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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,950
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 18, 2014 19:44:26 GMT -5
To Gammons' claim that Panda's home ballpark has hurt him, the numbers seem to show the opposite. In his career, he's .313/.365/.488 for an OPS of .853 at home and .277/328/.443 for an OPS of .771 on the road. BABIP is a factor here. He's .327 at home and .299 on the road.
In 2014, he was .293/.342/.432 for an OPS of.774 at home and .266/.308/.399 for an OPS of .707 on the road. Again, BABIP accounts for some of it: .314 at home and .286 on the road.
I also have to take issue with those who say he can become a DH when his lard-bod keeps him from playing the field. His OPS-plus has gone from 123 to 116 to 111 in the last three years. He's heading toward a level of production that simply isn't enough for a DH.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 18, 2014 19:48:54 GMT -5
Just because Sandoval carries more weight than he probably should does not mean he is out of shape. Every scouting report I have read on him points out how agile he is in the field, with quick reactions and a strong arm. Heavy people can be in shape. I know. I am both, although not as heavy by any means as Sandoval, but then not nearly as quick. There is actually some merit to this. Some people are just naturally heavier, and can still be athletic for their size and the skillset they bring. With that said, I'd still be concerned with him adding additional weight, but if he can stay around his playing weight now of 240 he could be fine for another several years. Your body has a weight it wants to be at, and the Panda gaining most of the weight back during the season could be just that as he focuses on playing baseball every single day and not cutting calories and running on the treadmill everyday. I actually think Panda can be just as good as he's been the last several years for the next several years. My only issue is just that, aside from the post season he's really been a marginally better than average player. Yes above average, but not nearly anywhere near $18-$20 million a year territory. He would be a significant upgrade at 3B compared to what we've had recently and for at least a few years, he would make this team better however.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 20:00:24 GMT -5
BC&Co. had better be in the "All In" mode as they publicized. The 3B market especially is becoming a scarcity. Good deals are already taking place at a rapid pace this off-season. Though I'm believer of spending $$$ wisely and patiently as they are,I personally would overpay for Sandoval at 6/100+ for obvious reasons,but will BC&Co.do the same? Honestly,I think Pablo is just flirting to jack up a deal from S.F. Why not?,he's their homegrown folk hero and he's earned it. Of course...I'd be with Open Arms and pleasantly surprised if we did land him!...especially after the public weight comments...not the way to promote guys! But...whether we land him or not...at least get Lester back!
BC&Co...NOW is time to bend the spending rules! Are you guys Poker Players or not?? Until you and Front Office prove otherwise...you folks still hold a "lame duck" status with me. You guys screwed up the team's Chemistry this year...get smart,get aggressive,get the team back on track!!
Until a Big Name Deal takes place,I advise to shop smaller for the 3B void. I stick with a small minority for a D.Murphy deal to "still" get done. Many have frowned over such a move. What I see is a smaller name in the market that I feel will provide us with the Chemistry,Spark,Balance,and Consistency that will properly blend with our present team. Plus the $$ make sense. I know the Met's brought Cuddyer on board,but I think a "Murphy and Pitchers deal" is still in play. Headley,Ramirez,Callaspo,etc. aren't coming to town. Way too much competition for the passive-minded Front Office to deal with. Besides,I feel they just wouldn't blend well. In-house,I don't trust our 3B's in the farm as of yet. Personally,I feel Murphy's the best fit..hands down! A majority don't have that vision for him fitting with Sox,I do. I see he and Pedroia feeding off each other...playing their part in contagiously re-igniting the team's Chemistry that has grown stagnant. Though he is not Dustin...he's similar,personality and all. He has been and will still be a Top25 in BA,Hits,2B's for years to come. The bottom line he's a LHB,he's consistent and gets on base,just like Pedrioa! While leading the way with All-Star D.Wright injured,he himself proved to be an undervalued leader paving his way to All-Star status. For those who rag on his D...I see a player who still has great reaction and a good enough arm. Playing 3B again in Fenway will give him a smaller zone to cover and should cut down on his errors. Besides,everyone makes errors at sometime or another. As long as Napoli,Pedrioa,and other's heal/Xander,Rusney,Mookie and others continue to prove their worth...Daniel Murphy to the Sox as an extremely beneficial addition. Ben...keep pestering the Wilbon's. Don't wait until he's a FA,get him on the team this off-season so he can plant his feet. Send whomever you need to send,find a way to get a deal done and sign him for for 4/40M+. You won't regret it.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Nov 18, 2014 20:03:55 GMT -5
I also have to take issue with those who say he can become a DH when his lard-bod keeps him from playing the field. His OPS-plus has gone from 123 to 116 to 111 in the last three years. He's heading toward a level of production that simply isn't enough for a DH.[/quote]
Bingo! I'm not a fan of tubby baseball players. Expecting an athlete to stay in shape is kinda like demanding your secretary be able to type. Sprry danr, out of shape athletes aren't ones you should be signing to long-tetm contracts. Heay be the exception. But, odds are that his body breaks down.
