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Post by rangoon82 on Sept 9, 2015 0:04:41 GMT -5
Agree that the OTL article is clickbait. Its a collection of rumors that could probably be made for most other teams. Pats hate is a top seller though.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 9, 2015 8:31:35 GMT -5
Man, Belichick is so far inside the other teams' heads, it's a wonder the Patriots ever lose a game. They hear a click on their phone and probably think Belichick has their phones bugged. He's like a one-man KGB. But, stripping out the nonsense, the article essentially confirms the basic thrust of the Patriots' contention in this ball-deflation thing: it's a witch hunt carried out for political reasons. I've worked in Congress, so I recognize Goodell. I know nothing about his background beyond that he's an NFL lifer, but I know his type: he's a two-bit politician with his finger always in the air to check which way the wind is blowing. He serves a bunch of ego maniacal rich guys, all with their own agenda, and he's just stitching together coalitions of them and deciding which way to go based on that. Goodell says he cares for the "good of the game" or that he will "protect the shield," but he's basically just acting out of what he perceives to be the political center of gravity of the moment among the owners. They like it because he "serves" them, but he's really just serving himself, in the end. There's this Mountain Landis view of Commissioners, that they lead the enterprise in a semi-independent way, but it's not usually true (people like David Stern are the exception). Mostly, Commissioners are just the front men, the guy who shields the reality that this is a monopolistic business based entirely on collusion among the owners. Goodell survives because he plays the role well ... until he doesn't. Then he'll be gone. Personally, I think he overplayed this hand badly, wasting a lot of his political capital on it. He'll make it through this, but his rope is shorter. But, really, as for the facts of the case, it's a joke, always has been. The psi readings were like a junior high science experiment (averaging the readings from two uncalibrated meters? Really? That's your position?). It's never been about the actual deflation of the balls, but instead about a political reality within the NFL ownership. It'd be funny if people didn't seem to care so much about it. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 9, 2015 11:41:33 GMT -5
Agree that the OTL article is clickbait. Its a collection of rumors that could probably be made for most other teams. Pats hate is a top seller though. I can't see how you can think this is clickbait. There is a public relations war going on here. It's between the Patriots and the people of the NFL. What do you expect the NFL to do, just sit there and take it. If the Patrioits(and their fans) want to lambast the NFL (other fans, owners...etc..etc), they are going to get it back in spades. There is a lot of relevance here to how the Patriots conduct their business, and it has it's place in the public domain. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2015 14:35:24 GMT -5
Part of me would laugh if Brady just disappeared and never had another thing to do with the NFL again. I wouldn't blame him.
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Post by rangoon82 on Sept 9, 2015 14:59:27 GMT -5
Agree that the OTL article is clickbait. Its a collection of rumors that could probably be made for most other teams. Pats hate is a top seller though. I can't see how you can think this is clickbait. There is a public relations war going on here. It's between the Patriots and the people of the NFL. What do you expect the NFL to do, just sit there and take it. If the Patrioits(and their fans) want to lambast the NFL (other fans, owners...etc..etc), they are going to get it back in spades. There is a lot of relevance here to how the Patriots conduct their business, and it has it's place in the public domain. offers some perspective. The OTL article is an aggregation of unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources over the past 15 years. You could write a similar article on rumors and dirty laundry of all the other teams. To me it is just feeding the masses the Patriot hate they love, tabloid style. The public doesn't really care when teams like the Browns do something like illegally texting during games because they've had exactly 2 seasons over .500 in the last 20 years. Pats hate sells. |
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Post by texs31 on Sept 9, 2015 15:27:35 GMT -5
Moving on to Football: Stork is out for tomorrow night's game. Could be big as Wendell is likely limited too (not too many practices under his belt since coming off PUP). Does Andrews get the start? Wendell/Andrews combined? Gotta figure this means 1 of the rookie guards will surely get some serious time (Tre' Jackson at RG?)
