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Post by jmei on Jul 19, 2015 13:32:49 GMT -5
I don't really see the point of moving Sandoval to 1B, at least in 2016. Holt doesn't really have the arm for 3B, and I honestly think Sandoval/3B and Holt/1B might be a better defensive alignment than the other way around. There aren't really any other internal options at 3B, and the free agent crop at 3B is pretty bad (the best options are Juan Uribe, David Freese, and Aramis Ramirez). Sandoval is not as bad defensively as he's shown so far, and if he's even close to league-average there going forward, they really shouldn't consider moving him to 1B.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 19, 2015 14:00:00 GMT -5
I agree with jmei on Sandoval. He and I have both been arguing for a while that Sandoval is not a bad defender at 3B although he sometimes seems to be trying to prove us wrong. He is better than anyone else the Sox have, or are likely to be able to get in trade. Devers and Moncada seem to be the most likely in-house candidates to replace Sandoval, but that's a couple years from now unless one pulls a Mookie Betts.
Holt is OK at first, certainly better than Napoli has been, but he can't be there permanently unless some of the other players start showing more power. It has to come from somewhere. I think Holt would have the greatest value to a team in need of a real solid 2B. Who has that need? I don't know. Otherwise, he probably would not return value equal to what he has to the Sox now.
I would rather see Shaw given an extensive tryout at first. He has shown the ability to learn and improve as he has come up through the system and he should be given the chance. After him the best in-house candidate right now seems to be the other Travis, but he probably is at least a year away.
I'd like to see Owens get a start for the Sox before the deadline. I can't see them going with four LH starters but if both Johnson and Owens show they belong in the majors, the Sox will have the chips to pull of a big trade or two without completely depleting the minors.
However, as quiet as the rumor mill has been - unusually quiet - I suspect we're going to be surprised by whatever the Sox do. Most of what I read is one writer quoting another. With such a balance of competition this season for the post-season, there may not be a lot of trades - or there will be a blockbuster that upsets the balance and then some others will occur.
It would be silly for the Sox to trade for Cueto unless they could get him extended as part of the deal, something that almost never happens.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 19, 2015 14:46:52 GMT -5
Sandoval to 3rd in 2016 is silly, but 2017 and beyond? It could make some sense.
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Post by basbal24 on Jul 19, 2015 15:00:57 GMT -5
Sox scout was @ phillies game today -saw hamels pitch not well & went home
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Post by larrycook on Jul 19, 2015 15:10:34 GMT -5
I'd like to see Owens get a start for the Sox before the deadline. I can't see them going with four LH starters but if both Johnson and Owens show they belong in the majors, the Sox will have the chips to pull of a big trade or two without completely depleting the minors. . I also would like to Owens get a shot in boston.the control issues he had earlier in the season appear to be figured out. He averages almost a strike out an inning and he is giving up less than a hit per inning pitched. The curveball is not quite baked, but the change up is a wipe out pitch.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 19, 2015 15:25:39 GMT -5
I'm so tired of hearing about Hamels. He's a pretty good pitcher, but not worth all the bandwidth that's been spent talking about him.
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Post by buffs4444 on Jul 19, 2015 15:28:20 GMT -5
Hamels makes sense either way if the acquisition cost is reasonable. Everyone else wait for the offseason and prepare to overspend then.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2015 15:29:15 GMT -5
Sandoval to 3rd in 2016 is silly, but 2017 and beyond? It could make some sense. He'd have to hit enough to be a first baseman. Given the way his mediocre offensive stats have been trending, what would you expect in 2017? Honestly, by 2017 I think we'll be anxiously waiting for the end of his contract to arrive and counting the days until Moncada is converted and ready for 3b.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 19, 2015 15:36:11 GMT -5
Sandoval to 3rd in 2016 is silly, but 2017 and beyond? It could make some sense. He'd have to hit enough to be a first baseman. Given the way his mediocre offensive stats have been trending, what would you expect in 2017? Honestly, by 2017 I think we'll be anxiously waiting for the end of his contract to arrive and counting the days until Moncada is converted and ready for 3b. I already address this point, along with how it's a completely outdated way of thinking about positions.
