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Post by rangoon82 on Jan 24, 2016 21:37:41 GMT -5
Defense really came to play today. Unfortunately Brady was under siege all game though thanks to an ineffective OLine and the run game was non-existent. IMO the top areas that need help in the offseason are RB, OL, and WR. Solder coming back should help OL at least.
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Post by rangoon82 on Jan 25, 2016 15:38:55 GMT -5
Good Reiss article on where the Patriots stand in the upcoming draft. Despite being stripped of their first they should have a lot of picks thanks to compensation for free agents. Additionally they have no major free agents this year so if Tom Brady can continue to elude father time (and Roger Goodell) the Pats should be right back in the playoff mix next year.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 25, 2016 16:33:48 GMT -5
Offseason will likely entail:
1. Cutting/Re-structuring the likes of Mayo/Chandler/Amendola/Cannon/LaFell (Miguel at PatsCap has all the numbers). 2. Extending some from the likes of Collins/Hightower/Jones/Butler/Ryan/Sheard (Miguel has some examples of what these might look like given comparable players' contracts 3. Improve the Backup OT 4. Upgrade on Lafell
Agree with what I'm reading (including Miguel) that leans towards Chandler Jones as being the least likely of Hightower/Collins/He/Sheard.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 25, 2016 16:42:40 GMT -5
They should really get someone else in the Dion Lewis mold. Darren Sproles would be pretty awesome if they could trade for him since Philly is probably close to rebuilding. Not sure what Danny Woodhead's status is.
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Post by ramireja on Jan 25, 2016 17:35:17 GMT -5
They should really get someone else in the Dion Lewis mold. Darren Sproles would be pretty awesome if they could trade for him since Philly is probably close to rebuilding. Not sure what Danny Woodhead's status is. You mean in addition to....Dion Lewis? Isn't he supposed to be healthy and rostered for next season?
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 25, 2016 18:32:27 GMT -5
They should really get someone else in the Dion Lewis mold. Darren Sproles would be pretty awesome if they could trade for him since Philly is probably close to rebuilding. Not sure what Danny Woodhead's status is. You mean in addition to....Dion Lewis? Isn't he supposed to be healthy and rostered for next season? Yes, in addition.
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Post by jmei on Jan 25, 2016 19:16:58 GMT -5
I'm less concerned about third-down back (where they have Lewis and White already) and more concerned about first/second-down running back (Blount is a free agent and getting older and there aren't any internal options), cornerback (Coleman and Roberts looks interesting, but they need depth) and wide receiver.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jan 25, 2016 20:32:10 GMT -5
I'm less concerned about third-down back (where they have Lewis and White already) and more concerned about first/second-down running back (Blount is a free agent and getting older and there aren't any internal options), cornerback (Coleman and Roberts looks interesting, but they need depth) and wide receiver. Agreed. Priority list for me is: - Tackle depth - CB depth - WR - Power back
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Post by jmei on Jan 25, 2016 20:33:31 GMT -5
Wow-- the Patriots and offensive line coach Dave DeGuglielmo have reportedly "parted ways."
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 25, 2016 22:36:19 GMT -5
Should have kicked a FG on that 4th and 6, it was quite possibly the worst decision in Bill's career. nyt4thdownbot.com/play/201601240071310I'm sure even Belichick, incredible as he is, has made worse decisions than that.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 26, 2016 9:00:37 GMT -5
With Scott Chandler being such a bust, I think they'll look for a TE as well. Williams seems more of a blocker and they may want to try and "recreate" the 2-TE dominance they used to have (though I doubt, we'll ever see a tandem like that again . . . largely bc it may be a while before we see a TE like Gronk, let alone be able to pair him with a talent like Hernandez).
