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nomar
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Posts: 11,607
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Post by nomar on Jun 21, 2016 8:52:18 GMT -5
Over/under on the move to 3B ? I'll go with 25 days. I'll take the over. I don't see him being aggressively pushed, so if he isn't going to play at the MLB level this year, you don't need to move him anytime soon.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 21, 2016 12:06:19 GMT -5
Telson good point about Herb Washingston. For those who weren't around, in 1975 Charles Finley, Oakland's creative owner hired a world class sprinter to be a designated pinch runner, who hadn't played baseball since high school. He did get caught a bunch, but stole bases. My buddy and I thought if given a chance if he trained well with coaches on pitchers moves he may have become a weapon, however other players were derisive about him not being a real player and the experiment ended within a season or so. We watched him early on, and he was full speed by his second step and was sliding into second as the catchers throw was still going over the mound!
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Post by borisman on Jun 21, 2016 12:56:00 GMT -5
Telson good point about Herb Washingston. For those who weren't around, in 1975 Charles Finley, Oakland's creative owner hired a world class sprinter to be a designated pinch runner, who hadn't played baseball since high school. He did get caught a bunch, but stole bases. My buddy and I thought if given a chance if he trained well with coaches on pitchers moves he may have become a weapon, however other players were derisive about him not being a real player and the experiment ended within a season or so. We watched him early on, a nd he was full speed by his second step and was sliding into second as the catchers throw was still going over the mound! Would love to see something like that. Track stars are even faster now so something like that could garner a lot of attention.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 21, 2016 13:30:08 GMT -5
Telson good point about Herb Washingston. For those who weren't around, in 1975 Charles Finley, Oakland's creative owner hired a world class sprinter to be a designated pinch runner, who hadn't played baseball since high school. He did get caught a bunch, but stole bases. My buddy and I thought if given a chance if he trained well with coaches on pitchers moves he may have become a weapon, however other players were derisive about him not being a real player and the experiment ended within a season or so. We watched him early on, a nd he was full speed by his second step and was sliding into second as the catchers throw was still going over the mound! Would love to see something like that. Track stars are even faster now so something like that could garner a lot of attention. Interesting article on player speed and the limit of "outs..." eventually, someone will come along for whom 90 feet simply doesn't provide enough time to make a play. www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22979Deion Sanders ran 4.21 in the 40-yard at the combine (that's electronic time, but it doesn't take into account reaction time...ie, the clock starts when the player crosses the plane. In track, you have to account for the average reaction time (0.15 sec) when comparing to football 40s. So that 4.27 is really more like 4.42. Usain Bolt runs about a 4.10 (https://www.freelapusa.com/how-fast-can-usain-bolt-run-the-40-yard-dash/) and there are a fair number of world-class sprinters who are probably in the 4.15-4.18 zone. Deion was a 75% success rate guy. Billy Hamilton is clearly a more intuitive base-stealer, he's over 82%. Hamilton isn't as fast as Deion (there's some comparison on ESPN where Hamilton "outruns" Deion on a triple, but it's by an arm, and Deion *really* jogs out of the box on his triple, and doesn't really start trying until right near first). So, if a legit elite runner (90 speed) could ever learn to steal bases, he might genuinely be unstoppable. If Moncada settles in as a 20-30 SB threat, I'm going to be very disappointed.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jun 22, 2016 13:18:02 GMT -5
Would love to see something like that. Track stars are even faster now so something like that could garner a lot of attention. Interesting article on player speed and the limit of "outs..." eventually, someone will come along for whom 90 feet simply doesn't provide enough time to make a play. www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22979Deion Sanders ran 4.21 in the 40-yard at the combine (that's electronic time, but it doesn't take into account reaction time...ie, the clock starts when the player crosses the plane. In track, you have to account for the average reaction time (0.15 sec) when comparing to football 40s. So that 4.27 is really more like 4.42. Usain Bolt runs about a 4.10 (https://www.freelapusa.com/how-fast-can-usain-bolt-run-the-40-yard-dash/) and there are a fair number of world-class sprinters who are probably in the 4.15-4.18 zone. Deion was a 75% success rate guy. Billy Hamilton is clearly a more intuitive base-stealer, he's over 82%. Hamilton isn't as fast as Deion (there's some comparison on ESPN where Hamilton "outruns" Deion on a triple, but it's by an arm, and Deion *really* jogs out of the box on his triple, and doesn't really start trying until right near first). So, if a legit elite runner (90 speed) could ever learn to steal bases, he might genuinely be unstoppable. If Moncada settles in as a 20-30 SB threat, I'm going to be very disappointed.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jun 22, 2016 13:32:02 GMT -5
True. But the combined base running and stealing threat of Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Benintendi, Moncada, Pedroia, Holt, Swihart, whomever, would unnerve opposing pitchers and teams in a manner not entirely dissimilar from a team of big boppers like the Jays and O's.
The fact that this group seems to be morphing into a high OBP team of big boppers themselves is amazing.
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dd
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Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Jun 25, 2016 9:53:58 GMT -5
BA's prospect report this morning made my day. Now if I can just avoid watching the news I'll be a happy boy!
Yoan Moncada, 2b, Red Sox. Moncada hit his first Double-A homer Friday in Portland’s 11-3 loss to Reading (Phillies). The No. 3 prospect in the game—and almost certain to be No. 1 when we update at midseason—Moncada is 6-for-19 since his promotion. Simply put, there’s nothing Moncada can’t do on a baseball field. He has explosive physicality, great baserunning instincts, excellent bat speed and shows above-average defensive acumen.