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Post by jmei on Jul 19, 2015 15:37:41 GMT -5
Sandoval to 3rd in 2016 is silly, but 2017 and beyond? It could make some sense. The same logic applies. It only makes sense if his defense significantly declines at 3B and the Red Sox have a strong replacement candidate. Maybe that's in 2017-18, maybe it's not, but either way, it's far too early to start thinking about now.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2015 15:44:33 GMT -5
Considering how much of a pitcher's league it is these days, the notion that he's "not good enough offensively for first base" is an outdated way of thinking about things. Panda still moves well for his size, so there's some merit to the thought that he could become a very good defensive first baseman. If that's the case, and he's still a capable hitter, then the move could make some sense down the line. Why is he going to stop misplaying ground balls at 1B like he has been at 3B? The arm isn't the problem. I have zero interest in moving him to first. And I'd really like to see them dump him because I'm not going to enjoy watching him flail at balls over his head or balls in the dirt or balls 2 feet outside when he's over 30. I just can't stand those kind of hitters. I fully expect him to crater offensively pretty early because of that and wouldn't be surprised to see him retire after this contract is over.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2015 15:47:44 GMT -5
If they decide to sell, I'd probably see what they can get for Hanigan and just look towards 2016 with Vazquez and Swihart. Not sure if any teams are missing a catcher, but an injury for a playoff team sure could make him valuable.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 19, 2015 15:56:47 GMT -5
If they decide to sell, I'd probably see what they can get for Hanigan and just look towards 2016 with Vazquez and Swihart. Not sure if any teams are missing a catcher, but an injury for a playoff team sure could make him valuable. I think they have to wait on trading Swihart or Hanigan. I know Tommy John is common and most bounce back just fine. It's less common for catchers, and enough of a chance Vazquez isn't the same guy to wait. Hanigan is very good and signed at a reasonable salary.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 19, 2015 16:11:57 GMT -5
Hamels makes sense either way if the acquisition cost is reasonable. Everyone else wait for the offseason and prepare to overspend then. We'd have to pay Hamels 23m over 3 years and pick up his option. I think for 25m. And, give up prospects. Why not try to sign Cueto? Probably won't even cost a first given our record. Sign Cueto as a free agent and trade for Aroldis Chapman. Cincy will need starting help when they lose Cueto. Owens and Kelly for Chapman? You can prob deal Buchholz if that happens and he finishes the season.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2015 16:16:10 GMT -5
Hamels makes sense either way if the acquisition cost is reasonable. Everyone else wait for the offseason and prepare to overspend then. We'd have to pay Hamels 23m over 3 years and pick up his option. I think for 25m. And, give up prospects. Why not try to sign Cueto? Probably won't even cost a first given our record. Sign Cueto as a free agent and trade for Aroldis Chapman. Cincy will need starting help when they lose Cueto. Owens and Kelly for Chapman? You can prob deal Buchholz if that happens and he finishes the season. Cueto likely won't cost a draft pick because he's likely to be traded soon, so anybody signing him next season wouldn't have to forfeit a draft pick of any kind.
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Post by arzjake on Jul 19, 2015 19:26:01 GMT -5
Sox are not going to deal for Cueto. I don't see it. Plus, wasn't Cueto shut down awhile back with an arm ailment?
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 19, 2015 19:45:06 GMT -5
I'm a little leery of Cueto because of that arm issue. Chapman would be great to get.
I think the Sox are going to have four pretty good LH starters. At least one almost has to be traded, but until they all have pitched for the Sox it is impossible to choose one to trade.
Also, re Sandoval, he is not trending down. The last I looked, which during the break, he was hitting just about the same as he did last year. He had a terrible first half last year and did much better in the second half. So the slight decline last year from previous years is deceptive. He has been one of the most consistent hitters on the Sox. They would have had a no hitter pitched against them last night if it had not been for him.