If I had to make a shocking prediction, it would be a trade of Chandler Jones this offseason. Not that moving on from him is that much of a surprise, but making a move THIS offseason would be. It'd be easier if Flowers had shown anything this year.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jan 26, 2016 13:06:35 GMT -5
Depth at RB and WR are definitely more important, but improving the depth at TE is right up there with OT and CB for me. I'd love to see old friend Benjamin Watson return. I could see the team double dipping at RB and WR through the draft/FA/trades, they need short term and long term help at both positions. I'd like to see them add a more complete running back rather than just a one dimensional power back, but that's not a top priority.
CB depth is a huge need, they were lucky Butler and Ryan stayed healthy all year. Darryl Roberts was generating a lot of buzz last year, hopefully he comes back healthy and picks up where he left off. This defense should be fantastic next year with reasonable health.
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Post by jmei on Jan 26, 2016 13:18:35 GMT -5
This will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't know that OT should be all that high on their to-do list. Yes, their offensive line just got shredded, but I think the blame is just as much on the interior offensive lineman for not giving Brady a clean pocket to step up in as it is on Vollmer/Cannon for not holding up against two of the better edge rushers in the league, especially since the tackles were mostly left on an island all game. It's going to be tough to upgrade on Solder/Vollmer, and even if you want to upgrade on Cannon, you'll probably have to spend real money in free agency or spend a highish draft pick to do so. Given their other needs, I don't know that OT is the place to spend those resources.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 26, 2016 14:27:09 GMT -5
I agree that the interior is too blame but I do have long-term confidence in Mason/Jackson and Kline is a good 3rd guy. Not saying that TJ was a world beater but just to put in the fresh legs of another guard may have helped . . . a bit.
I think more time will help improve that interior whereas I think Cannon, unfortunately, is a lost cause. That's the only reason why I'm leaning towards the ends of the line.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jan 26, 2016 15:01:05 GMT -5
This will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't know that OT should be all that high on their to-do list. Yes, their offensive line just got shredded, but I think the blame is just as much on the interior offensive lineman for not giving Brady a clean pocket to step up in as it is on Vollmer/Cannon for not holding up against two of the better edge rushers in the league, especially since the tackles were mostly left on an island all game. It's going to be tough to upgrade on Solder/Vollmer, and even if you want to upgrade on Cannon, you'll probably have to spend real money in free agency or spend a highish draft pick to do so. Given their other needs, I don't know that OT is the place to spend those resources. I agree in terms of the line play, depending on how the Patriots feel about Kline and Jackson they might be in the market for a starting guard (with Mason a lock to start at the other spot). You can dream on Solder/Vollmer staying healthy and taking enough snaps so that the 3rd OT wouldn't be a big concern for next season. Cannon's salary is real money though, just bringing him back at the current number is a big investment for the 3rd OT spot. I believe Vollmer is entering the final year of his deal and Solder is only signed through 2017, so there's some long term planning to factor in there too. If they walk away from Cannon they'll need to put OT relatively high on the priority list just due to the cost of competent tackles, adding a stopgap veteran would just push the need a year into the future. I don't think they'll enter next offseason with an expiring Vollmer and Cannon while Solder enters the final year of his deal without the possibility of a franchise tag. The RB/WR/CB groups have bigger needs for sure, but upgrading the RB position and CB depth doesn't have to require a major investment. Either this offseason or next offseason the Patriots will have to spend big on the tackle position, even if it's just extending the current options.
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Post by jmei on Jan 26, 2016 15:01:13 GMT -5
I think Cannon is better than you're giving him credit for. He's limited athletically and will always have trouble with speed rushers off the edge, but you can game plan around that (giving him help with a guard or tight end or having the running back chip). Von Miller made him look awful on Sunday, but he does that to a lot of tackles, and Cannon had no problem holding up the week before (albeit against a guy in Dee Ford who is a pretty mediocre DE). Cannon is not a starting-caliber guy, but he's fine enough as your backup swing tackle and his being paid fairly.
