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2015 New England Patriots Thread
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Post by geostorm on Nov 22, 2015 8:33:25 GMT -5
On this week's version of Mike Reiss' weekly column on what's going on w/ NE and rest of NFL - espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4787734/patriots-defense-takes-multiple-hits-personnel-wise-with-lingering-illness - Item 4, specifically, revisits why I was particularly pissed off at Goddell/Vincent/NFL not just about the 1st round pick, but especially the 4th rounder the NFL dinged NE on, for the next draft, coming out of their sham of an investigation - "4. ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter’s report that teams will likely be able to trade compensatory draft picks in 2016 might be more significant to the Patriots than any other team. The Patriots are expecting three to four compensatory picks as a result of losing Darrelle Revis, Vince Wilfork, Shane Vereen and Akeem Ayers in free agency, and they are also without a first-round pick from the NFL’s Deflategate punishment, so it adds some pressure to what they can do with their middle- and late-round picks. Also consider that in 16 years with the Patriots, Bill Belichick has swung 55 draft-day trades, which reflects how he likes to move around the board. The only year in which he didn’t make a draft-day trade was 2004." Then, as now, my thought was something similar to "this", on why they eventually decided to also ding the 4th rounder, which seemed, by all accounts, esp inexplicable - Goodell to Vincent - "Troy...we need to have something we can point to, if things don't break our way, especailly if this gets to court, with a worst case scenario of our ruling being overturned, so we're taking their 1st rounder, next draft...put that in the release"... Vincent to Goodell - "Understood...btw, Roger, while that will hurt, it may be somewhat mitigated by the fact they've 3-4 comp picks likely in play, including, based on our preliminary analysis, our projections of them receiving a 3rd rounder..."... Goodell to Vincent - "Good point...let's take their 4th rounder, too." I could be off, but other than something similar to that, I've had a hard time understanding how they came up with "and a 4th rounder". |
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Post by geostorm on Nov 22, 2015 8:40:20 GMT -5
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Post by ray88h66 on Nov 22, 2015 13:43:11 GMT -5
Please pardon my intrusion on the Pats thread. I don't want to start a new one just to say it was really cool to see football back at Fenway last night.
I saw the Boston Pats play there in the 60's, went to a hockey game there a few years back ,and of course a couple of hundred Sox games. Haven't seen a soccer game there yet. Love the way Fenway is getting more use.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Nov 23, 2015 18:53:31 GMT -5
Trivia Note: Going into tonight's game, Tom Brady and Joe Flacco have the same number of career regular season losses. If the Patriots win tonight, Joe Flacco will have to go 95-0 to tie Tom Brady. That's 1 win shy of 6 undefeated seasons.
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Post by mgoetze on Nov 23, 2015 23:51:16 GMT -5
Looks like the BC Lions season has come to an end. Austin Collie caught 43 passes for 439 yards and 7 touchdowns, and also threw a 21-yard TD pass himself. Time to give him a call?
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 24, 2015 1:12:30 GMT -5
crack officiating tonight, good job NFL.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 24, 2015 9:05:18 GMT -5
Can you imagine if the "inadvertent whistle" went in the Pats favor? It would have been like deflategate. That was the worst thing I've ever seen in the NFL.
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Post by jmei on Nov 24, 2015 9:32:42 GMT -5
It did kind of go in their favor-- the whistle was blown while the ball was still in the air, so it should have been a do-over rather than a completed pass. (Of course, had the whistle not been blown, it might have gone for a big play, but hard to say for sure-- the CB slowed up once the whistle was blown.)
Also, the persecution complex among Patriots fans is just the worst. For instance, the last play of the game should have been out of bounds and given the Bills a hail mary shot. Guess what-- nobody but a few hardcore Bills fans care.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Nov 24, 2015 9:39:08 GMT -5
Oh come on jmei. It isn't hard to say at all that it would have been a big play. It may not have been a touchdown, but he certainly would have gotten them into field goal range. It didn't come close to going in their favor.
Now the make up call went in their favor, but it was still an obvious net negative for the Patriots.
And while the last play of the game was a bad call, the odds that it made any difference at all are very close to zero.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 24, 2015 10:03:42 GMT -5
That 15 yarder on Rex on the whistle play remind me of NBA refs when they call an egregious foul that they know that totally didn't happen so on the next possession they call 3 seconds on defense.
