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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 28, 2014 20:26:38 GMT -5
Well he played 2B for his Cuban team so no surprise there.
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Dec 12, 2014 12:22:24 GMT -5
With the Sox not spending the 130 million, I think they should put that money towards Moncada. We need to keep in mind our 2015 draft has been hurt by losing a 2nd and 3rd round pick. To further weaken our 2015 talent infusion we'll have our international player capped at 300k per player.
I am not saying we can't find players who'll impact our major league roster in 5 years, but it will be much harder.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 12, 2014 12:28:17 GMT -5
With the Sox not spending the 130 million, I think they should put that money towards Moncada. We need to keep in mind our 2015 draft has been hurt by losing a 2nd and 3rd round pick. To further weaken our 2015 talent infusion we'll have our international player capped at 300k per player. I am not saying we can't find players who'll impact our major league roster in 5 years, but it will be much harder. Two second round picks. They lose their second and the Oakland pick. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2015 10:28:53 GMT -5
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jan 2, 2015 11:42:42 GMT -5
Ben Sadler said in a video that Moncado "is a potential franchise player". www.baseballamerica.com/international/new-video-analysis-yoan-moncada/That started making me thing on how much a franchise player is worth. To me a franchise player is well worth over a 100 million dollar contract. Moncado isn't a sure thing, but is close to one as a 19 year old can be. Another nice thing about signing him is how long a team has control of him. I would thing 90 million would be a good amount. |
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Post by bluechip on Jan 2, 2015 12:39:04 GMT -5
I haven't watched the video, but is there any word if has been cleared by the government yet?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 2, 2015 13:54:11 GMT -5
No, he hasn't been cleared yet.
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Post by redsoxnh2014 on Jan 2, 2015 18:58:19 GMT -5
I hate to re-tread old ground but if someone can answer in a nutshell I'd really appreciate it.
I thought we were already way over the IFA limit and into the penalty after they gave 72M to Castillo? If so how can they spend 80 or so on Moncada? I understand that the IFA limit is separate from the threshold for luxury tax on payroll but I thought we were already there.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2015 19:01:17 GMT -5
Castillo was too old to count for IFA. He was a straight up free agent. That cap is usually for 16 year olds and rarely applies to Cubans except in rare cases like Moncada and Iglesias.
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Post by jmei on Jan 2, 2015 19:07:08 GMT -5
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 2, 2015 19:17:52 GMT -5
I hate to re-tread old ground but if someone can answer in a nutshell I'd really appreciate it. I thought we were already way over the IFA limit and into the penalty after they gave 72M to Castillo? If so how can they spend 80 or so on Moncada? I understand that the IFA limit is separate from the threshold for luxury tax on payroll but I thought we were already there. 1) Castillo didn't count towards the cap as he was old enough and played long enough in Cuba to qualify as basically a normal free agent. 2) The Red Sox are indeed over the cap for the current period of July 2, 2014-June 2015 for signings such as Anderson Espinoza and Chris Acosta. They can still sign players for whatever they want until June it's just gonna be added to the penalty they'll pay, which is a 100% tax and two signing periods limited to 300k maximum bonus per player. 3) This is why for the Red Sox to have a chance to sign him he must be cleared before June. It's also why if he gets 40 million as has been especulated the actual cost will be 80 million because of the 100% tax. But that doesn't matter much because any team that signs him will have to pay the 100% tax. For shorter: The Red Sox can sign him if he gets cleared before June. |
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TX
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Post by TX on Jan 2, 2015 19:37:46 GMT -5
The boogeyman Yankees nobody can beat or compete with are back. Well, the Yankees clearly have more financial firepower than the Sox. In terms of financial leverage they and the Dodgers are at the top. If money is the deciding issue and if those teams badly want a player...well, they will get him. Lucchino has acknowledged as much. ...."We are not the Yankees". They had an incredibly long run and ultimately ran out of gas. But even in their worst season over 18 years, they never had a downer like the 2012 or 2014 Sox. We drafted and developed better in the past 15 years or so. They are in the process of retooling that part gobbling up the most international talent this year and restructuring the organization. They have been late to the Cuban party. Let's see where Tomas goes and Moncada after him. This is simply not true. Not unlike the Mariners signing Cano, the team that wants Moncada most, ie, the team willing to accept more risk than even the top payrolls, will have him. The Sox had no problem blowing the field away for Matsuzaka, and word is Yanks wanted him bad. So, fat cash doesn't always matter. Actually, only thing that matters is the level of risk a team has deemed acceptable for a particular talent. Personally, I've seen enough stud draftees fail that I'd rather the Sox stay out of it, assuming of course, the teenager's really gonna cost 9 figures to sign, seal and deliver, which amazes me. Who would have been higher rated, he or Delmon Young? There's nothing wrong with being prudent and saving bullets for a lessor risk profile. |
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Post by redsoxnh2014 on Jan 2, 2015 21:27:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the info and article, much obliged. I also realized belatedly I could have just clicked the International Signings tab on the homepage...oops.
