SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2014 Wild Card Game gameday thread
|
Post by soxfanatic on Oct 1, 2014 14:52:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 1, 2014 15:00:08 GMT -5
Well then, Escobar was not the worst batter in the lineup against LHP. And I don't know how Dave can argue this anyway, because what analysis puts Escobar as a worse hitter than Infante or Moustakas?
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 1, 2014 20:00:25 GMT -5
I've always thought that Madison Bumgarner was Henry Owens' best-case scenario. Not a ton of velo (he's averaged 91-92 his entire career), but tons of swinging strikes on his fastball due to excellent deception and command.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 1, 2014 20:13:28 GMT -5
Brandon Crawford, of all people???
Sidenote: Shulman and Kruk are so, so much better than the TBS crew last night.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,824
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Oct 1, 2014 20:15:55 GMT -5
If Edinson Volquez ever was the SP for my teams WC game I would be extremely upset.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 1, 2014 20:42:36 GMT -5
Brandon Crawford, of all people??? Sidenote: Shulman and Kruk are so, so much better than the TBS crew last night. Kruk is much better in the booth than he is in the studio.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 1, 2014 20:58:44 GMT -5
Brandon Crawford, of all people??? Sidenote: Shulman and Kruk are so, so much better than the TBS crew last night. Kruk is much better in the booth than he is in the studio. Yes, this x1000. One of the things Kruk does better than almost any other color man out there is that he really seems to understand the flow of the game and when it's a good time to be quiet. He doesn't have the verbal diarrhea that most color men have. Also -- and I think it's just a part of calling a game being a three-hour conversation while studio work is more just hitting the talking points -- Kruk's sense of humor really shines through in the booth.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 1, 2014 21:29:40 GMT -5
Well this is somewhat less intriguing than last night.
It's tough watching the home team being gutted in an elimination game. PNC is just a giant pile of sad right now.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Oct 1, 2014 21:46:56 GMT -5
I'm happy pirates are losing. I've been rooting against them since they didn't make any moves at deadline. They deserve to lose. Didn't play to win the division.
Childish I know.
|
|
|
Post by kman22 on Oct 1, 2014 22:42:22 GMT -5
I'm happy pirates are losing. I've been rooting against them since they didn't make any moves at deadline. They deserve to lose. Didn't play to win the division. Childish I know. Still don't understand the lack of urgency at the deadline. They were poised to make waves, but they did absolutely nothing.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 2, 2014 7:30:32 GMT -5
I'm happy pirates are losing. I've been rooting against them since they didn't make any moves at deadline. They deserve to lose. Didn't play to win the division. Childish I know. Should have gone for it, like Billy Beane. Not to defend his trade deadline action too much, but overall, Huntington has done the job he was hired to do there. He inherited pretty much nothing and built a core of McCutchen, Marte, Polanco, Walker and Cole that will be competitive for years to come. Not to mention that they've become one of the better organizations in the game when it comes to getting value from scrapheap guys.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Oct 2, 2014 9:59:35 GMT -5
They deserved to lose, they had the division in their sights and decided to play for the wild card without an ace. A lot of their success revolves around McCutchen, who is as good as gone after 2018. Martin their second most valuable player is gone this year, and they also have 2 FA starting pitchers in an expensive market. Cubs will be good next year after an active offseason, and the Reds and Brewers as not going to be easy beat up teams. I don't have to comment on the Cardinals do I? I get that they have to develop players, but their time to win was now and they didn't go for it. Hopefully it works out for them in the future. I would of been rooting for them if they made a move.
As for Beane, I still think he made the right moves. The team collapsed, as Red Sox fans we should know it happens. The truth is no team can compete every year, and small market teams can't stay in competition as long as big market teams. I still would rather have the 3 year stretch we had than one with more wins and no title. Although the strategy we applied doesn't associate with what I was suggesting.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 2, 2014 13:15:55 GMT -5
They deserved to lose, they had the division in their sights and decided to play for the wild card without an ace. A lot of their success revolves around McCutchen, who is as good as gone after 2018. Martin their second most valuable player is gone this year, and they also have 2 FA starting pitchers in an expensive market. Cubs will be good next year after an active offseason, and the Reds and Brewers as not going to be easy beat up teams. I don't have to comment on the Cardinals do I? I get that they have to develop players, but their time to win was now and they didn't go for it. Hopefully it works out for them in the future. I would of been rooting for them if they made a move. As for Beane, I still think he made the right moves. The team collapsed, as Red Sox fans we should know it happens. The truth is no team can compete every year, and small market teams can't stay in competition as long as big market teams. I still would rather have the 3 year stretch we had than one with more wins and no title. Although the strategy we applied doesn't associate with what I was suggesting. Oh noes, their window is going to close in a mere half-decade. Again, I'm not saying that they made all right moves this year, but the core is good, locked down for quite a while, and probably hasn't collectively peaked yet. The division figures to be tough but that's not something that's easy to predict and certainly not something they can control. I'm just saying, they've been competitive for a few years, and they're going to continue to be competitive for the foreseeable future, and that's about a million times better than anything you could have said about that team in about the last two decades.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 2, 2014 13:30:41 GMT -5
Considering the coin-flip nature of the playoffs, I generally think trying to open a long window of contention (like the one the Pirates might be setting up for themselves, with a solid major league roster, a good GM/manager, and a very good farm system) is preferable to a one-year "go-for-it" strategy. Sure, trading Taillon for Price would have made them really good this year, but they'd still be more likely than not to go home empty-handed, and now you've made competing in 2015 and beyond that much more difficult.
