SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2014 Playoffs Division Series gameday thread
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Oct 4, 2014 18:19:39 GMT -5
Haha didn't know where to put this but old friend Senquez Golson just had a huge INT against Alabama to beat them.
|
|
|
Post by adiospaydro2005 on Oct 4, 2014 20:21:57 GMT -5
Nats players losing control and letting them HP umpire get to him. Cabrera can not be that stupid to get tossed in a tie playoff game. Is that what they mean by Natitude?
|
|
|
Post by soxcentral on Oct 4, 2014 21:22:59 GMT -5
When this game started Jayson Werth had a crew cut.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 4, 2014 22:29:38 GMT -5
So I think Petit probably isn't going to be able to start game four.
|
|
danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
|
Post by danr on Oct 4, 2014 22:40:36 GMT -5
Hunter Strickland will be trying to save the game for the Giants. He now throws close to 100 MPH. The Sox traded him to the Pirates for Adam LaRoche.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 4, 2014 22:52:24 GMT -5
Hunter Strickland will be trying to save the game for the Giants. He now throws close to 100 MPH. The Sox traded him to the Pirates for Adam LaRoche. He wasn't even the main piece. Argenis Diaz was the headliner. Strickland was a 6'5" stringbean who threw 93 back then.
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Oct 4, 2014 23:26:45 GMT -5
If anything mangers matter more in a short series. So many of them don't understand the difference between managing for 162 and managing for 1. That's probably the reason the Rangers never won a WS under Washington. I also think that classifying two managers as "sabermetric" managers and all others as not sabermetric is, uhhh... flawed. Are Francona and Farrell "sabermetric" managers? I don't know. I do know that they're both guys who'll use their closer before the 9th in a playoff game. Is Ned Yost going to do that? Washington didn't do anything wrong that would cost the Rangers both WS, they didn't win because that Giants team had tremendous pitching and a bunch of random stuff happened against the Cards. Like I said, it's chaos. I used the term "SABR-oriented manager" meaning the kind of progressive thinking both the press and some fans seem to crave for their team. It should be by now pretty obvious what I mean. We both stated our points pretty clearly, so let's just disagree to agree on this one. On an unrelated note, congratulations Hunter Strickland. I'm already expecting Brock Huntzinger to close a WS game next year.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 4, 2014 23:44:26 GMT -5
If you define SABR manager as literally two guys, then you shouldn't be that surprised that neither of them has won a World Series. 29 managers, most of whom are pretty good at their jobs, go home empty every year. The fact that Melvin and Maddon have won as many regular-season games and playoff spots with the payrolls they have is worthy of praise, and the fact that they've not (yet) made it through the coin-flip gauntlet that is the playoffs shouldn't be held as a slight against them.
ADD: I do agree that managers in baseball don't affect outcomes that often, at least compared to the other major spots. But that doesn't mean we should pretend that in-game strategy doesn't matter at all. It does, but it's just hard to find the signal in the noise that is the playoffs. All else equal, you'd still absolutely prefer to have Bob Melvin (Wild Card game leaving-in of Lester too long aside) rather than Ned Yost.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 5, 2014 0:07:32 GMT -5
I used the term "SABR-oriented manager" meaning the kind of progressive thinking both the press and some fans seem to crave for their team. It should be by now pretty obvious what I mean. We both stated our points pretty clearly, so let's just disagree to agree on this one. Honestly I have no idea what you mean. What is it that makes Joe Maddon a "sabermetric" manager and Terry Francona not one? Specifically. (and, yes, Washington just completely butchered game six in 2011 while Tony La Russa won a ring with a weak rotation by managing his bullpen like a stratomatic junkie.)
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Oct 5, 2014 0:51:05 GMT -5
Honestly I have no idea what you mean. What is it that makes Joe Maddon a "sabermetric" manager and Terry Francona not one? Specifically. A funky haircut. Plus, it is about how a manager is perceived by media and fans, and I shouldn't try to explain that because yes it should be blatantly obvious. The best thing about this is you could try to argue this the best you could but you're never going anywhere, because as we type this Ned Yost has his team 1 win away from the ALCS.