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Post by kman22 on Jul 19, 2015 21:34:08 GMT -5
I'm a little leery of Cueto because of that arm issue. Chapman would be great to get. I think the Sox are going to have four pretty good LH starters. At least one almost has to be traded, but until they all have pitched for the Sox it is impossible to choose one to trade. Also, re Sandoval, he is not trending down. The last I looked, which during the break, he was hitting just about the same as he did last year. He had a terrible first half last year and did much better in the second half. So the slight decline last year from previous years is deceptive. He has been one of the most consistent hitters on the Sox. They would have had a no hitter pitched against them last night if it had not been for him. It also seems like batting LH exclusively has been a great decision.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 20, 2015 6:51:49 GMT -5
I'm a little leery of Cueto because of that arm issue. Chapman would be great to get. I think the Sox are going to have four pretty good LH starters. At least one almost has to be traded, but until they all have pitched for the Sox it is impossible to choose one to trade. Also, re Sandoval, he is not trending down. The last I looked, which during the break, he was hitting just about the same as he did last year. He had a terrible first half last year and did much better in the second half. So the slight decline last year from previous years is deceptive. He has been one of the most consistent hitters on the Sox. They would have had a no hitter pitched against them last night if it had not been for him. Cueto's a risk for sure. I wouldn't blame the front office for passing. But, that means we probably aren't going to compete for a couple of years. Unless, you trade some good prospects like Swihart, Margot and Owens for younger, established pitching. It's either pony up for vets or trade. We simply don't have the pitching to compete.
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Post by raftsox on Jul 20, 2015 8:07:17 GMT -5
If they decide to sell, I'd probably see what they can get for Hanigan and just look towards 2016 with Vazquez and Swihart. Not sure if any teams are missing a catcher, but an injury for a playoff team sure could make him valuable. I completely disagree with this. I think it's important to have a catcher who handles the staff well. Swihart isn't there yet, and I would be surprised if Vasquez was good at it his first season. I know 'Tek wasn't a great defensive catcher, but I think he was an amazing game caller. This year's poor pitching results has made me miss a good game calling catcher. (Maybe that isn't the only reason behind the bad pitching, but I think it's part of it.)
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 20, 2015 8:38:36 GMT -5
Vazquez has always gotten rave reviews for every part of his defensive game, including game calling.
However, I don't think Hanigan is worth enough in trade to move him. The reliever we would net for him wouldn't be as important as he has been, and Vazquez has some question marks for next year given his injury.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 20, 2015 8:43:25 GMT -5
Sandoval to 3rd in 2016 is silly, but 2017 and beyond? It could make some sense. The same logic applies. It only makes sense if his defense significantly declines at 3B and the Red Sox have a strong replacement candidate. Maybe that's in 2017-18, maybe it's not, but either way, it's far too early to start thinking about now. I think we all understand that his moving off 3rd is predicated on his defense declining. And I really don't think it's too early to start talking about something that's potentially a year and a half away. That'd eliminate a good chunk of message board discussion.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 20, 2015 10:25:18 GMT -5
This team has to identify a pitcher . I think they can not afford another Porcello show so they have to go after like a Urias from the Dodgers and let's say the Dodgers really want Devers something like that. This won't happen but this is what they have to do .that will offset the money being drained on Porcello. I afraid we make a deal for example for Hamels give up two really good kids and now we have 40% of our rotation making over 40 million for 4 years. Do you understand Hamels has to be the man . They have to be 100% on him.
How cool would it be if Johnson pans out and in two weeks they give Owens a shot and he pans out in Boston. That would be a good feeling. Things would change fast . How worst could it be? Masterson is all done. Who knows about Buch. Coming back sooner or later. Time to see what some of these kids can do.
I like. To move Napoli and De Arza and see what Shaw and JBJ can do or maybe give Craig a shot or Castillo . I mean these guys are sitting there and need to be reevaluated . The veterans failed this team pretty much.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 20, 2015 11:15:23 GMT -5
This team has to identify a pitcher . I think they can not afford another Porcello show so they have to go after like a Urias from the Dodgers and let's say the Dodgers really want Devers something like that. This won't happen but this is what they have to do .that will offset the money being drained on Porcello. I afraid we make a deal for example for Hamels give up two really good kids and now we have 40% of our rotation making over 40 million for 4 years. Do you understand Hamels has to be the man . They have to be 100% on him. How cool would it be if Johnson pans out and in two weeks they give Owens a shot and he pans out in Boston. That would be a good feeling. Things would change fast . How worst could it be? Masterson is all done. Who knows about Buch. Coming back sooner or later. Time to see what some of these kids can do. I like. To move Napoli and De Arza and see what Shaw and JBJ can do or maybe give Craig a shot or Castillo . I mean these guys are sitting there and need to be reevaluated . The veterans failed this team pretty much. This . . . does . . . not . . . compute . . . .
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 20, 2015 11:15:46 GMT -5
The Dodgers wouldn't trade Urias for Betts.
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