|
|
|
Post by soxfanatic on Oct 2, 2014 13:34:58 GMT -5
Considering the coin-flip nature of the playoffs, I generally think trying to open a long window of contention (like the one the Pirates might be setting up for themselves, with a solid major league roster, a good GM/manager, and a very good farm system) is preferable to a one-year "go-for-it" strategy. Sure, trading Taillon for Price would have made them really good this year, but they'd still be more likely than not to go home empty-handed, and now you've made competing in 2015 and beyond that much more difficult. You know Price is under contract for 2015, so that move would've basically set them up for two years of contending.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Oct 2, 2014 13:40:11 GMT -5
They deserved to lose, they had the division in their sights and decided to play for the wild card without an ace. A lot of their success revolves around McCutchen, who is as good as gone after 2018. Martin their second most valuable player is gone this year, and they also have 2 FA starting pitchers in an expensive market. Cubs will be good next year after an active offseason, and the Reds and Brewers as not going to be easy beat up teams. I don't have to comment on the Cardinals do I? I get that they have to develop players, but their time to win was now and they didn't go for it. Hopefully it works out for them in the future. I would of been rooting for them if they made a move. As for Beane, I still think he made the right moves. The team collapsed, as Red Sox fans we should know it happens. The truth is no team can compete every year, and small market teams can't stay in competition as long as big market teams. I still would rather have the 3 year stretch we had than one with more wins and no title. Although the strategy we applied doesn't associate with what I was suggesting. Oh noes, their window is going to close in a mere half-decade. Again, I'm not saying that they made all right moves this year, but the core is good, locked down for quite a while, and probably hasn't collectively peaked yet. The division figures to be tough but that's not something that's easy to predict and certainly not something they can control. I'm just saying, they've been competitive for a few years, and they're going to continue to be competitive for the foreseeable future, and that's about a million times better than anything you could have said about that team in about the last two decades. I'm saying McCutchen's don't come around ofter. He is their chance, seeing they had a good chance this year it is upsetting they didn't attempt to upgrade their team. I wasn't involved in their trade discussions so I don't know what the circumstances were, but it is my thought that they should of been more aggressive. That is the reason why I was rooting against them instead of for them. They are the type of team I like to root for when the Red Sox are not in it. I really don't think they make the playoffs next year, unless they do start dealing the farm system.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 2, 2014 13:45:48 GMT -5
Considering the coin-flip nature of the playoffs, I generally think trying to open a long window of contention (like the one the Pirates might be setting up for themselves, with a solid major league roster, a good GM/manager, and a very good farm system) is preferable to a one-year "go-for-it" strategy. Sure, trading Taillon for Price would have made them really good this year, but they'd still be more likely than not to go home empty-handed, and now you've made competing in 2015 and beyond that much more difficult. You know Price is under contract for 2015, so that move would've basically set them up for two years of contending. Price should get something like $18-20m in arbitration this year (he got $14m last year), which is a lot for a team with a $70-80m payroll. Yeah, you can flip him for prospects during the offseason, but you're certainly going to get a much lesser package than you gave up.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Oct 2, 2014 13:49:34 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to suggest an all in this year. They didn't make a single move at the deadline, when the division was wide open. They could have easily upgraded a few spots while keeping their farm system and youth core intact. I felt that they were playing for a wildcard spot, and that is what they got.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 2, 2014 13:49:55 GMT -5
Considering the coin-flip nature of the playoffs, I generally think trying to open a long window of contention (like the one the Pirates might be setting up for themselves, with a solid major league roster, a good GM/manager, and a very good farm system) is preferable to a one-year "go-for-it" strategy. Sure, trading Taillon for Price would have made them really good this year, but they'd still be more likely than not to go home empty-handed, and now you've made competing in 2015 and beyond that much more difficult. Yeah. I do find it admirable to an extent, but on a purely rational basis "going for it" is usually the wrong move.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Oct 2, 2014 14:15:30 GMT -5
