SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
What Can Be Done to Fix the Sox?
|
Post by pokeefe363 on Jun 15, 2015 13:45:26 GMT -5
Napoli, Buchholz, Uehara, Layne, and Tazawa all represent players that tend to get overvalued in the trade market. Power bats, mid-rotation starters who teams still think can be aces, relievers, and especially average stuff relievers who are "cost controlled." Victorino could fetch a lottery ticket too if he can come back healthy. As much as I'd love to dump Sandoval and Hanley, I doubt that deal will present itself.
As far as Porcello and Miley, I'm not as worried about them. The defense has been awful and both are pitching well below their career norms, but are young guys with low mileage on their arms. When your corner players plus DH are OPS'ing about .700 combined with bad defense, that makes it clear where you need to focus on.
The one move I'd also make though is Kelly to the bullpen and to bring Johnson up. I've been a huge Kelly proponent, but he doesn't seem to command the ball well enough as a starter.
|
|
|
Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 15, 2015 14:10:36 GMT -5
Napoli and Victorino won't get anything. But, could be sweeteners in a deal. Buchholz + Vic to a team like the Cubbies. Or, Koji + Nap to Pittsburgh. We'd have to pay all of Vic or Nap's salary.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Jun 15, 2015 14:41:20 GMT -5
Napoli and Victorino won't get anything. But, could be sweeteners in a deal. Buchholz + Vic to a team like the Cubbies. Or, Koji + Nap to Pittsburgh. We'd have to pay all of Vic or Nap's salary. So, what's the point of trading them if we're getting no tax relief? Napoli isn't blocking anyone and Shane isn't healthy. Both are gone when the season is over. I don't see how this fixes anything.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Jun 15, 2015 14:45:44 GMT -5
I can't see Buch being a serious trade candidate unless you get back good pitching depth back. If you are bold enough to write in a 2016 rotation of Porcello, ERod, Miley, Kelly, Johnson, that leaves you with Owens and Wright as the only true SP depth. We could dip into the very deep SP free agent market, but that is certain to be expensive and this team already has 113M committed to 9 players in 2016
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jun 15, 2015 14:46:10 GMT -5
Napoli and Victorino won't get anything. But, could be sweeteners in a deal. Buchholz + Vic to a team like the Cubbies. Or, Koji + Nap to Pittsburgh. We'd have to pay all of Vic or Nap's salary. So, what's the point of trading them if we're getting no tax relief? Napoli isn't blocking anyone and Shane isn't healthy. Both are gone when the season is over. I don't see how this fixes anything. I think the idea is that another team might be willing to give up something prospect-wise for a subsidized Napoli or Victorino.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Jun 15, 2015 14:55:32 GMT -5
I wonder what kind of return it would take to justify trading Tazawa/Uehara.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jun 15, 2015 14:59:32 GMT -5
There's not going to be another Punto deal, but I could see a bad contract swap. I'll think about it some and post some ideas in the trade proposal subforum. "Say it ain't so....."
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,020
|
Post by ericmvan on Jun 15, 2015 15:17:08 GMT -5
Don't overreact to this year's problems. And don't jeopardize the future trying to rescue this year.
People hate to hear about bad luck, but it's crap luck to have the (roughly) 5th and 12th best catchers in MLB both get injured, leaving you with a pair of guys who have been -1.0 WAR (including framing) in just 64 games. Add that to some bad luck on balls in play, and then players start pressing. Bad mindsets get entrenched.
What can be done? I would start working out Hanley at 1B. I'd start playing Ortiz there 2-3 times a month vs. RHP, and continue platooning him at DH with Hanley. At some point fairly soon I want to hand the CF job to JBJ, with Rusney getting the regular LF innings that Hanley doesn't. At some point I hope Napoli gets hot, looks great, and can be dealt for something interesting, opening up Hanley at 1B and Rusney regularly in the OF.
Sandoval wouldn't be the first expensive FA to flop in his first year and then go on to be precisely the solid guy who was expected. Combine that with the stopgap 1B / DH solution (if Hanley is -15 / 150 at 1B, that just costs you a win if he only starts 90 games at 1B), and add the big catching upgrade, and the 2016 offense and defense is looking like what we expected from this year.
