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Post by sammo420 on Dec 8, 2015 22:40:52 GMT -5
It's certainly been an entertaining off season.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 8, 2015 22:42:58 GMT -5
They get younger and more athletic up the middle for their 7th starter? Like the deal for Yanks. Castro is older than Refsnyder. lol sorry I need to type clearer. I meant compared to last year when they had Drew starting 115 games, and with guys like Ryan and Ackley on the roster. I also don't think they're fully sold on Refsnyder's defense (which from I've read is essentially slightly below average to maybe average) and Castro's grades out significantly better.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 8, 2015 22:44:03 GMT -5
Wow, I'm not really sure why people are offended that Miami is asking for your first 5 born kids.
I'd hope my team did the same if they had a 23 stud pitcher. No sense trading him unless someone is willing to cripple themselves to get him.
Also, I'm not sure how having a steep asking price is making it so they don't have friends? Especially, when you consider what Shelby Miller, a pitcher who couldn't hold a candle to Jose Fernandez, just got.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 8, 2015 22:47:40 GMT -5
The Yankees have traded Adam Warren and Brendan Ryan for Starlin Castro. I'm not sure Castro is better than Refsnyder an losing Warren cuts into their depth. Warren had a 2.7 bWAR this year, Castro's is 2.3 over the past three years. So of course this all means Castro is going to put it together and have 50 hits a year against the Red Sox. Classic deal by the Yanks. They seem to love to trade these 6th starter swingman types that seemingly often put up good numbers for the Yanks (e.g. David Phelps, Shane Greene, Vidal Nuno). We can only hope that Castro performs as poorly as his worst years. Honestly, don't see him as a great fit in NY but its not like they give up a ton to get him. Most of his power is to left but a few of his doubles may go out in the short porch in right. There was also a big spike in his numbers when playing 2nd. Not sure how much there is to look into that though. Maybe he was more comfortable? Either way, they've got quite a few guys ahead of Warren on the pitching depth chart and they've added an everyday player up the middle, so it seems like it's a fine deal.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 8, 2015 22:51:41 GMT -5
Wow, I'm not really sure why people are offended that Miami is asking for your first 5 born kids. I'd hope my team did the same if they had a 23 stud pitcher. No sense trading him unless someone is willing to cripple themselves to get him. Also, I'm not sure how having a steep asking price is making it so they don't have friends? Especially, when you consider what Shelby Miller, a pitcher who couldn't hold a candle to Jose Fernandez, just got. Yeah I mean, they don't want to trade him, they're just hoping for some idiot like Dave Stewart to pay the Price. They just got a little too greedy. Fernandez is insanely good. He also came back from Tommy John and had another arm injury. Very few innings thrown last year. Should be on innings limits for 2 of his remaining 3 controllable years. I think the max prospect cost I'd be willing to spend on him is probably about 40% of what the Marlins want, and I think the Sox are in the same boat. edit: we're already seeing the effect of the red sox having an ace, I now capitalize the word "price" when I'm referring to cost.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 8, 2015 22:53:19 GMT -5
Cousin Sal in Brooklyn is gonna have fun calling sports radio to complain about the lack of want from Castro.
The Yankees are getting younger, that's good for them, but idk if they are getting better.
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Post by heisenberg on Dec 8, 2015 22:58:26 GMT -5
Pretty insane for Miller. Also the reported asking price for Fernandez from the Dodgers. I kind of can't believe they have the gall to ask for Urias, Pederson, etc. it is literally mind boggling. Fish have no real reason to make a deal, but sweet Jesus. Not going to make any friends with other GMs or owners being like this. Meanwhile, Billy Beane is kicking back, hands behind his head, watching the price of Sonny Gray go up, up, up.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 8, 2015 23:00:48 GMT -5
I can't imagine having the 1.1 pick in the draft, and six months later deciding its value is no more than a compensatory piece to obtaining Shelby Miller. Insane. If they did indeed sour on Swanson after they drafted him, then thats just poor drafting. You should be so sure about who you select at 1.1, that you shouldn't possibly have a change of heart after short season ball.
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Post by thursty on Dec 8, 2015 23:03:15 GMT -5
I can't imagine having the 1.1 pick in the draft, and six months later deciding its value is no more than a compensatory piece to obtaining Shelby Miller. Insane. If they did indeed sour on Swanson after they drafted him, then thats just poor drafting. You should be so sure about who you select at 1.1, that you shouldn't possibly have a change of heart after short season ball. what about 1.7?
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 8, 2015 23:03:48 GMT -5
Thing I just realized: This isn't even the worst trade Dave Stewart has made with the Braves of his most recent top draft choice.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 8, 2015 23:04:05 GMT -5
I can't imagine having the 1.1 pick in the draft, and six months later deciding its value is no more than a compensatory piece to obtaining Shelby Miller. Insane. If they did indeed sour on Swanson after they drafted him, then thats just poor drafting. You should be so sure about who you select at 1.1, that you shouldn't possibly have a change of heart after short season ball. what about 1.7? Honestly, completely different than 1.1....but I'd still be pissed
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Post by thursty on Dec 8, 2015 23:16:48 GMT -5
Thing I just realized: This isn't even the worst trade Dave Stewart has made with the Braves of his most recent top draft choice. although I'm not one to scruple over piling on Stewart, LaRussa is the ultimate decision-maker in the desert.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 8, 2015 23:17:15 GMT -5
Thing I just realized: This isn't even the worst trade Dave Stewart has made with the Braves of his most recent top draft choice. Don't the Braves now own the Diamondbacks 2013, 2014, and 2015 1st round picks? lol
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 8, 2015 23:19:21 GMT -5
Castro is older than Refsnyder. lol sorry I need to type clearer. I meant compared to last year when they had Drew starting 115 games, and with guys like Ryan and Ackley on the roster. I also don't think they're fully sold on Refsnyder's defense (which from I've read is essentially slightly below average to maybe average) and Castro's grades out significantly better. Lol right I forgot when building their 2016 roster they should do it relative to the 2015 one rather than the one in place for 2016 my bad lol. Refsnyder isn't great defensively but he really can hit. I'm pretty thrilled if the Yankees aren't sold on him.