It does bring up another question though. Please forgive me if I'm missing something glaringly obvious since I've already done so once on this thread, but assuming:
1) The cap exists so high-budget teams cannot just buy up and stash the best players, similar to the rationale for the Rule 5 draft 2) MLB teams are at least fairly close to each other in terms of International Signing bonus pool money 3) Moncada will require ~20mil bonus (as cited by the article, which is ~1000% of the available money) 4) Thus any team acquiring Moncada must pay penalties for 80-90% of the bonus 5) Only teams with high budgets to begin with can afford to absorb such penalty payments
Isn't the whole cap system itself kind of self-defeating? Only instead of all the money from the bidding going to Yoan Moncada, roughly half of it will go to Bud Selig/Joe Torre and Co. And if that's the case why isn't the MLBPA justifiably screaming about it?
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2015 21:33:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the info and article, much obliged. I also realized belatedly I could have just clicked the International Signings tab on the homepage...oops.
It does bring up another question though. Please forgive me if I'm missing something glaringly obvious since I've already done so once on this thread, but assuming:
1) The cap exists so high-budget teams cannot just buy up and stash the best players, similar to the rationale for the Rule 5 draft 2) MLB teams are at least fairly close to each other in terms of International Signing bonus pool money 3) Moncada will require ~20mil bonus (as cited by the article, which is ~1000% of the available money) 4) Thus any team acquiring Moncada must pay penalties for 80-90% of the bonus 5) Only teams with high budgets to begin with can afford to absorb such penalty payments
Isn't the whole cap system itself kind of self-defeating? Only instead of all the money from the bidding going to Yoan Moncada, roughly half of it will go to Bud Selig/Joe Torre and Co. And if that's the case why isn't the MLBPA justifiably screaming about it?
It's kind of like the luxury tax. Teams who have a lot of money can spend it, but with penalty. And there's more of a penalty because they can't sign anyone for more than $300k on any one player for the next two seasons. |
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 3, 2015 0:11:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the info and article, much obliged. I also realized belatedly I could have just clicked the International Signings tab on the homepage...oops.
It does bring up another question though. Please forgive me if I'm missing something glaringly obvious since I've already done so once on this thread, but assuming:
1) The cap exists so high-budget teams cannot just buy up and stash the best players, similar to the rationale for the Rule 5 draft 2) MLB teams are at least fairly close to each other in terms of International Signing bonus pool money 3) Moncada will require ~20mil bonus (as cited by the article, which is ~1000% of the available money) 4) Thus any team acquiring Moncada must pay penalties for 80-90% of the bonus 5) Only teams with high budgets to begin with can afford to absorb such penalty payments
Isn't the whole cap system itself kind of self-defeating? Only instead of all the money from the bidding going to Yoan Moncada, roughly half of it will go to Bud Selig/Joe Torre and Co. And if that's the case why isn't the MLBPA justifiably screaming about it?