You would need a RH hitting 1B in the scenario where Hanley moves to 1B, and for the end of this year that can be Craig. Maybe someone else next year. Plenty of alternatives in the world for the Nava bench spot, should he not come back in the second half.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 15:22:09 GMT -5
Milwaukee has a history of liking fat players. Perhaps they'd be interested in Pablo.
|
|
danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
|
Post by danr on Jun 15, 2015 15:26:45 GMT -5
We may have widely different opinions on many things but there definitely is strong support on this site for getting Hanley out of LF as much as possible and bringing up JBJ. I wonder how long it is going to take for Sox management to do it. -- Breslow reactivated and Shaw sent back to Pawtucket. Definitely not something that will do much for the team. I don't understand them keeping Bianci. I would have liked Shaw to get some chances at both 1st and 3rd. There have been good reports coming from Pawtucket about his fielding at both positions, and he has been mashing at the plate.
|
|
|
Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 15, 2015 15:35:50 GMT -5
So, what's the point of trading them if we're getting no tax relief? Napoli isn't blocking anyone and Shane isn't healthy. Both are gone when the season is over. I don't see how this fixes anything. I think the idea is that another team might be willing to give up something prospect-wise for a subsidized Napoli or Victorino. Right see what you can get for Buccholz. When Theo balks, you say. Hey, we'll throw in 2x champion Victorino for ya. We'll even pay him. In the sales vernacular, it's a way of over-coming an objection.
|
|
|
Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 15, 2015 16:42:37 GMT -5
1. I would like to see Shaw play. Maybe they figure they want to give the playing time to the current group. Shaw is first option year, seems like this year he is just a bench fill in. Wait til next year. 2. Trading Napoli doesn't do anything that benching Napoli wouldn't do. Eventually, or soon, give Napoli the Carp role and 1B is now open. 3. Playing Ortiz 2 days per week at 1B gets Hanley out of LF a bit.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jun 15, 2015 18:03:32 GMT -5
Milwaukee has a history of liking fat players. Perhaps they'd be interested in Pablo. You meant Phat right?
|
|
|
Post by moonstone2 on Jun 15, 2015 20:14:06 GMT -5
Don't overreact to this year's problems. And don't jeopardize the future trying to rescue this year. People hate to hear about bad luck, but it's crap luck to have the (roughly) 5th and 12th best catchers in MLB both get injured, leaving you with a pair of guys who have been -1.0 WAR (including framing) in just 64 games. Add that to some bad luck on balls in play, and then players start pressing. Bad mindsets get entrenched. What can be done? I would start working out Hanley at 1B. I'd start playing Ortiz there 2-3 times a month vs. RHP, and continue platooning him at DH with Hanley. At some point fairly soon I want to hand the CF job to JBJ, with Rusney getting the regular LF innings that Hanley doesn't. At some point I hope Napoli gets hot, looks great, and can be dealt for something interesting, opening up Hanley at 1B and Rusney regularly in the OF. Sandoval wouldn't be the first expensive FA to flop in his first year and then go on to be precisely the solid guy who was expected. Combine that with the stopgap 1B / DH solution (if Hanley is -15 / 150 at 1B, that just costs you a win if he only starts 90 games at 1B), and add the big catching upgrade, and the 2016 offense and defense is looking like what we expected from this year. You would need a RH hitting 1B in the scenario where Hanley moves to 1B, and for the end of this year that can be Craig. Maybe someone else next year. Plenty of alternatives in the world for the Nava bench spot, should he not come back in the second half. When the team finishes last and under .500 three years out of four it's not luck. It's a bad team. If the Red Sox go into this off-season with the mindset that they have just been unlucky all this time, they will be in last for an awfully long time.
|
|
|
Post by whoareyoukarimgarcia on Jun 15, 2015 20:23:09 GMT -5
If Farrell does get fired either mid season or at the end of the year, how does everyone feel about Bud Black? He is a better tactician, has experience with young players and player development, and has a proven track record in the the majors. We knew what Farrell was in Toronto, so none of this should be a surprise. Besides a managerial change, I would rather see what Craig can do at 1st and trade Nap for a PTBL at this point if it means some salary relief. How many games has defense at 3rd alone cost this team. Call JBJ up, and make this a defense first team, while calling up the young pitchers. Play this year out as painful as it is to watch, and see if a new philosophy of defense can give a better return in the second half.
