wcp3
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Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 14, 2015 18:00:10 GMT -5
Because they would resign Dragic.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Feb 14, 2015 20:28:23 GMT -5
I meant more in terms of age to contender status ratio.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 15, 2015 12:22:26 GMT -5
Goran Dragic is a better player than Brandon Bass by very VERY much.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 19, 2015 16:49:53 GMT -5
I like Thomas! That salary is a bargain and he's a very good scorer, although not much of anything else. However, that backcourt just got massively undersized.
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Post by jmei on Feb 19, 2015 18:24:25 GMT -5
Liked the moves, even if that Cavs pick might turn out to be better than initially expected. Smart is sturdy enough to defend the 2 and Bradley generally is as well, so I'm less concerned about size (that's not to mention Young and Crowder and Turner). Datome is an interesting guy as well-- has not played much and was bad when he did, but coming out of Europe he had the reputation of a good shooter. Probably nothing, but a guy Ainge had previously been rumored to be interested in, and the SF depth chart is thin.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 19, 2015 18:51:57 GMT -5
Love the deal especially when you trace it back.
Danny turned a trade exception (and a 2nd? ) into Zeller and Thomas. Nice work.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Feb 19, 2015 19:42:10 GMT -5
I like the move. Thomas is a good player on a very reasonable contract who is young enough (turned 26 on Feb. 7) to either be a part of the future or increase his value and be flipped for something better. Smart and Bradley are still the starting backcourt, no? Thomas ideally is a 6th man, though I wouldn't be surprised if all three are on the court at the same time, when Stevens wants to go small. BTW, the Nets trade so far:
Nets Recieve:
1 year of Pierce
1 1/2 years of KG
1/2 year + of Thaddeus Young (player option for 15-16)
1 year of Terry/Thornton
6 days of DJ White
Celtics Recieve:
Tyler Zeller
James Young
Isaiah Thomas
2015 Washington 2nd
2016 Nets 1st
2017 Right to swap
2018 Nets 1st
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 19, 2015 23:27:52 GMT -5
Danny absolutely hosed the Nets and Clippers the past couple years. Masterful.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 20, 2015 7:26:25 GMT -5
Sully could be out for a stretch with a foot injury. I'm thinking Brandon Bass won't be bought out.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 20, 2015 11:56:15 GMT -5
Good move yesterday to snag Thomas and continue that great Love facilitation trade. A second for Zeller and Thomas is great. Thomas has a great contract, better than Bradley and he's more valuable. It might free Bradley up in a trade later or he's a valuable trade asset as well if not a big part of the team in a couple years.
I hope they miss the playoffs, in assuming they aren't trying too much for it considering they helped out Detroit so perhaps they will buy out Bass still. For his sake and ours I hope so.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 20, 2015 16:06:46 GMT -5
Having our best big man out for a stretch will help the "lottery effort".
BTW, related to the idea of playing for the best draft position (but not related to the C's) I find it somewhat brilliant what Philly is doing. I'd ask that you remove the ethical argument of tanking out of the discussion for a minute (if you believe there is one in the first place).
The Sixers are a Nerlens Noel trade away from eliminating the only other argument against tanking (the idea that you're instilling a losing mentality amongst the players). The next Philly team that has a shot at being contenders will likely be lead by players that haven't been a part of this tank job.
Right now, the future core will be Embiid, Saric, their own 1st this year (likely in the Top 5), 2 more picks (from Miami and OKC) that are likely just out of the lottery and another 1st rounder that could either be top 6-7 this year or potentially even better next year (LA's pick is Top 5 protected this year and Top 3 next). Add that to their own next year as well.
That would be 7 potential starter/rotation players (especially if the Miami/OKC picks are just out of the lottery) that would be rookies next year. While that would be an awfully young team and, therefore, far away from a contender, they wouldn't be "poisoned" by the tank year(s).
Random observation, I know but . . .
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 20, 2015 17:27:47 GMT -5
I like the Thomas trade. Good player on a good contract and most likely will give us a lot more value then the Cleveland pick would have every given us. But He makes us a lot better then we were. He might be the best scorer on the team the minute he steps on the floor. I like the fit, with Smart and Bradley being above average defenders. This was my fear Danny made the team better at the deadline. Thomas is a major upgrade over Thorton. Sure we got rid of Prince but added two veterans that off set getting rid of one veteran player. We also didn't get rid of Bass. This team would have been in trouble if Bass was traded with Sullinger now out. That would have been great. Now instead bass will be getting 30 minutes a night and will make more then a few contenders regret not trading for him.