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Post by thursty on Dec 8, 2015 23:19:43 GMT -5
if you're into schadenfreude I love seeing the reaction to the news change as the details leak out
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 8, 2015 23:28:45 GMT -5
lol sorry I need to type clearer. I meant compared to last year when they had Drew starting 115 games, and with guys like Ryan and Ackley on the roster. I also don't think they're fully sold on Refsnyder's defense (which from I've read is essentially slightly below average to maybe average) and Castro's grades out significantly better. Lol right I forgot when building their 2016 roster they should do it relative to the 2015 one rather than the one in place for 2016 my bad lol. Refsnyder isn't great defensively but he really can hit. I'm pretty thrilled if the Yankees aren't sold on him. Refsnyder hit in 2014 as well, and was passed over at nearly every opportunity in 2015. Everything I've heard has been they aren't sold on his defense, and that seems to pan out as they clearly aren't giving him a shot. Doesn't take a genius to realize there's something about him that gives them pause, and it seems like that's the defense. Though you're probably right, you obviously know the player better than they do. Maybe call them up and talk to Cashman, I hear he's pretty new to the game.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 8, 2015 23:32:31 GMT -5
The Yanks are also trying to upgrade a spot in the rotation, reports earlier were Cashman was going to dangle Gardner and Miller, which doesn't make huge sense, because that's infers there's a club looking to add quite a bit of payroll for what you would assume is a cheaper starter. Refsnyder is now a decently valuable trade chip and gives them another look on the trade front.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 8, 2015 23:33:05 GMT -5
Right sorry, we'll all stop saying what players we think should and shouldn't be played, traded, and ranked because their teams know them better than we do. Hey team we can close the forum because Brian Cashman doesn't care what I think.
EDIT: Definitely possible that they are looking to include Refsnyder in a deal and didn't want to wait on it before nabbing Castro (no accounting for taste). And I guess it's also possible that they flip Castro in part of a bigger deal, which would be a pretty clever thing to do.
EDIT again: Up until about 2011 or so the vast majority of overwhelming acquisitions were the high-priced free agents and trades. He seemed to get more of a nose for picking up useful second-tier talent in recent years. Warren for Castro really seems like a 2008 Yankees type move. I wonder if any of that is not having Eppler in his ear anymore.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 8, 2015 23:50:22 GMT -5
Hey I like Refsnyder's bat as well, I just look at them and see an infield consisting of Texas, Didi, and Headley, and realize that they seem to value infield defense. That staff of Tanaka, Pineda, Severino, Eovaldi and Nova generated a pretty steady rate of ground balls last year, all hovering around 50%.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Dec 9, 2015 1:25:32 GMT -5
Lol I have no problem bashing LaRussa. He hasn't proved he's anything but a crappy influence in a crappy front office. We don't need to take it easy on him because of his managerial success.
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 9, 2015 4:23:57 GMT -5
Prospects are the real market inefficiency. How do you think the Rays have over-achieved for almost a decade? To put it another way, the discount rate on future wins is currently waaaay too high.
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Post by burythehammer on Dec 9, 2015 7:06:02 GMT -5
I can't believe it took less than three weeks for someone to make a worse trade than the Kimbrel deal.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 9, 2015 7:28:53 GMT -5
The Yankees have traded Adam Warren and Brendan Ryan for Starlin Castro. I'm not sure Castro is better than Refsnyder an losing Warren cuts into their depth. Warren had a 2.7 bWAR this year, Castro's is 2.3 over the past three years. So of course this all means Castro is going to put it together and have 50 hits a year against the Red Sox. Yeah, and also Castro's walk rate will go from 3.6% to 13.6% next year because if Yankees aren't swinging, they aren't strikes.
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Post by burythehammer on Dec 9, 2015 7:31:45 GMT -5
clarkspencer @clarkspencer 7m7 minutes ago Hearing that #Marlins had deal working with D-Backs: Jose Fernandez for Corbin, Swanson and 3 others -- until Zona landed Shelby Miller. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Dbacks don't really have guys that compare to our top 3/4 (beyond Swanson), so just for the sake of argument, we'll assume the "3 others" were the guys in the ATL deal. So the Red Sox comp would be ERod, Benintendi, JBJ, Owens and a 5th piece. That's....a ton, but not totally insane (assuming the 5th piece is a 5th piece and not a stud). Then again I'm assuming it didn't happen because MIA was asking for a bit more. edit: Frisaro says as much: "Corbin, Inciarte, Blair, Swanson, Drury". Who's our equivalent of Drury? Marrero?
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 9, 2015 8:52:18 GMT -5
Swanson is much closer in value to Moncada than he is to Benintendi and I'd take Corbin over Rodriguez. It's a substantial package but more reasonable than the rumored haul the Marlins wanted from the Dodgers.
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