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Post by telson13 on Jun 16, 2016 22:12:33 GMT -5
Moncada certainly has the arm for third. Seems better suited for OF to use those wheels, but anywhere except 1b and C is fine by me. 3b would certainly have value similar to 2b, where he's not displacing Pedroia any time soon. Have there been any double-plus run third basemen recently? Has there ever? But should that stop them if that were their only spot for him and he was entirely capable? ARod moved to 3b when he was still a plus runner, but certainly he was never an 80 steal threat. Still, it seems silly to me that a team wouldn't play a player at 3b who had the arm for it, the range for it, and the hands for it, simply because he didn't "fit the prototype." If the OF is full, and 2b and SS taken, the team's limited in where they put him. His feet aren't going to suddenly transmute into lead by standing at the hot corner, any more than putting Dick Stuart in CF would've grown wings on his feet and turned him into Mercury. The only positions I'd legitimately see as affecting a player's legs are C, and over the long term, maybe 2b (where players historically have early declines, probably from minor injuries, contact, etc.). If he hits and fields and runs, more value for them. Edit: good calls on Chone Figgins. Certainly can't think of anyone, ever, who was a legit 50-steal guy, let alone 70-80. |
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Post by borisman on Jun 17, 2016 6:02:04 GMT -5
Have there been any double-plus run third basemen recently? Has there ever? But should that stop them if that were their only spot for him and he was entirely capable? ARod moved to 3b when he was still a plus runner, but certainly he was never an 80 steal threat. Still, it seems silly to me that a team wouldn't play a player at 3b who had the arm for it, the range for it, and the hands for it, simply because he didn't "fit the prototype." If the OF is full, and 2b and SS taken, the team's limited in where they put him. His feet aren't going to suddenly transmute into lead by standing at the hot corner, any more than putting Dick Stuart in CF would've grown wings on his feet and turned him into Mercury. The only positions I'd legitimately see as affecting a player's legs are C, and over the long term, maybe 2b (where players historically have early declines, probably from minor injuries, contact, etc.). If he hits and fields and runs, more value for them. Edit: good calls on Chone Figgins. Certainly can't think of anyone, ever, who was a legit 50-steal guy, let alone 70-80. I think Paul Molitor played a lot of 3B, before becoming a full time DH, and he was a great base runner. I looked up his stats and he was in the 40's 4 x's and 30's several more. |
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Post by telson13 on Jun 17, 2016 19:00:46 GMT -5
Has there ever? But should that stop them if that were their only spot for him and he was entirely capable? ARod moved to 3b when he was still a plus runner, but certainly he was never an 80 steal threat. Still, it seems silly to me that a team wouldn't play a player at 3b who had the arm for it, the range for it, and the hands for it, simply because he didn't "fit the prototype." If the OF is full, and 2b and SS taken, the team's limited in where they put him. His feet aren't going to suddenly transmute into lead by standing at the hot corner, any more than putting Dick Stuart in CF would've grown wings on his feet and turned him into Mercury. The only positions I'd legitimately see as affecting a player's legs are C, and over the long term, maybe 2b (where players historically have early declines, probably from minor injuries, contact, etc.). If he hits and fields and runs, more value for them. Edit: good calls on Chone Figgins. Certainly can't think of anyone, ever, who was a legit 50-steal guy, let alone 70-80. I think Paul Molitor played a lot of 3B, before becoming a full time DH, and he was a great base runner. I looked up his stats and he was in the 40's 4 x's and 30's several more. Good call, though he was more savvy than pure speed. There's certainly precedent for a good baserunner at third, but I can't think of anyone who equates to, say, Tim Raines or Jacoby Ellsbury as a SB threat. I do like that it would utilize his 65 arm, though, as opposed to 2b. If he's the hitter Molitor was, the Sox will be in pretty damn good shape. |
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Post by brendandonnelly on Jun 17, 2016 19:20:36 GMT -5
I think Paul Molitor played a lot of 3B, before becoming a full time DH, and he was a great base runner. I looked up his stats and he was in the 40's 4 x's and 30's several more. Good call, though he was more savvy than pure speed. There's certainly precedent for a good baserunner at third, but I can't think of anyone who equates to, say, Tim Raines or Jacoby Ellsbury as a SB threat. I do like that it would utilize his 65 arm, though, as opposed to 2b. If he's the hitter Molitor was, the Sox will be in pretty damn good shape. Indeed they will be in great shape, and they'd likely be getting more value from Moncada at 3B than at a more prototypical SB position (barring CF, but given lack of exp it's likely a toss up at best given current OF). Also, I think the team would like to avoid benching/platooning the de facto captain and the accompanying media circus in order to placate a top prospect if YM is ready before the end of next season. I'm not implying that Moncada would be selfish to want to stick at 2B given that's what he's played the most professionally, BUT I hope/think (based on some translated comments) if he were approached about moving positions that YM would be very open to it, especially since it will likely be his fastest path to the MLB (at least with BOS). |
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Post by tonyc on Jun 18, 2016 0:57:05 GMT -5
Brendan which artist painted your avatar? I like good abstract expressionism.