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Oct 5, 2014 0:57:49 GMT -5
ADD: I do agree that managers in baseball don't affect outcomes that often, at least compared to the other major spots. But that doesn't mean we should pretend that in-game strategy doesn't matter at all. It does, but it's just hard to find the signal in the noise that is the playoffs. All else equal, you'd still absolutely prefer to have Bob Melvin (Wild Card game leaving-in of Lester too long aside) rather than Ned Yost. Forget SABR-oriented manager, it was not an exactly appropriate term. My point is that "all else equal" is not something that applies to baseball, because we have no friggin idea on what that is. You're not going to win it as much by X and O like other sports, and there are a 162 games every season. These guys see each other more than they see themselves in the mirror. It is about dealing with adversity and handling personalities more than anything, which is unlike other sports. I'm not advocating imbecility as a way of managing a team, but I think we should cut these guys some slack and try to see the whole piece instead of I CAN'T BELIEVE HE BROUGHT THIS GUY IN THE 8TH OMFG. The lengths a guy has to go to defend Ned Yost, Jesus Christ.
|
|
|
Post by GyIantosca on Oct 5, 2014 8:02:46 GMT -5
Haha didn't know where to put this but old friend Senquez Golson just had a huge INT against Alabama to beat them. Pedro, you know what's funny the Pats could use him and Shaq too. They have Shaq as a linebacker this year.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 5, 2014 10:32:27 GMT -5
Honestly I have no idea what you mean. What is it that makes Joe Maddon a "sabermetric" manager and Terry Francona not one? Specifically. A funky haircut. Plus, it is about how a manager is perceived by media and fans, and I shouldn't try to explain that because yes it should be blatantly obvious. The best thing about this is you could try to argue this the best you could but you're never going anywhere, because as we type this Ned Yost has his team 1 win away from the ALCS.So what does that prove? That Yost is a good manager, or that managers don't matter? Or does it prove nothing because, you know, five game series.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 5, 2014 10:37:12 GMT -5
ADD: I do agree that managers in baseball don't affect outcomes that often, at least compared to the other major spots. But that doesn't mean we should pretend that in-game strategy doesn't matter at all. It does, but it's just hard to find the signal in the noise that is the playoffs. All else equal, you'd still absolutely prefer to have Bob Melvin (Wild Card game leaving-in of Lester too long aside) rather than Ned Yost. Forget SABR-oriented manager, it was not an exactly appropriate term. My point is that "all else equal" is not something that applies to baseball, because we have no friggin idea on what that is. You're not going to win it as much by X and O like other sports, and there are a 162 games every season. These guys see each other more than they see themselves in the mirror. It is about dealing with adversity and handling personalities more than anything, which is unlike other sports. I'm not advocating imbecility as a way of managing a team, but I think we should cut these guys some slack and try to see the whole piece instead of I CAN'T BELIEVE HE BROUGHT THIS GUY IN THE 8TH OMFG. The lengths a guy has to go to defend Ned Yost, Jesus Christ. Ok, so you brought up the term "sabermetic manger" but now you're running away from it, you're saying these managers don't win anything, but you're also saying managers don't matter. You talking about the perceptions of manages in the media and I have no idea why that's relevant to anything we're talking about, you can't give me a straight answer as to what the real and specific differences between these managers are... and now it's "I can't believe the lengths I have to go to defend Ned Yost". Well yeah you do because I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Is getting your own thoughts on the matter organized before you bring it up for conversation that much to ask?
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 5, 2014 11:02:17 GMT -5
I think the overall thesis is just "managers don't matter that much in baseball." I don't really disagree with that.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 5, 2014 11:44:58 GMT -5
I think the overall thesis is just "managers don't matter that much in baseball." I don't really disagree with that. I think they matter more than many other things we deem worthy of discussion as fans. And I think they can definitely make a significant difference in the postseason, for a couple reasons. For one, because of the increased importance of each game. Additionally, the difference between the best and worse managers increases. IE, Ned Yost goes to Ventura in the sixth because he can't use his seventh inning guy until the seventh. Pretty much every manager works their bullpen like that during the regular season. But in the playoffs, a guy like Buck Showalter brings Andrew Miller in for the sixth and rides him for multiple innings after never doing either of those things during the season. Farrell did the same kinds of things last year. Ron Washington failed to do those kinds of things in 2011 and may well have cost the Rangers a championship. Is it the most important thing? No. Is it hard to measure the precise impact of these decisions? Absolutely. But I think there's a certain level of willful ignorance when you look at some of the decisions being made in these games and just going "eh, whatever, managers don't really matter".
|
|
|
Post by redsox4242 on Oct 5, 2014 12:57:59 GMT -5
I hope Baltimore finishes the job today, I can't stand the Tigers and Cabrera. The way he showed up the Baltimore fans is a disgrace. Screw him.
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 5, 2014 13:31:30 GMT -5
I hope Baltimore finishes the job today, I can't stand the Tigers and Cabrera. The way he showed up the Baltimore fans is a disgrace. Screw him. To be fair, they were heckling him. I'd like to see the Tigers advance... I don't think Baltimore's rotation is really World Series caliber and I'd rather not see the Cards or Dodgers take the World Series.