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Post by mredsox89 on Nov 18, 2014 20:12:38 GMT -5
Just because you are heavy/overweight doesn't mean you are out of shape. Some of the biggest guys in the NFL are freak athletes.
Not necessarily saying that's a direct correlation to Sandoval, but most reports mention at worst average athleticism.
If the thought is he can spend 3-4 years at 3B, then you can deal with a year or two as a 1B/DH, even if he doesn't necessarily bring surplus value as a hitter at that position. But if he's only a 2-3 year 3B, that's where it becomes a major issue, where he spends the majority of the contract as a league average hitter at a major bat position
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2014 20:14:50 GMT -5
Murphy would be a nice option but I don't know what the Mets could want from the Red Sox that the Sox would give up. The Mets don't need an OF now. They don't need a pitcher. They won't want prospects now (maybe at the deadline). If they deal him they'd need a second baseman and they do need a SS but we don't have that. If they are trying to contend a bit next year but not add much more pay roll, then I can't see how the Sox get Murphy.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2014 20:18:32 GMT -5
Just because you are heavy/overweight doesn't mean you are out of shape. Some of the biggest guys in the NFL are freak athletes. Not necessarily saying that's a direct correlation to Sandoval, but most reports mention at worst average athleticism. If the thought is he can spend 3-4 years at 3B, then you can deal with a year or two as a 1B/DH, even if he doesn't necessarily bring surplus value as a hitter at that position. But if he's only a 2-3 year 3B, that's where it becomes a major issue, where he spends the majority of the contract as a league average hitter at a major bat position Regardless whether you feel he's overweight at the weight he played at during the year, his work ethic had been called into question and public ally by his employer. I would be hesitant to be the team to give the big money long term deal to the player with questionable work ethic. This his the same player who's more concerned about years than money. He's not even planning on having a second big contract.... Maybe it's because he wants to cash in and be lazy.... Maybe not, but if I have to wonder that at all then it's not worth the risk. And yes it's a legit question and there are plenty of guys you don't question...
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Nov 18, 2014 20:21:59 GMT -5
Sandoval is going to eat his way out of the league within the next three years ala Kevin Mitchell. The fact that he gained 20 pounds or more during last season should set off alarm bells. The lack of power and declining production over the last four years is not promising either. Huge mistake if the Red Sox sign him.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 18, 2014 20:44:36 GMT -5
its going to happen
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 21:03:39 GMT -5
Murphy would be a nice option but I don't know what the Mets could want from the Red Sox that the Sox would give up. The Mets don't need an OF now. They don't need a pitcher. They won't want prospects now (maybe at the deadline). If they deal him they'd need a second baseman and they do need a SS but we don't have that. If they are trying to contend a bit next year but not add much more pay roll, then I can't see how the Sox get Murphy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 21:46:58 GMT -5
I agree with your opinion. It's obvious that it would be tricky and sorted to pry away Murphy at this point,but not impossible. Heck why not just wait until FA? I think he's that he's that of a big fit for the team,that's why I'd like to see the Sox push for him now not later...to be fair and let him plant his roots and blend in. There are a few ideas that can be offered to the Mets.