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Post by bluechip on Jun 18, 2016 13:31:57 GMT -5
Have there been any double-plus run third basemen recently? Has there ever? But should that stop them if that were their only spot for him and he was entirely capable? ARod moved to 3b when he was still a plus runner, but certainly he was never an 80 steal threat. Still, it seems silly to me that a team wouldn't play a player at 3b who had the arm for it, the range for it, and the hands for it, simply because he didn't "fit the prototype." If the OF is full, and 2b and SS taken, the team's limited in where they put him. His feet aren't going to suddenly transmute into lead by standing at the hot corner, any more than putting Dick Stuart in CF would've grown wings on his feet and turned him into Mercury. The only positions I'd legitimately see as affecting a player's legs are C, and over the long term, maybe 2b (where players historically have early declines, probably from minor injuries, contact, etc.). If he hits and fields and runs, more value for them. Edit: good calls on Chone Figgins. Certainly can't think of anyone, ever, who was a legit 50-steal guy, let alone 70-80. In the dead ball era third base was often seen as a glove first position. During that time period there were certainly speedy guys who played the position. John McGraw stole a ton of bases (to go along with his impressive batting average and OPB) while playing third. I'm sure there are more recent players as well. |
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 18, 2016 14:32:23 GMT -5
Has there ever? But should that stop them if that were their only spot for him and he was entirely capable? ARod moved to 3b when he was still a plus runner, but certainly he was never an 80 steal threat. Still, it seems silly to me that a team wouldn't play a player at 3b who had the arm for it, the range for it, and the hands for it, simply because he didn't "fit the prototype." If the OF is full, and 2b and SS taken, the team's limited in where they put him. His feet aren't going to suddenly transmute into lead by standing at the hot corner, any more than putting Dick Stuart in CF would've grown wings on his feet and turned him into Mercury. The only positions I'd legitimately see as affecting a player's legs are C, and over the long term, maybe 2b (where players historically have early declines, probably from minor injuries, contact, etc.). If he hits and fields and runs, more value for them. Edit: good calls on Chone Figgins. Certainly can't think of anyone, ever, who was a legit 50-steal guy, let alone 70-80. In the dead ball era third base was often seen as a glove first position. During that time period there were certainly speedy guys who played the position. John McGraw stole a ton of bases (to go along with his impressive batting average and OPB) while playing third. I'm sure there are more recent players as well. Fritz Meisel, 1914, 74 steals, all playing 3b. In the 19th cent McGraw had 73 while playing only 3rd, 78 in a season he played a few games at 2b. Doesn't seem to be anyone recent with 70+ |
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 19, 2016 20:15:04 GMT -5
promoted to Portland per Speier
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 19, 2016 20:24:37 GMT -5
promoted to Portland per Speier Article “@alexspeier: It’s official (via @salemredsox): Yoan Moncada promoted to Double A Portland. Presumably, debut on Tues at Hadlock t.co/HS3HufRIPY |
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Post by Canseco on Jun 20, 2016 8:17:44 GMT -5
At what point does the organization move Moncada off 2B and to 3B or the OF? Now that he's in the upper minors, things could start moving rather quickly.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 20, 2016 8:26:35 GMT -5
At what point does the organization move Moncada off 2B and to 3B or the OF? Now that he's in the upper minors, things could start moving rather quickly. I'd be willing to bet it's sometime post 2016. He just got to AA, and the Sox usually make those adjustments in AAA/MLB. |
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Post by gerry on Jun 20, 2016 10:30:59 GMT -5
With YM at 3B and Beni in LF, this will be a crazy fast team (good to plus speed from Hanley, Pedey, YM, XB, Beni, JBJ, Mookie plus Brockstar, Swihart) which, with their OBP and power (add Shaw, Travis) will be at least as fun to watch while maintaining a top offense even without the large father. Getting my head around a really fast Red Sox team has been difficult, but combining that with its more traditional XBH power has rendered the concept beyond comfortable. Young fans will never see the Sox as a station-to-station team, a complete paradigm shift. And its about time.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jun 20, 2016 12:17:43 GMT -5
Moncada's June in Salem was pretty insane. .345 BA, .438 OBP, 53% FB+LD, .273 ISO, 14% BB%, 16% K%
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 20, 2016 12:26:45 GMT -5
Moncada's June in Salem was pretty insane. .345 BA, .438 OBP, 53% FB+LD, .273 ISO, 14% BB%, 16% K% Do you know how his exit velocities have been? |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 20, 2016 12:42:45 GMT -5
Moncada's June in Salem was pretty insane. .345 BA, .438 OBP, 53% FB+LD, .273 ISO, 14% BB%, 16% K% There goes the k-rate concern. |
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 20, 2016 12:45:50 GMT -5
