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What Can Be Done to Fix the Sox?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 10, 2015 10:00:53 GMT -5
I'd like to see a comparison done of Shaw and Moss to Freddie Lynn. Compare them to Ted Williams and Babe Ruth while we're at it.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 11, 2015 0:56:15 GMT -5
Yeah, I think they were hoping Escobar could be that LHRP. But either rust or ineffectiveness are making him not look like an option. Because Owens has the mediocre fastball and the outstanding change up, but below average slider and curveball, maybe Owens can be that lefty reliever. Johnson throws 4 different pitches and can be effective when he locates. But if he doesn't locate, he will get killed at the majors.
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jul 11, 2015 11:39:19 GMT -5
Either release Masterson, or stash him in the bullpen if can be effective. Call up Johnson to replace Masterson. The Sox could keep Masterson in the rotation to help tank the system. If Clay avoids the DL then I would consider an ace pitcher if we are not swept by the Yankees. If Clay needs TJS, then I would bring up Owens.
It looks more like a dream that the Sox will contend now.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 11, 2015 15:22:32 GMT -5
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 11, 2015 16:14:17 GMT -5
It will be fascinating to see how the fifth starting spot is filled. Three of the four now are LHPs. Owens is pitching well enough to be worth a tryout, but would they really go with four LHPs? Wright hasn't been pitching all that well recently but he would seem to have the edge.
Of course, because of the All-Star break, this won't have to be decided for another week. Something else could happen in that time.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 11, 2015 16:24:43 GMT -5
I was initially surprised on the timing of bringing up Johnson just before the All-Star break, but the more I thought of it....the more I think it was a good idea to get him over some of the "shakes" and get used to his teammates. He will most definitely be starting one of the 1st games back after the All-Star game is finished, and I'm looking forward to see him compete. I thought Clay was a sure DL candidate, and thought they may bring up a relief arm for the 2 Yank games....but this is better for Johnson.
I like what I'm seeing again from Henry Owens and I can see him getting an opportunity also in the next month. Actual good news about Buchholz.
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Post by jmei on Jul 11, 2015 17:04:36 GMT -5
I was initially surprised on the timing of bringing up Johnson just before the All-Star break, but the more I thought of it....the more I think it was a good idea to get him over some of the "shakes" and get used to his teammates. He will most definitely be starting one of the 1st games back after the All-Star game is finished, and I'm looking forward to see him compete. I thought Clay was a sure DL candidate, and thought they may bring up a relief arm for the 2 Yank games....but this is better for Johnson. I disagree with this. If they're to seriously make a run at things, every game matters, and bringing up another reliever rather than Johnson would allow Farrell to be more careful with his RP usage in a very important divisional series (e.g., they can have Layne be a strict LOOGY-type rather than forcing him to face righties in high-leverage situations just because they're worried about running out of arms in the pen). Or bring up Nava to start at 1B or a guy like Bradley who can be a pinch-runner/defensive replacement. When they're really out of it, they can start doing stuff like this, but if they want to win games, Johnson is just wasting a roster spot if he's not a bullpen option over the next two days.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 11, 2015 17:10:11 GMT -5
I was initially surprised on the timing of bringing up Johnson just before the All-Star break, but the more I thought of it....the more I think it was a good idea to get him over some of the "shakes" and get used to his teammates. He will most definitely be starting one of the 1st games back after the All-Star game is finished, and I'm looking forward to see him compete. I thought Clay was a sure DL candidate, and thought they may bring up a relief arm for the 2 Yank games....but this is better for Johnson. I disagree with this. If they're to seriously make a run at things, every game matters, and bringing up another reliever rather than Johnson would allow Farrell to be more careful with his RP usage in a very important divisional series (e.g., they can have Layne be a strict LOOGY-type rather than forcing him to face righties in high-leverage situations just because they're worried about running out of arms in the pen). Or bring up Nava to start at 1B or a guy like Bradley who can be a pinch-runner/defensive replacement. When they're really out of it, they can start doing stuff like this, but if they want to win games, Johnson is just wasting a roster spot if he's not a bullpen option over the next two days. Has anyone said he's not an option? I'm working under the assumption he is, because it doesn't make sense otherwise. They're facing a RHH heavy team so it makes sense to use him out of the pen for a couple days too.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 11, 2015 17:15:01 GMT -5
It is impossible for me to envision the Sox making a serious run at the post-season without Buchholz - or another pitcher (or two) or equal or better skill. I have to think that Johnson will get in one of these two games, if nothing more, than just for a look.