Very upset as my worst fears have come true. Danny has turned the corner and has already started to make the Celtics better. Next up signing a free agent next year that 90% of the posters on this board will hate. Also expect a trade in the off season that trades in a good amount of our future assets to help the current roster.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 20, 2015 17:38:03 GMT -5
As to the Sixers plan I wouldn't think they are brilliant just yet. They are three years into a rebuild and have nothing but Noels to show for it on the court and he hasn't even been that impressive. What they are doing has never been done before, either they will look brilliant in 3-5 years or they are on course for a 10 year rebuild. My take is that they are crazy and its going to be a 10 year rebuild. You do need some good Vet players for your young players to learn from and the Sixers have almost none of these type players. Also their plan requires them to hit on all these picks and history shows they won't. I really liked Carter Williams as a passing guard that can play good D. Sure he needs work on offence, but with time I think that comes along in a few years.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 21, 2015 10:37:42 GMT -5
Again, it was "brilliant" within the context of tanking efforts. Not that it will work or that it won't take a long time. More that it's a different approach to the tanking effort that removes some of the perceived pitfalls of such a plan.
I'd also add that sometimes, you just have to think of different ways to achieve your goals. You can't just assume that teams will trade away their current or future stars or that free agents are going to flock to your city.
When most championship teams have been led by (or at least included) a star that was drafted by the team, it's hard to argue about a plan that increases your chances of getting that player. And, as with Boston, they'll have so many picks and young players that they can determine the keepers and package the others.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 21, 2015 15:13:26 GMT -5
Umass, your fears haven't come true. Danny just upgraded assets, Thornton was gone for nothing if not traded and Thomas is a huge upgrade over a late 20s pick. It's an asset upgrade nothing more. Perhaps he's here long term but it doesn't tell us what you've stated.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 22, 2015 10:43:54 GMT -5
Sully is out for the rest of the season.
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Post by jmei on Feb 22, 2015 11:25:38 GMT -5
That'll make the team a good bit worse. Sullinger was always a plus/minus monster.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 22, 2015 15:45:49 GMT -5
Umass, your fears haven't come true. Danny just upgraded assets, Thornton was gone for nothing if not traded and Thomas is a huge upgrade over a late 20s pick. It's an asset upgrade nothing more. Perhaps he's here long term but it doesn't tell us what you've stated. This is not a simple asset upgrade. Sure chances are Thomas will out perform the player picked with the Cleveland pick. But Thomas represents a major upgrade in talent to the current roster. Danny is on record saying he has wanted Thomas for years. So I don't think he acquired Thomas thinking he will flip him in the near future. Look at the teams that are in rebuilding stages, we are the only team that got better at the deadline! While teams like the Jazz and Sixers were dumping players and lowering their teams overall talent, we were adding talent.
We also didn't trade Bass and Danny is on record saying he might resign Bass in the offseason. Does that sound like a GM that is planning on building through the draft? No, that sounds like a GM that understands that this team is too good to get a top 5 pick without gutting it of good young players like Sullinger, Zeller, Smart, Olynyk, Bradley and now Thomas. Danny understand that he has a great coach that won't stick around for a 5 year rebuild, so he is changing course and will now try and compete next year.
Everyone kept saying wait till the deadline, we will get rid of our Vets and we will start losing games. I kept saying I don't think so, I think Danny will keep Vets and might even improve the team at the deadline which is just what he did. Just remember when Danny signs a non franchise player to a huge contract this summer that you heard it hear first!
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Post by jmei on Feb 22, 2015 16:10:54 GMT -5
I mean, Ainge also traded Tayshaun Prince for two inferior players to save a little cash and open up playing time for James Young. There's no chance he trades the best SF on the roster for basically nothing in return if he's focused on winning as soon as possible. I think he didn't trade Bass because noone ever made a legit play for him-- I don't think I remember reading one team even rumored to be interested in him, and his $6.9m salary would have been hard for any team to match without sending back longer-term salary, which Boston wouldn't be willing to take. Coach Stevens is under contract for four more years, so that certainly isn't a factor the front office is taking into account.