Considering the coin-flip nature of the playoffs, I generally think trying to open a long window of contention (like the one the Pirates might be setting up for themselves, with a solid major league roster, a good GM/manager, and a very good farm system) is preferable to a one-year "go-for-it" strategy. Sure, trading Taillon for Price would have made them really good this year, but they'd still be more likely than not to go home empty-handed, and now you've made competing in 2015 and beyond that much more difficult. Yeah. I do find it admirable to an extent, but on a purely rational basis "going for it" is usually the wrong move. Still wondering when these words in bold was suggested. I said they didn't make a move at the deadline. I never suggested an A's approach to this season for them. They could of done something without mortgaging their future, the same way we did when we traded for Peavy in 2013 instead of Lee. I guess it is being taken from me saying McCutchen is there till 2018, or "the time to win is now", but that really wasn't suppose to mean a "go for it" strategy and I'm a little dumbfounded on why it would be taken that way. I still think it was a mistake that they didn't add a single player and that their odds will be worst next year then it was this year, but as I said hopefully it will work out for them in the future. I don't want to root for the team because in my eyes they discounted their opportunity this year too much.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 2, 2014 18:07:34 GMT -5
It was that stuff, plus the presumption that you wanted them to make a major move rather than just shuffling the deck chairs around. You rarely lambast a team for not picking up a 6th inning reliever or a bench guy, so I just assumed you meant you wanted them to make a major short-term upgrade. I mean, even Peavy was arguably the best starter traded last year (depending on what you thought about Garza) and required a pretty hefty return.
We obviously don't know what was and wasn't on the table, but I can understand the Pirates passing on even mid-tier upgrades. I'm not sure an Andrew Miller or a Justin Masterson really improves their odds of winning the division that much, and as a small-market franchise with a perennially-low payroll, they really need to build their team from within to have any chance at sustained contention.
|
|
|
Post by kman22 on Oct 2, 2014 22:34:17 GMT -5
Pittsburgh had the prospects to bring in one of the frontline starters that moved this summer. Price, Lester, or Samardzija would be better options to start a season on the line game than Volquez, even though their offense fell flat yesterday as well. Unlike Oakland, the prospects wouldn't have been subtracted from thei current roster, trading future potential for a win-now opportunity. I'm not suggesting that they should have emptied the cupboards, but with Pittsburgh's farm system, making a move would have been a less costly risk. Oakland, on the other hand, had a shallow farm system and traded their biggest piece, as well as one of the top contributors in their starting lineup.
Two very different situations, Oakland could have stayed the course, Pittsburgh could have made a deal. Hindsight certainly helps, but at the time, I thought Pittsburgh made a mistake not making a move.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 2, 2014 22:40:04 GMT -5
Pittsburgh had the prospects to bring in one of the frontline starters that moved this summer. Price, Lester, or Samardzija would be better options to start a season on the line game than Volquez, even though their offense fell flat yesterday as well. Exactly. Suppose they'd dealt Bell for Lester. Lester almost certainly would've lost to Bumgarner (who was fantastic) and the Pirates would have been out both of them. Small market teams need to stick to the long-term rebuilding projects, because it's much more difficult for them to afford marginal upgrades in free agency. The Pirates are in good position to contend for the next three to five years. Their best chance of winning a World Series is by making the playoffs as many times as possible, not by trading prospects to go all in for one season.
|
|
|
Post by kman22 on Oct 2, 2014 22:46:05 GMT -5
Pittsburgh had the prospects to bring in one of the frontline starters that moved this summer. Price, Lester, or Samardzija would be better options to start a season on the line game than Volquez, even though their offense fell flat yesterday as well. Exactly. Suppose they'd dealt Bell for Lester. Lester almost certainly would've lost to Bumgarner (who was fantastic) and the Pirates would have been out both of them. Small market teams need to stick to the long-term rebuilding projects, because it's much more difficult for them to afford marginal upgrades in free agency. The Pirates are in good position to contend for the next three to five years. Their best chance of winning a World Series is by making the playoffs as many times as possible, not by trading prospects to go all in for one season. The thinking, for me at least, was the trade could help them win the division. No one game playoff. Better odds in a series where one poor performance doesn't end your season. I get what you're saying though, I just don't see where Bell (as an example) fits on that team in the next 3-5 years, to the point that Lester (or one of the three SP) would have been a poor investment.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 3, 2014 6:27:23 GMT -5
It seems to come down to sour grapes that Pittsburg didn't trade us our favorite prospects for Lackey or Lester.
|
|
|