If management is serious about this season, there have to be some significant moves in their plans, and something might well happen during, or shortly after, the break. The sooner Johnson faces major league hitters the sooner they will have an idea what can be done with him - either added to the rotation, or included in a deal, or sent back to Pawtucket.
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Post by jmei on Jul 11, 2015 17:15:21 GMT -5
Yeah, if he's an option and Farrell is willing to use him in at least medium-leverage situations, I'm fine with it.
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Post by chud on Jul 13, 2015 16:24:51 GMT -5
The two worst things happened to the Sox at about the same time...Buchholz get's injured and they drop 2 or 3 to NYY. Despite their winning ways of late I'm still of the opinion that it's too little too late and there are too many teams to hurdle to make a true playoff run (more realistic is to see if they finish above .500)...
With that said here's the catch 22, the one player that could keep the winning ways going gets hurts (Buch) and if the Sox muddle at about 6/7 games out as we near the end of the month they'll be planning toward next year yet w/out a potential huge trade chip (Buch) because he's hurt...Although I doubt they'd trade him, I was of the opinion that a team might overpay for him (if he could keep to the dominant Buchholz) in which case they'd owe it to the organization to listen...all out the window if he doesn't come back healthy and in time to prove his health...Seriously, I told a co-worker about a week prior to the injury that we've seen the inconsistent Buchholz, and then the dominant Buchholz, and were still waiting for the injured Buchholz and now he's here...Like clockwork...
Then losing 2 of 3 to NYY was the worse case scenario to me...A sweep either way would have given some clear direction for the Sox FO...winning 2 of 3 would have put them 4.5 games out and a little bit more hope for contention (or the illusion of serious contention) which I think gives the FO some conviction...Now, again just in my opinion, the FO knows the hurdle is too big but can't punt the season yet and thus leaves us in a little "no man's land" for the time being despite this team not being a serious playoff/WS contender...
I like the rumors of looking for cost controlled good young pitching ...can't go wrong there...well, let me caveat that by emphasizing "good" and "young"...it's a kind of safe haven approach to the deadline...just that I'd be more willing to give up non helpful 2015 and beyond MLB pieces than i think the FO will in this "no man's land" which i think is where it really hurts us...again, just my opinion...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 13, 2015 16:41:05 GMT -5
You hit the nail on the head re: Buchholz.
It's like a cycle that cannot be broken.
Buchholz does something that totally wows you. You get visions of Cy Young Awards dancing in your head.
Then he breaks down and gets hurt. Now you're thinking, I can't wait until he gets back.
He comes back and struggles mightily to the point he doesn't resemble a major league pitcher. Now you wish you could get rid of him as you have absolutely had it with him.
Then...just as you're totally ready to give up on him, he starts pitching like a Cy Young again....until he inevitably gets hurt.
Glad that's $13 million and not $20 million per year, they're spending on him.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 13, 2015 22:55:58 GMT -5
Sox "to do list" for the back half of the season:
First, fix porcello. Really need him to step it up.
Second, trade for new bullpen arms. Both lefties and righties.
Three, send Napoli on a season long cruise to the dl or Cuba.
The sox have come a long way as a team since April. We can now actually hit with risp and if the other team scores first, we don't throw in the towel anymore. The young guys have stepped it up beyond expectations and some veterans are defrosting. We get Pedroia back, not sure if that is good or bad. But all in all I remain optimistic that we are on the right track.
A tweak here or there as listed above and we should be good to go.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 13, 2015 23:46:53 GMT -5
the one player that could keep the winning ways going gets hurts (Buch) Yeah it's really amazing how Buchholz inspires the offense to score more runs just by going out to the mound every 5 days.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 14, 2015 9:21:40 GMT -5
What's frustrating is that this has barely changed since the season started.