1. Salary Relief- Though I would prefer not to,we could take Colon/$11M off their hands and stick him at #4or#5 for 1yr. or less. 2. Hitting/INF+OF options- We can offer any 1or2 of Holt,Merrero,Craig,or even Nava,cheap and manageable contracts with good upside. 3. Pitching Replacements can be offered. Webster,Barnes...heck even Owens could expand a deal for them let go of a #2-#4 pitcher.(Neise/Gee/Montero...though doubtful maybe Wheeler) 4. Maybe toss some Cash their way,or a combination of all. *I don't really know what BC could pull together,I'd like to see him get creative. Murphy is that big a deal for me. The pickings are getting slim on the market...it's worth a shot.*
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 18, 2014 22:59:09 GMT -5
BC&Co. had better be in the "All In" mode as they publicized. The 3B market especially is becoming a scarcity. Good deals are already taking place at a rapid pace this off-season. Though I'm believer of spending $$$ wisely and patiently as they are,I personally would overpay for Sandoval at 6/100+ for obvious reasons,but will BC&Co.do the same? Honestly,I think Pablo is just flirting to jack up a deal from S.F. Why not?,he's their homegrown folk hero and he's earned it. Of course...I'd be with Open Arms and pleasantly surprised if we did land him!...especially after the public weight comments...not the way to promote guys! But...whether we land him or not...at least get Lester back! BC&Co...NOW is time to bend the spending rules! Are you guys Poker Players or not?? Until you and Front Office prove otherwise...you folks still hold a "lame duck" status with me. You guys screwed up the team's Chemistry this year...get smart,get aggressive,get the team back on track!! Until a Big Name Deal takes place,I advise to shop smaller for the 3B void. I stick with a small minority for a D.Murphy deal to "still" get done. Many have frowned over such a move. What I see is a smaller name in the market that I feel will provide us with the Chemistry,Spark,Balance,and Consistency that will properly blend with our present team. Plus the $$ make sense. I know the Met's brought Cuddyer on board,but I think a "Murphy and Pitchers deal" is still in play. Headley,Ramirez,Callaspo,etc. aren't coming to town. Way too much competition for the passive-minded Front Office to deal with. Besides,I feel they just wouldn't blend well. In-house,I don't trust our 3B's in the farm as of yet. Personally,I feel Murphy's the best fit..hands down! A majority don't have that vision for him fitting with Sox,I do. I see he and Pedroia feeding off each other...playing their part in contagiously re-igniting the team's Chemistry that has grown stagnant. Though he is not Dustin...he's similar,personality and all. He has been and will still be a Top25 in BA,Hits,2B's for years to come. The bottom line he's a LHB,he's consistent and gets on base,just like Pedrioa! While leading the way with All-Star D.Wright injured,he himself proved to be an undervalued leader paving his way to All-Star status. For those who rag on his D...I see a player who still has great reaction and a good enough arm. Playing 3B again in Fenway will give him a smaller zone to cover and should cut down on his errors. Besides,everyone makes errors at sometime or another. As long as Napoli,Pedrioa,and other's heal/Xander,Rusney,Mookie and others continue to prove their worth...Daniel Murphy to the Sox as an extremely beneficial addition. Ben...keep pestering the Wilbon's. Don't wait until he's a FA,get him on the team this off-season so he can plant his feet. Send whomever you need to send,find a way to get a deal done and sign him for for 4/40M+. You won't regret it. How did the front office screw up team chemistry? The 2013 Red Sox won because everybody had a good year and the few that didn't like Hanrahan and Bailey and WMB worked like a charm because if they hadn't been so terrible the Sox would never have known how historically good a closer Uehara could be or how well Bogaerts would play in the post-season. 2013 was a perfect storm of everything going right while 2014 was largely the same team minus Ellsbury and Saltalamacchia having a year where just about everything went wrong. It was chemistry or "chemistry needing to be reignited"? No, it was crappy ballplaying a year after inspired consistently excellent ballplaying. In 2015 the Red Sox need better players and better performances from players having an injured or down year in 2014.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Nov 19, 2014 0:55:19 GMT -5