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Post by jmei on Sept 9, 2015 15:32:50 GMT -5
It's not just unsubstantiated rumors, though. The really damning thing about the article is that it cites multiple former Patriot players, coaches and employees who describe, in detail, the various ways the Patriots cheated or otherwise pushed the boundaries on ethical behavior. I agree that the degree of outrage is overblown (e.g., other teams pull this kind of stuff regularly as well), and I am generally skeptical that the Patriots gained a significant competitive advantage from their actions. But let's not pretend that there is nothing new or meaningful here.
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Post by justen on Sept 9, 2015 15:54:34 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 9, 2015 16:25:44 GMT -5
Part of me would laugh if Brady just disappeared and never had another thing to do with the NFL again. I wouldn't blame him. Honestly, you think this guy...who's had this amount of good fortune in his life.....should be upset because he may be being victimized (we'll never really know). Tom Brady has been as lucky in his life as he has been good. If he can't handle this type of adverse circumstance...well (and I know I will be hated around here for saying this) then he's the biggest prima donna that has ever walked the earth. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2015 17:33:28 GMT -5
Part of me would laugh if Brady just disappeared and never had another thing to do with the NFL again. I wouldn't blame him. Honestly, you think this guy...who's had this amount of good fortune in his life.....should be upset because he may be being victimized (we'll never really know). Tom Brady has been as lucky in his life as he has been good. If he can't handle this type of adverse circumstance...well (and I know I will be hated around here for saying this) then he's the biggest prima donna that has ever walked the earth. I have no doubt he can handle it. But why should he? He shouldn't have to beg the NFL to let him play. The NFL makes a whole lot more off of him than he gets paid. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 9, 2015 17:54:05 GMT -5
... The really damning thing about the article is that it cites multiple former Patriot players, coaches and employees who describe, in detail, the various ways the Patriots cheated or otherwise pushed the boundaries on ethical behavior ... Which ones? |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 9, 2015 18:23:52 GMT -5
I have no doubt he can handle it. But why should he? He shouldn't have to beg the NFL to let him play. The NFL makes a whole lot more off of him than he gets paid. He has a chance to become the only 5 time Super Bowl Champion QB.....an athletic achievement that will carry mythical, greek god notariety for the rest of human time...even though it is a totally superflous, meaningless achievement in human endeavors. |
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Post by texs31 on Sept 9, 2015 18:41:50 GMT -5
Ugh. Stork to IR-DTR. Arguably our best OL and it's tough to lose that designation before the first game.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 9, 2015 18:52:03 GMT -5
Next man up.
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Post by mgoetze on Sept 9, 2015 19:12:28 GMT -5
Ugh. Stork to IR-DTR. Arguably our best OL and it's tough to lose that designation before the first game. I've always thought there should be at least two of those spots, NFL roster rules are like a straitjacket. |
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Post by joshv02 on Sept 9, 2015 19:14:04 GMT -5
It's not just unsubstantiated rumors, though. The really damning thing about the article is that it cites multiple former Patriot players, coaches and employees who describe, in detail, the various ways the Patriots cheated or otherwise pushed the boundaries on ethical behavior. I agree that the degree of outrage is overblown (e.g., other teams pull this kind of stuff regularly as well), and I am generally skeptical that the Patriots gained a significant competitive advantage from their actions. But let's not pretend that there is nothing new or meaningful here. What is new that is substantiated? |
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Post by joshv02 on Sept 9, 2015 19:15:59 GMT -5
Ugh. Stork to IR-DTR. Arguably our best OL and it's tough to lose that designation before the first game. I've always thought there should be at least two of those spots, NFL roster rules are like a straitjacket. It's a new designatioN only a few years old. I suspect it will move to that. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2015 19:49:41 GMT -5
 Panthers vs. Vikings 2014. |
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Post by jmei on Sept 9, 2015 20:23:56 GMT -5
It's not just unsubstantiated rumors, though. The really damning thing about the article is that it cites multiple former Patriot players, coaches and employees who describe, in detail, the various ways the Patriots cheated or otherwise pushed the boundaries on ethical behavior. I agree that the degree of outrage is overblown (e.g., other teams pull this kind of stuff regularly as well), and I am generally skeptical that the Patriots gained a significant competitive advantage from their actions. But let's not pretend that there is nothing new or meaningful here. What is new that is substantiated? Besides the litany of new details about Spygate, there's this: |
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Post by texs31 on Sept 9, 2015 20:34:29 GMT -5
What I don't get is how rudimentary some of these examples are. These guys say that Pats would send guys into the locker room but nobody thought to leave someone behind? Plant a video camera to catch them in the act?