[ The MLBPA isn't screaming about it because Moncanda is not a member and he may never be. mlbpa members are busy signing $150m - $200m deals. Why would they care about some 19 year old Cuban kid losing out on $10m? I'm sorry but no one is holding up the new CBA so that a talented Cuban can make a few pennies more. |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jan 3, 2015 0:33:03 GMT -5
This is exactly the player the Yankees need. I think they'd be foolish to let Moncada go if it isn't a blind auction.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 3, 2015 2:54:45 GMT -5
To me, there's close to zero chance Moncada gets remotely close to the numbers being thrown out here. He's 19, likely 2 1/2 yeqrs from the majors. Iglesias got $6.25m. That's like laying even numbers on a bet that Margot will be a superstar. Can he be ? Sure. But I sure as hell wouldn't bet on it. There are better ways to spend resources.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 3, 2015 3:32:41 GMT -5
Moncada is considered way better than Margot. If he was draft elegible he would be the favorite to go #1. Would comfortably be top 10 if not top 5 in prospects in all of baseball. Considered way better than Iglesias. Considered the top Cuban teen prospect to leave the island with guys like Soler and Puig who got 30 or so and 40 or so respectably. That is why he is expected to get so much money.
Now if your scouts don't believe the hype then sure pass. But if they do then it's a different story.
If let's say Kris Bryant was a free agent he'd probably get more than Moncada is being projected of getting. It's a matter of if you believe Moncada is that level of prospect.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 3, 2015 4:35:19 GMT -5
To me, there's close to zero chance Moncada gets remotely close to the numbers being thrown out here. He's 19, likely 2 1/2 yeqrs from the majors. Iglesias got $6.25m. That's like laying even numbers on a bet that Margot will be a superstar. Can he be ? Sure. But I sure as hell wouldn't bet on it. There are better ways to spend resources. Look how much Soler and Puig received. The note the fact that Moncada has more hype. Margot is a bad comparison. How much would Bryce Harper have received in bonus money if he wasn't subject to the draft? |
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 3, 2015 7:23:49 GMT -5
I also think Iglesias would get more than six million in today's international/Cuban market. And I could see Margot getting somewhere in the area of 20m if he was a FA. When you consider how highly rated Moncada is it's not that big a leap to see 80m.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 3, 2015 9:19:36 GMT -5
"Moncada could command a $20 million signing bonus, which would mean an expenditure of $40 million for the Red Sox, including the tax."
From the Projo article linked above by jmei. I'll believe an 80 signing bonus or even 40 when I see it.
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Post by jmei on Jan 3, 2015 9:35:43 GMT -5
That Projo article is fairly old and the numbers it cites are outdated. He won't get $80m himself (because of the 100% tax), but I could certainly see him getting $40m (for a $80m total expenditure).
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 3, 2015 9:44:21 GMT -5
Links where the numbers have risen ? $40 would be near the extreme - extreme end for me. I also don't see other teams other than the four already over cap getting involved prior to July and other than the Sox, none of those have been spending this off season. With the entire Cuba situation it seems unlikely that teams will want to miss out on the first year flood.
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Post by jmei on Jan 3, 2015 10:26:22 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 3, 2015 11:46:35 GMT -5
Thanks, both have him in the 30-40 range which surprises me considering they haven't seen him against live pitching and the ground ball questions. Kiley McDaniel did bring up something I hadn't thought of, that the teams other than the four could make an offer that was worth his just delaying his signing until after July 2.
That, to me, makes the Cubs the biggest threat. The locals in the NY papers recently have been hypothesizing that the Yankees are going to freeze spending large dollars until 2017 when a number of large contracts start coming off the books. Mancada's MLB timeline would suit the Cubs general prospect timetable well. The Angels haven't spent jack this off-season in spite of glaring issues with their rotation. Not even rumors of their talking to any of the available starters.
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