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Post by patford on Jun 25, 2016 11:13:44 GMT -5
What is the downside of plugging Moncada (assuming Moncada can play left field) or Benintendi into left field for a short stretch? I mean as opposed to sticking Brentz out there? It would be a no pressure situation, and what if either of them came in and played very well? Would anyone he stunned?
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 25, 2016 11:16:42 GMT -5
Development is important. The downside would be like when they did exactly that to Jackie Bradley before he was ready and it screwed up his game for two years.
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Post by patford on Jun 25, 2016 11:19:41 GMT -5
Development is important. The downside would be like when they did exactly that to Jackie Bradley before he was ready and it screwed up his game for two years. True. I'm thinking that the announced intention is an emergency starter until Holt is back. Basically either of them as opposed to Brentz.
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Post by borisman on Jun 26, 2016 7:59:49 GMT -5
What is the downside of plugging Moncada (assuming Moncada can play left field) or Benintendi into left field for a short stretch? I mean as opposed to sticking Brentz out there? It would be a no pressure situation, and what if either of them came in and played very well? Would anyone he stunned? The advanced secondary pitches will overwhelm either of the young duo, not to mention consistent 90's heat they'll see once they start looking for the off-speed stuff. It's not a good idea imo.
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Post by patford on Jun 26, 2016 8:23:00 GMT -5
Just to be clear, what I'm wondering about is either of the two being used as opposed to Brentz. It would not be a promotion intended to stick. Just a handful of games until Holt is ready. Would it be surprising if either of them filled the temporary need better than Brentz?
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 26, 2016 8:57:53 GMT -5
Brentz is a decent defensive outfielder, so he already has that going for him. It's possible Moncada is already the hitter Brentz is, but impossible that he's so much better that he provides enough value over the course of the week to make up the difference in defense and the potentially awful downside. Benintendi is good defensively so if he can outhit Brentz then he'd provide more value, but that's no guarantee. The best possible upside is what... like .2 WAR? That's nowhere near the upside to justify that kind of risk.
There's probably a fair question as to whether C. Marrero or Ramos is better than Brentz, though. There's 40-man space, so that shouldn't be the consideration.
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Post by rafael on Jun 26, 2016 11:54:04 GMT -5
The biggest problem to me would be burning their options while they are not ready/required to be on the 40-man roster.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 26, 2016 13:24:26 GMT -5
The biggest problem to me would be burning their options while they are not ready/required to be on the 40-man roster. It's a lot more about service time than options. Neither of Moncada or Benintendi are going to be using all of their options.
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Post by jmei on Jun 26, 2016 13:38:03 GMT -5
The biggest problem to me would be burning their options while they are not ready/required to be on the 40-man roster. It's a lot more about service time than options. Neither of Moncada or Benintendi are going to be using all of their options. That's easy to say now, but injuries can complicate the situation very quickly-- see, e.g., Dylan Bundy.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 26, 2016 13:50:24 GMT -5
It's a lot more about service time than options. Neither of Moncada or Benintendi are going to be using all of their options. That's easy to say now, but injuries can complicate the situation very quickly-- see, e.g., Dylan Bundy. Well, if either of them need TJS and rely only on their arms, maybe. But if they're not in the majors by 2020, I doubt the team is going to be looking back at today and regretting putting them on the 40 man. They aren't 4 years away from the majors but if they were, they're not going to be much of a loss.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 26, 2016 14:06:16 GMT -5
That's easy to say now, but injuries can complicate the situation very quickly-- see, e.g., Dylan Bundy. Well, if either of them need TJS and rely only on their arms, maybe. But if they're not in the majors by 2020, I doubt the team is going to be looking back at today and regretting putting them on the 40 man. They aren't 4 years away from the majors but if they were, they're not going to be much of a loss. Yeah, position players are a lot different ... I can't remember a position player who had that problem and turned out to be anything. Ryan Kalish burned through his options because of injury, but he's absolutely the exception that proves the rule here. If a really talented player has such injury problems they burn through their options recovering, it's a much bigger problem than the options.
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Post by trotfan on Jun 26, 2016 18:03:32 GMT -5
moncada and Benny are staying
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 26, 2016 18:21:48 GMT -5
Hanley ,pedey ,shaw,Bucky,Vaz or lottery ticket vet combo of the aforementioned for a Greinke reliever and LF may be the only way to make a run this year Yes but where will Moncada sign ?
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 2, 2016 1:05:46 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 7, 2016 20:17:24 GMT -5
OH MY GOD
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Post by Canseco on Jul 7, 2016 20:24:39 GMT -5
Cripes... that contact sounded like a gunshot. What a rope.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 10, 2016 21:58:15 GMT -5
Moncada with the star turn at the MLB Futures game. a two-run blast in the 8th to put the World team ahead. That combo of speed and power was in play, with a line single also and a steal. Very likely that the Sox will have two 30/30 guys on the team in the next few years, with Betts and this guy - that's if they keep him around and they probably will. If it happens that will be a very rare thing. Hard to know what his ceiling is. He seems to be just tapping into the HR swing. This one was from the right side where he looks able to scoop stuff off his knees, not unlike Trout.
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Post by trotfan on Jul 10, 2016 22:09:47 GMT -5
My God Moncada has easy pop !!!! Wow
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