1) Trade for two quality set-up relievers (good enough to bump Ogando and Layne to lesser roles), one RH and one LH. No rentals; ideally, guys with two years left before FA. DFA Breslow, and send Ross back to become a AAA shuttle guy. Barnes, BTW, should be starting or Pawtucket.
2) Start transitioning Hanley to 1B. Adrian Gonzalez told Nick Carfardo in today's Globe that that would have been a better destination to begin with.
3) Entertain the thought of Craig replacing Napoli as Ortiz's platoon partner.
4) You're fine in the OF corners with De Aza, Victorino, Nava, and Holt, with Bradley and Castillo in AAA. You'll want to determine whether either of the latter two deserve an MLB job starting in August, of course.
5) Buchholz's injury has one upside, in that you can get a look at Johnson and more of a look at Wright. At the deadline, you decide whether you need to trade for a SP based on what they've done, Buchholz's health, how Owens is doing, and (perhaps most importantly) how close you are in the standings. Again, no rentals.
6) At some point soon (before Buchholz returns) you're almost certainly going to want Kelly in the MLB pen over Masterson. For the time being, it won't hurt to take a look at Masterson in relief, in low-leverage situations. But you also want to start using Kelly in Pawtucket in his intended MLB role: long man who doubles as a medium-leverage short relief option.
You end up, BTW, with one of these three combos for 5th starter / long man: Wright / Kelly, Johnson / Wright, Johnson / Kelly.
7) Explore the possibility of trading for a better backup catcher than Leon. Swihart, when he comes off the DL, should go back to Pawtucket and play every day, rather than being Hanigan's backup. You don't learn more watching MLB players play than you do by playing in AAA.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 14, 2015 9:38:00 GMT -5
What's frustrating is that this has barely changed since the season started. 3) Entertain the thought of Craig replacing Napoli as Ortiz's platoon partner. 6) At some point soon (before Buchholz returns) you're almost certainly going to want Kelly in the MLB pen over Masterson. For the time being, it won't hurt to take a look at Masterson in relief, in low-leverage situations. But you also want to start using Kelly in Pawtucket in his intended MLB role: long man who doubles as a medium-leverage short relief option. You end up, BTW, with one of these three combos for 5th starter / long man: Wright / Kelly, Johnson / Wright, Johnson / Kelly. I have to say I don't see much point in giving Craig a shot- he's hitting .260 with virtually no power in AAA, at least Napoli still has some pop and went on a brief tear earlier this year. And with Kelly, that seems like a bit of a waste of the arm: I feel pretty sure that he could, at worst, be a high leverage reliever given that he'd probably sit 99 and up in short stints. I think that's his role if they're competing, and if not, let him keep starting for now, might as well see if he can work out his issues given the talent he has
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 14, 2015 9:42:11 GMT -5
Unless Kelly can find some fastball command in a relief roll that he can't as a starter, I'm not sure he's the guy you want coming out of the bullpen. Unless you really miss Kyle Farnsworth's bad years.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 14, 2015 10:02:09 GMT -5
3) Entertain the thought of Craig replacing Napoli as Ortiz's platoon partner. No way - maybe in September when we're completely 100% eliminated. Also, weren't you the guy who didn't consider Henry Owens an option because of 40-man roster considerations? How does Craig fit into those considerations? I think Farrell may be even less capable of implementing this role than he is of implementing a strict platoon. You saw it with Wright - trust him to start one day, the next day he is the "long man" and is hence immediately relegated to pitching only the lowest of low-leverage innings (except in the case of bonus baseball).
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Post by okin15 on Jul 14, 2015 11:16:29 GMT -5
It's too bad they can't get a bat like a Yeonis Cespedes or... oh wait. Obviously hind sight, but Cespedes is so much better than Craig or Napoli this year, and inclusive of fielding, is probably better than Hanley has been (though I'm confident Hanley will improve dramatically over time).
