for SF. And Sizemore is doing very well with the Phils. Lackey,meh. Miller of course is lights out. Lester of course continues and without Ross. Oh I forget, the smartest guy in the room ( sorry Eric) said that umps were giving him brakes. Damn John Henry for getting rid of Doubront, Peavy and Sizemore. We should have kept them.
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Post by jmei on Sept 13, 2014 20:43:27 GMT -5
Doubront has a 3.75 K/9 and a 4.76 SIERA as a Cub. Peavy is pitching to weaker hitters in a home stadium/division which is pretty much ideally suited to his extreme fly ball status. Grady Sizemore has an unsustainably high .336 BABIP. Lester has seen his strikeout rate drop from 9.38 K/9 in Boston to 7.94 K/9 in Oakland.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,345
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Post by radiohix on Sept 13, 2014 20:49:49 GMT -5
Barnes BABIP during that inning was 100% LOL
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,935
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 13, 2014 21:03:27 GMT -5
Doubrant pitching another good game against the hot Pirates for the Cubs. Peavy has been great for SF. And Sizemore is doing very well with the Phils. Lackey,meh. Miller of course is lights out. Lester of course continues and without Ross. Oh I forget, the smartest guy in the room ( sorry Eric) said that umps were giving him brakes. Disc or drum? Derek Norris has been catching Lester in Oakland, and they have terrific framing numbers working together while Norris is below average with everyone else. Fortunately, BP has all that data online and when the season is over I'll see if, in fact, there are pitchers who get better framing results regardless of catcher, which would indicate a problem with the metric.* It's likely that there are pitchers who can get better framing results consistently, but their metric should give that credit to them, not the catchers. *I've already spotted two problems with it in addition to the one I spotted earlier that I haven't re-checked.
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Post by ethanbein on Sept 13, 2014 21:13:21 GMT -5
Doubrant pitching another good game against the hot Pirates for the Cubs. Peavy has been great for SF. And Sizemore is doing very well with the Phils. Lackey,meh. Miller of course is lights out. Lester of course continues and without Ross. Oh I forget, the smartest guy in the room ( sorry Eric) said that umps were giving him brakes. Disc or drum? Derek Norris has been catching Lester in Oakland, and they have terrific framing numbers working together while Norris is below average with everyone else. Fortunately, BP has all that data online and when the season is over I'll see if, in fact, there are pitchers who get better framing results regardless of catcher, which would indicate a problem with the metric.* It's likely that there are pitchers who can get better framing results consistently, but their metric should give that credit to them, not the catchers. *I've already spotted two problems with it in addition to the one I spotted earlier that I haven't re-checked. The metric does attempt to control for the framing results a pitcher gets with other catchers using a WOWY calculation.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 13, 2014 21:40:39 GMT -5
Sox were zero for three with runners in scoring position tonight.
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Post by godot on Sept 13, 2014 21:48:40 GMT -5
I get a kick out of you guys. Just scribbled something about ex-sox and no commentary and your hair rises and infer different things. Of course, the smartest guy in the room has to show that he is the smartest guy in the room. Predictable. Does he have another life. I wonder how much time of his life he wasted on his post, silly boy.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 13, 2014 22:39:52 GMT -5
Man, it's getting snippy in here.
Let's just wait until the off season before we confirm our 20-20 hindsight. I, for one, can't wait to see if Ben rebounds with a good winter leaving us feeling that all is well come April 1 and the Sox look like a dominant playoff team OR we confirm that the 2013-13 off season was the GM equivalent of a .400 BABIP year for him and he's more like what we saw in the off seasons of 2011-12 and 2013-14 (I truly hope the latter isn't the case and that there's actual, solid, winning plan about to be executed).
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 13, 2014 22:56:03 GMT -5
Doubront has a 3.75 K/9 and a 4.76 SIERA as a Cub. Peavy is pitching to weaker hitters in a home stadium/division which is pretty much ideally suited to his extreme fly ball status. Grady Sizemore has an unsustainably high .336 BABIP. Lester has seen his strikeout rate drop from 9.38 K/9 in Boston to 7.94 K/9 in Oakland. But other than that you're wrong, or whatever the Alou post was about (:
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,935
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 13, 2014 23:41:45 GMT -5
Disc or drum? Derek Norris has been catching Lester in Oakland, and they have terrific framing numbers working together while Norris is below average with everyone else. Fortunately, BP has all that data online and when the season is over I'll see if, in fact, there are pitchers who get better framing results regardless of catcher, which would indicate a problem with the metric.* It's likely that there are pitchers who can get better framing results consistently, but their metric should give that credit to them, not the catchers. *I've already spotted two problems with it in addition to the one I spotted earlier that I haven't re-checked. The metric does attempt to control for the framing results a pitcher gets with other catchers using a WOWY calculation. I know it's attempting to do that; the question is whether it's succeeding or not.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 14, 2014 0:41:37 GMT -5
What is more important to a pitchers mental state, whether the catcher is good at framing pitches or whether the pitcher perceives the catcher is good at framing pitches?
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Post by soxcentral on Sept 14, 2014 7:01:46 GMT -5
Does anyone know if you can set the IGNORE option on someone to include their posts when it is quoted as well?
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 14, 2014 13:34:12 GMT -5
Not many would pitch a full season knowing they were in need of an elbow reconstruction like lackey did. Saying he was trying to avoid the free season in his deal won't hold water. He still had 3 left on it at the time. Lackey is a hard nosed competitor, nothing else. Maybe something certain NE types just can't figure out, like the majority of the media there. Lackey was one of the whipping boys for Boston since he signed there, yet he took the ball whenever he could/was able and did a good job when he was healthy, certainly not deserving the negative nonsense some shove at him, that is what should have been shoved at the Beckett's and Clement's they have piled wasted cash onto. Agree on Clement and Lackey. But, didn't Beckett help this franchise win a World Championship? That should be worth piling some cash onto. Opinion on Beckett was always his commitment to staying/getting into shape and mostly earlier in his career. Anyone remember his S/T shots from '08 as an example of what he looked like coming into camp and looked like later on in camp? A fore bearer of things to come the Sox would see over the rest of his time in a Sox uniform. Becket didn't like to do anything over the winter, preferring to sit and do nothing, then show up at S/T with a gut and it could be why he never turned the corner on being one of the better pitchers (year in and out) of the decade, rather than getting shamed by the media, fans, ownership as he was after putting up and being shown to be capable of putting up such fine numbers as he was in Miami and in Boston early on that he would let things slide, like taking care of himself over the winter. The way ball players had done it several decades back, but no more when they could report to the cam and get themselves into shape. When Beckett started using every spring to lose weight, rather than fine tune and not his fault, but this one on Epstein, the giveaway of an additional 68m to him, when his velocity was decreased did get one guy to where he deserved to be a whipping boy finally in the eyes of a few of the NE media types who refused to see past anything beyond his '07 contributions for years. Clement may have been a mistake Eric, mentioned that with his addition earlier. However his arm troubles after getting hit in the face were from changing his mechanics. He's not the only MLB hurler to hit in the head and not be able to go back out there, then change his delivery. Saberhagen was a risky sign for Duquette, probably none bigger than allowing Tiant walk (to NY) for Mike Torrez.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 14, 2014 13:44:28 GMT -5
The Lackey deal was the main thing that concerned me from the get go, but 10 million a year is not that big of an albatross compared to what most teams have. I think they wanted to buy low on him and they can always trade him (even though they'd probably have to pay some of the money left.)
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