Ainge is an opportunistic guy who will take whatever is out there rather than dogmatically committing to one path or another, so you can't rule anything out. But I would be very surprised if he pulls a 2009 Pistons and blows his hard-earned cap space on mid-tier guys like DeAndre Jordan.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Feb 22, 2015 17:39:31 GMT -5
Umass, your fears haven't come true. Danny just upgraded assets, Thornton was gone for nothing if not traded and Thomas is a huge upgrade over a late 20s pick. It's an asset upgrade nothing more. Perhaps he's here long term but it doesn't tell us what you've stated. This is not a simple asset upgrade. Sure chances are Thomas will out perform the player picked with the Cleveland pick. But Thomas represents a major upgrade in talent to the current roster. Danny is on record saying he has wanted Thomas for years. So I don't think he acquired Thomas thinking he will flip him in the near future. Look at the teams that are in rebuilding stages, we are the only team that got better at the deadline! While teams like the Jazz and Sixers were dumping players and lowering their teams overall talent, we were adding talent.
We also didn't trade Bass and Danny is on record saying he might resign Bass in the offseason. Does that sound like a GM that is planning on building through the draft? No, that sounds like a GM that understands that this team is too good to get a top 5 pick without gutting it of good young players like Sullinger, Zeller, Smart, Olynyk, Bradley and now Thomas. Danny understand that he has a great coach that won't stick around for a 5 year rebuild, so he is changing course and will now try and compete next year.
Everyone kept saying wait till the deadline, we will get rid of our Vets and we will start losing games. I kept saying I don't think so, I think Danny will keep Vets and might even improve the team at the deadline which is just what he did. Just remember when Danny signs a non franchise player to a huge contract this summer that you heard it hear first!
Yes the Jazz sold off pieces, but they may have an addition-by-subtraction situation. Kanter didn't want to be there, he's a liability on defense, and he was taking away minutes/a starting spot from Gobert. Novak has scored 48 points on the season, so no real loss there. It's not like they dumped Hayward or Favors. The Jazz haven't made themselves a ton worse, granted they do have less talent. We weren't close to the Sixers in the draft standings, so it doesn't really affect us. Thornton going is a small subtraction. At the end of last year, we were hearing the same "we might bring him back" stuff about Kris Humpheries, so I don't put too much stock in Bass returning. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 22, 2015 19:00:44 GMT -5
Criticizing the Thomas trade=manufacturing things to complain about.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 23, 2015 9:39:20 GMT -5
Danny also has the Brooklyn plucks starting next year for three straight years so there's no reason to completely tank. They key is player development and not wasting cap room with bad contracts.
Part of me thinks they should talk to PP in the offseason about coming back as a mentor. Everyone is ripping Minny for the KG trade and I think it's shrewed and shouldn't be tied into the previous trade of Young. That was a sunken cost and they picked up the premier team defender and hard worker to set an example for the young guys. Doing something similar with PP here might be a good thing. I only say might because you have to talk to PP and make sure he's on board and ok with low minutes so our young wings can get their minutes.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 23, 2015 10:16:32 GMT -5
Sacramento got George Karl; Detroit got Bobby Jackson and Indiana might get Paul George back. Not the only lottery team who might get better.
Also, Danny being "on the record" about re-signing Bass . . . regardless of what happens next do you honestly think he'd say something different? You're trying to get the most value for him and telling teams that he won't be available via buyout plays into that.
Not saying that a buyout is coming but believing what a GM says in the days/weeks leading up to a trade deadline is a fairly silly thing to do. After all, with about an hour left in the deadline, the C's weren't going to make any trades.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 23, 2015 13:09:33 GMT -5
Reggie Jackson  But I agree other almost playoff teams got better too... The Celtics won't make the playoffs; Sully is a huge loss... As long as the Celtics finish with a top 10 pick I will be happy. There are a bunch of guys I like projected in that area: Oubre, Winslow, Towns, Stein, the two foreign guys... anyone but Kaminsky... please stay away from him Danny.. Don't need a slightly better version of Olynic |
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Post by texs31 on Feb 23, 2015 13:17:50 GMT -5
Ha! How'd that sneak in to my brain.
I think #6 headed into the lottery is acheivable. MIN/NY/PHI/LAL/ORL are lost causes. Utah could be tough to pass too but still within striking distance.
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