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Oct 5, 2014 13:31:39 GMT -5
So what does that prove? That Yost is a good manager, or that managers don't matter? Or does it prove nothing because, you know, five game series. I don't know, you tell me. I've filled the past 2 pages with my idea that managers don't matter that much, so you tell me what I'm trying to prove. Ok, so you brought up the term "sabermetic manger" but now you're running away from it, you're saying these managers don't win anything, but you're also saying managers don't matter. You talking about the perceptions of manages in the media and I have no idea why that's relevant to anything we're talking about, you can't give me a straight answer as to what the real and specific differences between these managers are... and now it's "I can't believe the lengths I have to go to defend Ned Yost". Well yeah you do because I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Is getting your own thoughts on the matter organized before you bring it up for conversation that much to ask? You're really starting to get annoying here. I never used the term "sabermetric manager". My point is that the little decisions a manager often gets criticized for making or not making don't matter as much as guys like to freak out over it, and that the stuff we don't know about (call it the intangibles just for the heck of it) is what matters. I'm sorry if I'm not making that clear. It's really hard to "organize my own thoughts" when you're obnoxiously strawmanning everything I say. I don't care if you disagree with me, just stop trying to disprove my point because you're pretending to not understand it. But in the playoffs, a guy like Buck Showalter brings Andrew Miller in for the sixth and rides him for multiple innings after never doing either of those things during the season. Farrell did the same kinds of things last year. Ron Washington failed to do those kinds of things in 2011 and may well have cost the Rangers a championship. Is it the most important thing? No. Is it hard to measure the precise impact of these decisions? Absolutely. But I think there's a certain level of willful ignorance when you look at some of the decisions being made in these games and just going "eh, whatever, managers don't really matter". You know why it's "hard to measure the precise impact of these decisions"? Because if it fails, people will smash him for using Miller too long and not focusing on getting the proper match up. Like I said before, I'm not defending ignorance, I'm defending the stuff that happens that we don't know about because baseball isn't about X and O like the other 3 major sports in the US. Also, you know what Ron Washington and Buck Showalter have in common? They haven't won a WS. Jack McKeon has one and he was half-asleep for all his team's games. I think the overall thesis is just "managers don't matter that much in baseball." I don't really disagree with that. Thank you. I think managers work better as motivators than as strategists.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 5, 2014 19:54:43 GMT -5
Managers don't matter much in baseball (at least strategy-wise) because every manager manages the same way. It's the Mariano conundrum. Joe Torre's use of Rivera didn't necessarily make him a good manager. But every single other manager who he faced used his bullpen as if he had Mariano Rivera against a team that actually had Mariano Rivera. That gave Torre the advantage.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 5, 2014 20:56:39 GMT -5
Managers don't matter much in baseball (at least strategy-wise) because every manager manages the same way. It's the Mariano conundrum. Joe Torre's use of Rivera didn't necessarily make him a good manager. But every single other manager who he faced used his bullpen as if he had Mariano Rivera against a team that actually had Mariano Rivera. That gave Torre the advantage. And again this shows up in the postseason. Everyone uses their closer for three outs during the regular season. SOME guys start using their closers for four or five or six outs in the postseason, which gives their teams a real advantage. The Red Sox won three World Series doing that. Exclusively because of that? Obviously not, but can anyone honestly say it wouldn't have made any difference if Francona/Farrell had just stuck to using Foulke/Papelbon/Uehara for one inning only?
|
|
|
Post by GyIantosca on Oct 5, 2014 21:22:54 GMT -5
You got to love the Royals. I understand Shields is gonna get paid but this playoffs will determine how much More.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 5, 2014 22:23:42 GMT -5
It looks like the World Series will have at least one small market team. I'm happy for the fans of Baltimore and Kansas City. If the Sox aren't there I'd want it to be teams that haven't been there for a while. I'm rooting for the Nationals in the NL now second choice anybody but the Dodgers (love it when teams that consistently exceed the salary cap fail).
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 5, 2014 22:33:17 GMT -5
In three games the Royals hit four home runs and sacrifice bunted once, so I'm excited for several days of "analysis" telling me that small ball is back and that Moneyball is stupid.
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Oct 5, 2014 22:45:41 GMT -5
Ain't it a beautiful game? The Royals are the Rockies of 07', hot when they need to be. The Orioles advance sans two of their key players and the suspension of their best player from the previous year. Poor Detroit, wasting Victor's best year, showing squat for the best late season addition in all of baseball. Then their are the Halos.... gotta' believe Soscia is history. Not to worry Mike Trout, there will be other years. Pujols, Hamilton, I am so reminded of AROD and Texiera.
Onward. Reverse the curse Nats. Coin toss Cards/Dodgers. Who'da thunk the two 20 game winners would account for the highest scoring game in the playoffs? Something for everyone.
|
|
|