At what point does the organization move Moncada off 2B and to 3B or the OF? Now that he's in the upper minors, things could start moving rather quickly. I'd be willing to bet it's sometime post 2016. He just got to AA, and the Sox usually make those adjustments in AAA/MLB. My guess would be a move to 3B either winter ball this year, or next spring. Of course, the incumbent 3B looks like a 4.0 WAR player right now (4.4 aWAR pace, and his slump just ended). But the offensive gap between 1B and 3B is at a historic low right now, and he'd lose very little practical value moving across the diamond. The last guy we moved the "wrong way" on the defensive spectrum proved to be such a good defender in his new spot that he lost little or no value. Let's see, Mookie's been a +14 defender in RF and lost 11 runs of value by moving from 2B. He was actually a little below average in his 122 innings there his rookie year; I think if he'd stayed at the position he might have been a +5 guy ... 2 runs is not anything to worry about. |
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 20, 2016 12:59:49 GMT -5
I'd be willing to bet it's sometime post 2016. He just got to AA, and the Sox usually make those adjustments in AAA/MLB. My guess would be a move to 3B either winter ball this year, or next spring. Of course, the incumbent 3B looks like a 4.0 WAR player right now (4.4 aWAR pace, and his slump just ended). But the offensive gap between 1B and 3B is at a historic low right now, and he'd lose very little practical value moving across the diamond. The last guy we moved the "wrong way" on the defensive spectrum proved to be such a good defender in his new spot that he lost little or no value. Let's see, Mookie's been a +14 defender in RF and lost 11 runs of value by moving from 2B. He was actually a little below average in his 122 innings there his rookie year; I think if he'd stayed at the position he might have been a +5 guy ... 2 runs is not anything to worry about. Youkilis made a nice move to 1b too. Before the ill-advised move back to 3b. And, consequences of letting Beltre walk. |
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 20, 2016 18:01:22 GMT -5
At what point does the organization move Moncada off 2B and to 3B or the OF? Now that he's in the upper minors, things could start moving rather quickly. I'd be willing to bet it's sometime post 2016. He just got to AA, and the Sox usually make those adjustments in AAA/MLB. They started playing Mookie in the outfield after about 30-40 games at AA. Depends on how long Moncada is in Portland, but I believe he'll start the transition there. |
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Post by telson13 on Jun 20, 2016 18:51:02 GMT -5
Grossly unfair to "expect" him to be the second coming, or make much more than a passing comparison, but does Moncada's offensive style remind anyone else of this guy?: www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/henderi01-bat.shtml?mobile=falseRidiculous OBPs, with IsoD consistently over .100. Extra base power but not really a HR hitter. Great but not unheard-of speed, but coupled with aggressiveness on the basepaths, and a seemingly intrinsic knowledge of how and when to steal (which Herb Washington, who had what amounts to 90 speed, proved is the most important aspect of good base stealing). Obviously, predicting 130 SB is ridiculously unfair. But 80 or even 100, with 120+ RS (or more, with this offense) and a .280/.400/.450 line is starting to look, well, almost reasonable. |
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 20, 2016 22:55:46 GMT -5
I think Moncada ends up a 25+ home run/.200+ Iso guy. Salem is a really tough place to hit homers, and he was leading the circuit in doubles. And he's freakishly strong. And I'll see what happens with the steals as he climbs the ladder - I think he ends up a 20-30 steal guy (which is awesome!) rather than a 50-steal type. Part of his ridiculous total is just having the combination of good speed and baseball IQ to run at will on the pitchers who can't hold runners and catchers who can't throw in Single A baseball.
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Post by cologneredsox on Jun 21, 2016 5:29:20 GMT -5
Moncada's June in Salem was pretty insane. .345 BA, .438 OBP, 53% FB+LD, .273 ISO, 14% BB%, 16% K% Do you know how his exit velocities have been? I'd be interested in the vs. L/vs. R splits as well. |
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Post by nomar on Jun 21, 2016 6:11:33 GMT -5
Do you know how his exit velocities have been? I'd be interested in the vs. L/vs. R splits as well. .971 OPS vs RHP .797 vs LHP |
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Post by cologneredsox on Jun 21, 2016 7:31:51 GMT -5
I'd be interested in the vs. L/vs. R splits as well. .971 OPS vs RHP .797 vs LHP If I remember it right, that's progress he made in that regard, isn't it? |
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 21, 2016 7:48:26 GMT -5
.971 OPS vs RHP .797 vs LHP If I remember it right, that's progress he made in that regard, isn't it? Indeed. While that looks like a big gap, a .797 OPS from the weak side is quite good without even considering context (tough hitters' park, young for his league, etc). Mauricio Dubon, Sam Travis, and Nick Longhi all have a lower overall OPS than Moncada does from his weak side. But wait, there's more! OPS is often misleading when a player's value is coming from OBP. Moncada's slash is .286/.416/.381 against lefties. Basically he hasn't shown any power against them yet, but is maintaining his approach, making consistent contact, and working deep counts. A .416 OBP on the weak side is pants-wetting territory. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 21, 2016 8:50:00 GMT -5
Over/under on the move to 3B ?
I'll go with 25 days.
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