I do think the Sox need a RHH to platoon with Ortiz, Nava, De Aza and Shaw. And I don't believe that Napoli or Craig are it.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 14, 2015 11:40:34 GMT -5
What's frustrating is that this has barely changed since the season started. 3) Entertain the thought of Craig replacing Napoli as Ortiz's platoon partner. 6) At some point soon (before Buchholz returns) you're almost certainly going to want Kelly in the MLB pen over Masterson. For the time being, it won't hurt to take a look at Masterson in relief, in low-leverage situations. But you also want to start using Kelly in Pawtucket in his intended MLB role: long man who doubles as a medium-leverage short relief option. You end up, BTW, with one of these three combos for 5th starter / long man: Wright / Kelly, Johnson / Wright, Johnson / Kelly. I have to say I don't see much point in giving Craig a shot- he's hitting .260 with virtually no power in AAA, at least Napoli still has some pop and went on a brief tear earlier this year. And with Kelly, that seems like a bit of a waste of the arm: I feel pretty sure that he could, at worst, be a high leverage reliever given that he'd probably sit 99 and up in short stints. I think that's his role if they're competing, and if not, let him keep starting for now, might as well see if he can work out his issues given the talent he has Craig is killing LHP at AAA, but now that I check, Napoli is actually hitting them quite well in MLB (.214 / .337 / .471), so indeed that's something you'd check out only if you were sellers and had managed to get something for Napoli. You'll probably want a RH bat to platoon with Ortiz next year, so we may well want to find out if Craig could be that guy. Re Kelly, I should have reversed the two elements of his role. The mid-leverage reliever who doubles as a guy who can go 3 IP if needed, maybe even 4, has actually been the way they've filled the last spot on the pen in most recent years (e.g., Workman), and that's actually how I envision him being used. I would not count on him being better than Ogando in the short role; if he is, that's gravy.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 14, 2015 14:33:36 GMT -5
Craig since the start of June: .250/.361/.325. Craig vs. AAA RHP: .242/.379/.295
I'm all set there.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 14, 2015 15:27:31 GMT -5
It is hard to fathom how bad Craig is after being so good. While that kind of drop-off is not unprecedented it certainly is rare for players of his age. I still don't fault the Sox for taking a chance on him. He's a lucky guy that he has that contract.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 14, 2015 15:42:16 GMT -5
It is hard to fathom how bad Craig is after being so good. While that kind of drop-off is not unprecedented it certainly is rare for players of his age. I still don't fault the Sox for taking a chance on him. He's a lucky guy that he has that contract. Some team is actually lucky he didn't hit free agency earlier and end up with a Pablo Sandoval contract.
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Post by okin15 on Jul 14, 2015 17:11:45 GMT -5
Craig since the start of June: .250/.361/.325. Craig vs. AAA RHP: .242/.379/.295 I'm all set there. Yeah, but you would use him vs LHP. Vs AAA LHP, he's batting .367/.400/.551/.951 albeit in only 50 plate appearances.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 17, 2015 7:49:37 GMT -5
Looking forward to 2016, the infield has Pedroia, Bogaerts, and Sandoval; Vazquez and Hanigan are the catchers; Ortiz is the DH, and Betts is in CF or RF. And your backup MI can double as a starting corner OF.
That leaves 5 position player roles that are ostensibly up in the air. But two of those, I believe, are no-brainers. Hanley has to be the 1B, and JBJ has to be given a shot in the OF, based on what he's done in AAA and his defense.
That leaves three roster spots. Each has an internal option which may not be up to snuff.
1. They need a LH hitting corner OF who can start if Bradley washes out, and ideally challenge Holt for a starting job. Can Nava still be that guy? It's unclear, and if he can't, they need to get someone.
2. They need a RH platoon partner for that guy. I think it's likely that Rusney Castillo would be OK in that role, but it's possible that he could benefit from some more AAA time. In which case, they need to get someone here, as well.
3. And they need a RH hitting 1B to platoon with Papi (with Hanley moving to DH). In theory, Craig could be that guy, but it doesn't seem likely that he'd be good at the job.
Of course, as soon as it seems we're out of it this year (and maybe before), you want to start getting answers to all of these things -- the three possible vacancies and the two experiments you're pretty much committed to. Note that if both Castillo and Bradley are looking unattractive as first-division starters come winter, then Jason Heyward becomes a very viable option as a super version of #1. (Whereas if Bradley or Castillo is looking like a good starter, then the marginal upgrade of Heyward over Holt, and then hopefully Margot, is very likely not worth the cost.)
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