Have to admit that I'll be a little disheartened if/when we sign Sandoval. There are better options out there that we barely explored, and on the surface it looks like more of a marketing move than a baseball move. Sure Panda apparel will fly of the shelves, but when he gets hurt or doesn't perform up to his contract, the team suffers. Unless the Red Sox brass have found something to lead them to believe he'll kill it in the AL East, I don't like it.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 19, 2014 0:57:30 GMT -5
RT @larrybeilabc7: Take a deep breath. I'm told #RedSox have not made an offer to Pablo Sandoval at this point
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 19, 2014 0:59:17 GMT -5
Have to admit that I'll be a little disheartened if/when we sign Sandoval. There are better options out there that we barely explored, and on the surface it looks like more of a marketing move than a baseball move. Sure Panda apparel will fly of the shelves, but when he gets hurt or doesn't perform up to his contract, the team suffers. Unless the Red Sox brass have found something to lead them to believe he'll kill it in the AL East, I don't like it. there really are no "better" options out there to be frank. A's are not trading their 3B, if the yankees want Chase Headley back, good luck outbidding them, or do outbid them and end up with a craptasitc contract.... And the FA pool is crap for the foreseeable future... (at 3B) edit and gets hurt? www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sandopa01.shtml?redirCome on, you can hate the move, but dont make up crap, the guy is durable... since his first full season in 2009 he has played 153 152 117 108 141 157 Yes he can get hurt, but so can any other player
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 19, 2014 1:00:05 GMT -5
RT @larrybeilabc7: Take a deep breath. I'm told #RedSox have not made an offer to Pablo Sandoval at this point He must mean we can all exhale?
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 19, 2014 1:01:02 GMT -5
Third Basemen Joaquin Arias (31) Mike Aviles (35) Adrian Beltre (37) – $16MM vesting option Willie Bloomquist (38) Kevin Frandsen (34) David Freese (33) Jonathan Herrera (31) Maicer Izturis (35) – $3MM club option with a $1MM buyout Don Kelly (36) Jeff Keppinger (36) Kevin Kouzmanoff (34) Casey McGehee (32) Donnie Murphy (33) Aramis Ramirez (38) Sean Rodriguez (31) Adam Rosales (33) Juan Uribe (37) www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/09/2016-mlb-free-agents.html
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Post by charliezink16 on Nov 19, 2014 1:23:34 GMT -5
Murphy would be a nice option but I don't know what the Mets could want from the Red Sox that the Sox would give up. The Mets don't need an OF now. They don't need a pitcher. They won't want prospects now (maybe at the deadline). If they deal him they'd need a second baseman and they do need a SS but we don't have that. If they are trying to contend a bit next year but not add much more pay roll, then I can't see how the Sox get Murphy. SSS but Dilson Herrera had a 103 OPS+ in 59 AB's, is a better defender at 2B, and is seen as a future starter for the Mets. I wouldn't be surprised if Murphy is dealt and he's their opening day 2B. With that being said, yes they don't need an OF'er anymore, which is unfortunate because I saw Cespedes as a perfect fit for the Mets in left.