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Post by jmei on Jan 26, 2016 15:12:21 GMT -5
It's a fair point about long-term need (at RT in particular), but I still think it's only a significant concern this offseason if they decide Cannon isn't good enough to stick on the roster. If they cut Cannon, then yeah, it becomes a priority, but if they keep him, you have Vollmer signed for one more year and Solder/Cannon signed for two more years, which means you can wait a year before needing to address the position. I see the need, but in my mind it's one you address if someone falls to you in the draft or free agency and not one you necessarily have to proactively address.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 26, 2016 15:29:41 GMT -5
I agree that the interior is too blame but I do have long-term confidence in Mason/Jackson and Kline is a good 3rd guy. Not saying that TJ was a world beater but just to put in the fresh legs of another guard may have helped . . . a bit. I think more time will help improve that interior whereas I think Cannon, unfortunately, is a lost cause. That's the only reason why I'm leaning towards the ends of the line. Cannon may as well have been sitting on the sideline against Denver and they could have played with 10 guys. Von Miller must have hit Brady 10 times in that game. Carolina will do much better. I have to say that was probably one of the most impressive games that Brady ever played, getting hit on just about every play even with 3 or 4 rushing, and zero running game.
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 26, 2016 21:23:57 GMT -5
Cannon may as well have been sitting on the sideline against Denver and they could have played with 10 guys. I suggest you rewatch the Patriots touchdown in the first quarter, where Cannon singlehandedly pushed 2 Broncos defenders into the endzone (1st and goal from the 1½ yard line). Cannon is not a great pass protector by any means but he's not JAG either.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 27, 2016 7:13:38 GMT -5
Cannon may as well have been sitting on the sideline against Denver and they could have played with 10 guys. I suggest you rewatch the Patriots touchdown in the first quarter, where Cannon singlehandedly pushed 2 Broncos defenders into the endzone (1st and goal from the 1½ yard line). Cannon is not a great pass protector by any means but he's not JAG either. It was hard to notice his run blocking because they barely ran and barely got any yards. For the game, PFF rated Cannon a -7.3 and Kline a -6.9. I don't remember seeing scores that low by anyone.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 27, 2016 7:46:23 GMT -5
I'm less concerned about third-down back (where they have Lewis and White already) and more concerned about first/second-down running back (Blount is a free agent and getting older and there aren't any internal options), cornerback (Coleman and Roberts looks interesting, but they need depth) and wide receiver. I'll just point out that the main reason why Lewis was available to the Pats was because he's always hurt. You shouldn't count on him being healthy. I think they need another RB like him, or they need to redo the OL so they can run the ball with a traditional running back. Someone like Blount would have been useless against Denver, but someone like Lewis or Sproles was exactly what they needed in that game.
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Post by jmei on Jan 27, 2016 11:53:11 GMT -5
You would have to invest at least a mid-end pick or real free agent dollars to get a guy better than White, though. I feel about third-down back the same way I do about OT-- if there's a guy you can draft/sign and get great value for or a cheap flier you can take, sure, go ahead. But it's not a position like first/second-down running back or cornerback or wide receiver where I think they need to add players at least reasonably capable of competing for a starting job.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jan 27, 2016 14:48:37 GMT -5
The team is in good shape because they have all of the starters coming back for the most part. So the biggest needs are with depth. And while Cannon might be a solid run blocker, he is an atrocious pass blocker. And that is true from looking at his entire career, not just that one game.
The Patriots showed a willingness to rotate lineman early in the year, so he is fine as a situational type tackle, but finding a better option to step in in case of injury that can pass protect is still priority number one for me.
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 28, 2016 22:47:46 GMT -5
You would have to invest at least a mid-end pick or real free agent dollars to get a guy better than White, though. I feel about third-down back the same way I do about OT Yeah, let's compare third down backs and OTs by AAV: Cannon $4.25m Vereen $4.12m Woodhead $2.75m Which two players would you rather have had playing against the Broncos, Marcus Cannon and James White or Cameron Fleming and Danny Woodhead?
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Post by jmei on Jan 29, 2016 0:52:48 GMT -5
Honestly, Cannon and White.
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