|
|
|
Post by sibbysisti on Jun 15, 2015 20:42:54 GMT -5
We may have widely different opinions on many things but there definitely is strong support on this site for getting Hanley out of LF as much as possible and bringing up JBJ. I wonder how long it is going to take for Sox management to do it. -- Breslow reactivated and Shaw sent back to Pawtucket. Definitely not something that will do much for the team. I don't understand them keeping Bianci. I would have liked Shaw to get some chances at both 1st and 3rd. There have been good reports coming from Pawtucket about his fielding at both positions, and he has been mashing at the plate. Jeff Bianchi DFA. Guess they read this site.
|
|
TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 3,003
|
Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 15, 2015 20:45:34 GMT -5
Given how close they're cutting it, I doubt that Allen Craig has a shot at getting back in the mix. And I think I read that they could do the same thing with Masterson. Giving Masterson the Craig treatment halfway through the season would knock off another $4.75 million for luxury tax purposes. Masterson had 6 1/2 years service time coming into this season, so if he ever cleared waivers ... they couldn't outright him without his permission, making him a free agent. If he ended up a free agent, the Sox are on the hook for the full season $ 9.5 million (minus any prorated portion of the minimum if he signs with another team).
I have seen no information that a released player does not count toward luxury tax.
reference: CRAIG: A player with 3 years of Major League service may refuse an outright assignment and choose to become a free agent immediately or at the end of the season.
MASTERSON: A player with 5 years of Major League service who refuses an outright assignment is entitled to the money due according to the terms of his contract. www.cbabaseball.com/rules/index.php?title=Outright_Assignment_(MLB)
Hey, thanks for clarifying. A released player absolutely counts toward the luxury cap. Otherwise, we'd be releasing about half the guys on this team. That being the case with Masterson, I guess our best hope (and it's a slim one) would be for him to return and put together a run of decent starts. Maybe someone would take him if we subsidize a bit. I'm for anything we have to do to get under $189 million.
|
|
wbcd
Rookie
Posts: 33
|
Post by wbcd on Jun 15, 2015 21:37:57 GMT -5
Well since I'm on a roll.....let me make a point about DEFENSE. * * * * So what should any team be trying to build around to be in a game every night? Defense, base-running, knowing what the situation is at all times, and hustling your butt off. None of those points define one Hanley Ramirez. Start there! Change that! Bring up Bradley. Minimize poor defense and it will help our pitching considerably. They tried that last year - IIRC, Sox had good defense, very good pitching, and still continued to lose games because they couldn't hit a lick.
What really works if the Sox had guys who can play defense and hit.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jun 16, 2015 5:51:27 GMT -5
Well since I'm on a roll.....let me make a point about DEFENSE. * * * * So what should any team be trying to build around to be in a game every night? Defense, base-running, knowing what the situation is at all times, and hustling your butt off. None of those points define one Hanley Ramirez. Start there! Change that! Bring up Bradley. Minimize poor defense and it will help our pitching considerably. They tried that last year - IIRC, Sox had good defense, very good pitching, and still continued to lose games because they couldn't hit a lick.
What really works if the Sox had guys who can play defense and hit.