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Post by bentossaurus on Nov 19, 2014 2:10:26 GMT -5
A majority don't have that vision for him fitting with Sox,I do. I see he and Pedroia feeding off each other...playing their part in contagiously re-igniting the team's Chemistry that has grown stagnant. Though he is not Dustin...he's similar,personality and all. He has been and will still be a Top25 in BA,Hits,2B's for years to come. The bottom line he's a LHB,he's consistent and gets on base,just like Pedrioa! While leading the way with All-Star D.Wright injured,he himself proved to be an undervalued leader paving his way to All-Star status. For those who rag on his D...I see a player who still has great reaction and a good enough arm. Playing 3B again in Fenway will give him a smaller zone to cover and should cut down on his errors. Besides,everyone makes errors at sometime or another. As long as Napoli,Pedrioa,and other's heal/Xander,Rusney,Mookie and others continue to prove their worth...Daniel Murphy to the Sox as an extremely beneficial addition. Is the infield at Fenway smaller at the 3B size like LF is and I missed it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 3:00:47 GMT -5
RE:redsox040713champs. While researching your history to find out who I'm talking to and to see what makes you tick, I must say I like your writing style and your stance on many points of interest. Though you don't know me,I am a near 40yr.fanatic of the Sox. I take my team and it's chemistry very seriously. I share in your opinions with much of what you say in your 100's of postings. Your beliefs toward the team and its happenings are basically parallel to mine. I like your honesty,your sarcasm,your insight,and even your defensive nature as a fan of the Sox with other Posters. You're quite the vocal guy...in a good way of course,very much like myself. I,unlike you,don't tend not to dilly with forums online because I prefer face to face conversations and debates. Typing is slow and boring,thus my conversations tend to be short-lived/very few postings. When I do get involved though,it's because I have alot of time on my hands,am having great concerns about the team's dealings or in this case, being put on the spot. Well,I'll offer you my point of you in volley. I'm like any other Sox fan..I and my kids want to see them win and make the right moves. I will get very vocal when the time comes when I see some concerning issues and negative developments in the team's state of affairs and involve myself online. True, 2013 was the perfect storm/great chemistry,I might even say it was a miraculous fluke of a sort. I as a fan will take the Titles anyway they come after such a long drought. I personally have always kept a watchful eye with the front office over the years because I'm a businessman just like them. I think BC&Co. have done a commendable job thus far,up only until recently,in the early-mid points of this past year in '14. I feel they waited far too long in dealing with their soon-to-be FA's. Though we'll never truly know what they could have got in return with all their moves,some were respectable. Decent returns in Cespedes,Kelly,Rodriguez but that's about it. They did gain a little appreciation back from me with the Castillo signing. In the end though,some poor business dealings were allowed to go unattended. In respect with you being a Veteran Poster,I'm not going to get into an argument with what our separate opinions are about the meaning of "Chemistry". I will defend myself though. My viewpoint is that a negative message was sent Team-Wide by not seeking to reward our Ace J.Lester with his hard-earned and well-deserved contract extension. I got it,he got sent sailing for bluer waters because they couldn't afford Jon. That's all good..sad..but all good with me. On the other hand,not replacing him with like a Quality Ace was just irresponsible and idiotic. Thinking that Buchholz and the Farm could hold the fort for the time-being...well let's just say that move has left me pissed ever since. A true baseball fan knows you can't win without a proper pitching alignment,lopsidedness will eventually fail. Yes,I agree a positive was seen with the play from the youngsters and such,that I can't deny. But now,here we are watching the off-season float on by with Jonny as a FA,and we sit pleading for his return. How desperate is that? It's poor business,plain and simple. We may get him,we may not. Thus my concern over the recent passive-minded idiocy the Front Office as a whole has put on display.