Pats employees used to cover up the logos as a way to disguise themselves? Really? That's what they came up with? Sounds more like Pats saying we're not going to try too hard to hide what we're doing (bc everybody does it). You want to go through the effort to stop us? Here you go. Almost as though they weren't trying to glean info but, instead, distract the teams.
Just seems weird
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 9, 2015 21:07:02 GMT -5
That's some funny stuff there. Pats employed stealth thief to sneak undetected into locker rooms and swipe game day materials — right. Coaches and players never saw him, security guard stationed outside the door never say him — right. I wonder how exactly they rummaged the hotels? Did they have duplicate keys to all of the rooms, were they in cahoots with the hotel manager, or maybe they used the stealth thief?
I mean, this is some seriously funny (and unattributed — I mean, who would want to put their name to such nonsense) "stuff."
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Post by joshv02 on Sept 9, 2015 21:50:05 GMT -5
What is new that is substantiated? Besides the litany of new details about Spygate, there's this: There are virtually no new spygate allegations. What do you think is new? The the Walsh stuff is not new. It's admitted as not new; what investigators did he talk to recently? The rest of the allegations (completely unsubstantiated) are not new. They've been repeated over the past 15 years. In fact all were detailed exactly the same by SI in January: www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/19/new-england-patriots-deflategate-bill-belichick-tom-bradyThe unnamed former employees are bs. This is not Watergate. Give a source or get off the can. I can write more from a non phone device if you really need me to but this is nonsense. It's pretty obviously nonsense tool if you look at them individually. |
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Post by jmei on Sept 9, 2015 22:07:26 GMT -5
There were new details about Spygate (e.g., Adams' role in the operation, the nuts and bolts of how the information gained was used on gameday, etc.) that, to the best of my knowledge, had not been previously published. The confirmation by multiple former Patriots employees of the other "small s---" is significant-- do you really think Van Natta and Wickersham invented their sources or that multiple sources independently made up the same stories about the Patriots' shady activity?
I'm obviously not going to change your mind, and I won't argue too much more on the subject. But I'm honestly astounded at the lengths to which you and many other smart, reasonable people Patriots fans have gone to try and hand wave away this story.
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Post by pasadenasox on Sept 10, 2015 3:56:35 GMT -5
I totally believe that other teams in the league think that the Pats did/do stuff to the point of paranoia. Maybe they even kinda want them to? But if didn't read anything that made me think that there is more to the story than had already been reported or alleged previously.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 10, 2015 6:00:08 GMT -5
But doesn't a reasonable person ask a lot of questions to which there don't seem to be answers that make sense? If this was so unacceptable and a Patriot - only thing, why weren't teams doing more to catch them in the act? Why are all of theses examples coming from former Patriot staffers instead of all of the coaches who have been supposedly victimized by it.
Bill Cowher and Mike Shanahan have come out and said that all teams try to steal signals.
In both of the "Gates", I think it comes down to the same thing. BB disrespected another Head Coach and this is the payback. With Spygate, Mangini told BB not to do it and BB supposedly did it anyway (made worse by the idea that he targeted "unsophisticated" teams - read: You're unsophisticated Eric) so EM called him out.
Meanwhile, didnt the Ravens blow the whistle on the footballs shortly after BB told Harbaugh to "know the rules" following the ineligible receiver formations?
It's just always felt as though this level of gamesmanship is part of the coaches "code". When BB broke another part of the "code" (disrespecting your fellow coaches), they paid him back.
That's what it feels like, anyway.
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