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Post by jmei on Nov 24, 2015 10:14:26 GMT -5
The initial inadvertent whistle definitely went against them, but the refs giving them the catch and tacking on the penalty on Rex was a blatant attempt at a makeup call. Comparing where the ball ended up to where it would have ended up without the whistle, I don't think they lost that much-- maybe 10 or so yards? Amendola might have scored where he caught the ball, but with one guy ahead of him and one (faster) guy behind him, I don't think he does so on average.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 24, 2015 10:17:12 GMT -5
It did kind of go in their favor-- the whistle was blown while the ball was still in the air, so it should have been a do-over rather than a completed pass. (Of course, had the whistle not been blown, it might have gone for a big play, but hard to say for sure-- the CB slowed up once the whistle was blown.) Also, the persecution complex among Patriots fans is just the worst. For instance, the last play of the game should have been out of bounds and given the Bills a hail mary shot. Guess what-- nobody but a few hardcore Bills fans care. That's like saying "well at least they gave you less than the minimum sentence on that crime you didn't commit." Gee thanks. I have never once seen such a botched call ever in an NFL game. |
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Post by chavopepe2 on Nov 24, 2015 10:27:21 GMT -5
The initial inadvertent whistle definitely went against them, but the refs giving them the catch and tacking on the penalty on Rex was a blatant attempt at a makeup call. Comparing where the ball ended up to where it would have ended up without the whistle, I don't think they lost that much-- maybe 10 or so yards? Amendola might have scored where he caught the ball, but with one guy ahead of him and one (faster) guy behind him, I don't think he does so on average. There is no doubt that it was a makeup call, but overall the play cost them anywhere from 10 yards to a TD. And even if it only cost them 10 yards, that still moves Gostkowski's field goal attempt inside 50 yards, so its hard to argue that play didn't cost them points. Not to mention the long FG attempt gave Buffalo a short field. Amendola's momentum was going down field and the defender was going towards the sideline. He wouldn't have caught him for a while. And while there was one more defender down field, there was also a Patriot who may have blocked him. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 24, 2015 10:59:51 GMT -5
I have never once seen such a botched call ever in an NFL game. You saw a worse call later in the same game. That call that Watkins "gave himself up in the field of play" to not give the Bills a chance at a hail mary was somehow even more moronic. |
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Post by jmei on Nov 24, 2015 11:16:31 GMT -5
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Post by chavopepe2 on Nov 24, 2015 11:27:33 GMT -5
And in aggregate it was one single play that was poorly handled by the officials the cost the Patriots points. Also, I think part of the reason the official blew the whistle was that he was frazzled by Rex Ryan standing right in front of him on a play coming his way, so I have no sympathy for the Bills on that. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2015 11:31:15 GMT -5
I have never once seen such a botched call ever in an NFL game. You saw a worse call later in the same game. That call that Watkins "gave himself up in the field of play" to not give the Bills a chance at a hail mary was somehow even more moronic. I thought so too but I'm 95% sure there is a rule that an offensive player cannot go backwards to run out of bounds and that was the call there. Which would be the correct one. Add: Well he can but clock won't stop |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 24, 2015 11:33:26 GMT -5
We can all agree, at the least, that the referees looked horribly overmatched and lacked competence overall, yes?
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Post by mgoetze on Nov 24, 2015 11:38:18 GMT -5
You can clearly see on the video that Rex Ryan is where he's not supposed to be. Even if that doesn't get called consistently, I don't think the Bills have a right to be upset about that one. (OTs not lining up exactly at the line of scrimmage also gets called quite rarely and it happened twice in this game.) But ruling that Amendola had already caught the ball when the whistle was blown seemed like a clear make-up call.
And Watkins was going out of bounds sideways, not backwards.
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Post by mgoetze on Nov 24, 2015 11:40:00 GMT -5
We can all agree, at the least, that the referees looked horribly overmatched and lacked competence overall, yes? Which is pretty surprising. I remember two years ago Peter King did an inside look at what it's like to be a referee series and the crew the NFL gave him access to was Steratore's. I thought at the time "ah, that makes total sense, because that's one of the best crews there is." How quickly things change... |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2015 12:07:52 GMT -5
Refs were completely atrocious this game... And have been a lot this year.
The tackles not lining up on the line of scrimmage has been called a lot this year (comparatively speaking) as it was a point of emphasis this year. It was getting ridiculous how far back they'd lineup on passing downs.
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Post by jmei on Nov 24, 2015 17:51:09 GMT -5
You saw a worse call later in the same game. That call that Watkins "gave himself up in the field of play" to not give the Bills a chance at a hail mary was somehow even more moronic. I thought so too but I'm 95% sure there is a rule that an offensive player cannot go backwards to run out of bounds and that was the call there. Which would be the correct one. Add: Well he can but clock won't stop Only in college, but not the NFL: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/11/24/monday-night-football-officials/Gkecqt95j5tpE30ntKHaJM/story.html |
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Post by mgoetze on Nov 24, 2015 19:05:49 GMT -5
Getting back to actual football, can anyone explain to me why Patrick Chung was in coverage so much in this game? It looked to me like he was getting exposed quite badly.
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Post by rangoon82 on Nov 24, 2015 19:29:51 GMT -5
Getting back to actual football, can anyone explain to me why Patrick Chung was in coverage so much in this game? It looked to me like he was getting exposed quite badly. I think I read in a Reiss article pats only dressed 3 corners, and Melvin only saw 1 snap. Tavon Wilson was the nickel corner, so Chung prob drew coverage when they needed bodies. |
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Post by jmei on Nov 24, 2015 20:51:47 GMT -5
Getting back to actual football, can anyone explain to me why Patrick Chung was in coverage so much in this game? It looked to me like he was getting exposed quite badly. He was their slot corner in his rookie year, so it's not a completely new assignment. Chung does have pretty good change of direction skills, but, as was made abundantly clear, he lacks deep speed and his technique is not great. Still, it's not unreasonable to think that he's better than Melvin, at least in the right matchup. |
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