When you cut the head off a snake it essentially is still alive...aimless but still alive nonetheless. Take a steering wheel out a car,sooner or later it's going to crash. In a nutshell, the very state BC&Co. left the team mid-season this year. They allowed the head/Ace of the team to be cut off and hoped the team could wriggle and try desperately to survive and eventually crash. Eventually enter injury and in conclusion,the Front Office play their part in f***ing up the team's Chemistry,period. If still have a difference of opinion on the meaning of Chemistry and what it to the meant to the player's then go ahead and ask about their opinions on some of those moves and see what they would say...I bet much of them reply with a completely opposite response than mine...."no comment".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 3:16:00 GMT -5
A majority don't have that vision for him fitting with Sox,I do. I see he and Pedroia feeding off each other...playing their part in contagiously re-igniting the team's Chemistry that has grown stagnant. Though he is not Dustin...he's similar,personality and all. He has been and will still be a Top25 in BA,Hits,2B's for years to come. The bottom line he's a LHB,he's consistent and gets on base,just like Pedrioa! While leading the way with All-Star D.Wright injured,he himself proved to be an undervalued leader paving his way to All-Star status. For those who rag on his D...I see a player who still has great reaction and a good enough arm. Playing 3B again in Fenway will give him a smaller zone to cover and should cut down on his errors. Besides,everyone makes errors at sometime or another. As long as Napoli,Pedrioa,and other's heal/Xander,Rusney,Mookie and others continue to prove their worth...Daniel Murphy to the Sox as an extremely beneficial addition. Is the infield at Fenway smaller at the 3B size like LF is and I missed it? Hello....Murphy switching from 2B to his original position at 3B. A less demanding postion for his skill-set. Don't ya know all MLB infield dimensions are the same? Wow!
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 19, 2014 7:54:27 GMT -5
Bstrong, I'm certainly a believer in chemistry and how the pieces of a team fit together. Some here feel you can out any 4 WAR player into a team and the team will perform the exact same with those two because they are equal in WAR. I do think you're taking some of it a bit far though. The whole point of not replacing Lester with an Ace hasn't played out yet. You have to give them this offseason to do that. Typically, whenever you sell at the deadline you don't replace it at the same time.
The Sox intention was to use the rest of last year to see what they had with certain guys and get experience for some young players. The results weren't great but that's what they did.
Regarding Murphy, sure you can get him and those are some good insightful ways to do so but how much do you want to overpay for a solid not spectacular player who's a free agent in 10.5 months? Colon has issues, I wouldn't want him around my young pitchers not would I want him taking a spot from one of them out of the gate. He may be unreadable or I'd say do it and then just dump him.
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Post by soxfan06 on Nov 19, 2014 10:14:25 GMT -5
Have to admit that I'll be a little disheartened if/when we sign Sandoval. There are better options out there that we barely explored, and on the surface it looks like more of a marketing move than a baseball move. Sure Panda apparel will fly of the shelves, but when he gets hurt or doesn't perform up to his contract, the team suffers. Unless the Red Sox brass have found something to lead them to believe he'll kill it in the AL East, I don't like it. I know fans don't like to hear this, but the whole marketing aspect of things is just as important to the owners as the baseball aspect. It is a business afterall. Now I'm 100% sure owners aren't telling Ben C to go out and sign only marketable players, but rather are just happy and willing to spend more if we are interest in a guy that is very marketable.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 19, 2014 10:20:29 GMT -5
Is Sandaval really all that marketable? The people they want to market towards (aka the pink hats) have no clue who he is, nor should they. He's not a sexy signing.
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Post by soxfan06 on Nov 19, 2014 10:26:30 GMT -5
Is Sandaval really all that marketable? The people they want to market towards (aka the pink hats) have no clue who he is, nor should they. He's not a sexy signing. Of course he is. All the mommies and kiddies are going to love "Kung Fu Panda", buying all sorts of panda crap. They don't know who he is know, because they haven't had him shoved down their throats left. Sandoval is like Papi-lite. People will jump all over it. I've made it known that I'm not for signing Sandoval. Would much rather spend money on Hanley or go "cheap" with Headley, but I also wouldn't be making money marketing Sandoval.
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