To sleep: Perchance to dream: ay there's the rub
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 16, 2015 6:51:28 GMT -5
Don't overreact to this year's problems. And don't jeopardize the future trying to rescue this year. People hate to hear about bad luck, but it's crap luck to have the (roughly) 5th and 12th best catchers in MLB both get injured, leaving you with a pair of guys who have been -1.0 WAR (including framing) in just 64 games. Add that to some bad luck on balls in play, and then players start pressing. Bad mindsets get entrenched. What can be done? I would start working out Hanley at 1B. I'd start playing Ortiz there 2-3 times a month vs. RHP, and continue platooning him at DH with Hanley. At some point fairly soon I want to hand the CF job to JBJ, with Rusney getting the regular LF innings that Hanley doesn't. At some point I hope Napoli gets hot, looks great, and can be dealt for something interesting, opening up Hanley at 1B and Rusney regularly in the OF. Sandoval wouldn't be the first expensive FA to flop in his first year and then go on to be precisely the solid guy who was expected. Combine that with the stopgap 1B / DH solution (if Hanley is -15 / 150 at 1B, that just costs you a win if he only starts 90 games at 1B), and add the big catching upgrade, and the 2016 offense and defense is looking like what we expected from this year. You would need a RH hitting 1B in the scenario where Hanley moves to 1B, and for the end of this year that can be Craig. Maybe someone else next year. Plenty of alternatives in the world for the Nava bench spot, should he not come back in the second half. When the team finishes last and under .500 three years out of four it's not luck. It's a bad team. If the Red Sox go into this off-season with the mindset that they have just been unlucky all this time, they will be in last for an awfully long time. Thank you. This luck narrative is excuse making. I was reading Alex Speier's blurb about the Sox that mentions that they're getting outscored a run per game. At the current pace they're going, and there's little evidence to think the pace will subside substantially, they could wind up being outscored by 150 runs. That's a distinct possibility. He mentioned they haven't been outscored that bad in a season since 1932 when they went 43-111. We know runs scored/runs allowed does a pretty good job describing the quality of a baseball team. If the Sox go 67-95 or thereabouts getting outscored by 150 runs or so, that's not an unlucky team. That's a really bad team. Honestly, if it were another team being outscored by 150 runs or so, wouldn't we be classifying them as a terrible team rather than a team who had too much bad luck? Again, the Sox have been relatively healthy. They haven't been decimated by injuries as they had been in other years where they were competing. Wished they had better luck in late 2008 when Lowell and Beckett got hurt late in the season and Bartolo Colon hadn't decided to find the fountain of youth - that team could have repeated as Champions, but that was some bad luck. 2015 is not bad luck. You could say, well the pitching isn't that bad. OK, fine, maybe it's not and it's the defense that's wretched. Maybe they should score more runs they do, but stranding runners like crazy and banging into DPs makes their offense look less. But still at some point, the bottom line is the bottom line, especially when it's a last place finish 3 years out of 4.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jun 16, 2015 7:10:00 GMT -5
But still at some point, the bottom line is the bottom line, especially when it's a last place finish 3 years out of 4. This is slightly misleading insofar as the organization intentionally gutted its roster in the second halves of 2012 and 2014. If the Red Sox did not make the Punto trade and dealt Lester, Lackey, and Miller, those teams would not have been last place teams.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,846
|
Post by wcp3 on Jun 16, 2015 7:49:38 GMT -5
But still at some point, the bottom line is the bottom line, especially when it's a last place finish 3 years out of 4. This is slightly misleading insofar as the organization intentionally gutted its roster in the second halves of 2012 and 2014. If the Red Sox did not make the Punto trade and dealt Lester, Lackey, and Miller, those teams would not have been last place teams. If it were two in four years, I'd agree with you. But three in four is...well, we're getting close to a good sample size here. Regardless of exactly where they finished, the Sox have been bad three of the past four seasons. It's no longer a coincidence.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jun 16, 2015 7:58:47 GMT -5
This is slightly misleading insofar as the organization intentionally gutted its roster in the second halves of 2012 and 2014. If the Red Sox did not make the Punto trade and dealt Lester, Lackey, and Miller, those teams would not have been last place teams. If it were two in four years, I'd agree with you. But three in four is...well, we're getting close to a good sample size here. Regardless of exactly where they finished, the Sox have been bad three of the past four seasons. It's no longer a coincidence. The narrative doesn't sound as convincing when you say 'they were in position to sell on July 31st' 3 out of 4 seasons as it does to say "LAST PLACE, PANIC!"
|
|
|
Post by mannofsteele on Jun 16, 2015 8:02:13 GMT -5
But still at some point, the bottom line is the bottom line, especially when it's a last place finish 3 years out of 4. This is slightly misleading insofar as the organization intentionally gutted its roster in the second halves of 2012 and 2014. If the Red Sox did not make the Punto trade and dealt Lester, Lackey, and Miller, those teams would not have been last place teams. I can definitely agree with the Lackey trade. Looking back it was and still is the "scratch your head" trade that was made during that season. While it was an interesting concept to add to the 40 man roster versus going the typical approach of MLB talent for prospects, it didn't work at all. Joe Kelly has been below league average and Craig is off the 40 man roster in AAA. I won't go into the Lester fiasco.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,603
|
Post by radiohix on Jun 16, 2015 8:07:24 GMT -5
Hanley has a $22M vesting option for 2019 guaranteed if he has 1,050 plate appearances in 2017-18 so DHing him almost garantees him reaching that. In french they have an expression that says "avoir le cul entre deux chaises" and that's the situation that the FO is in now.
|
|
|