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8/18 ML Gameday Thread: Anderson Espinoza pitches in the GCL
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2015 13:21:32 GMT -5
Please tell me not to think that Espinoza is the best of all of our prospects in the last 5 years. I'm more excited about him than Betts and Bogaerts. He's already #1 for me currently. No way I'm getting that excited. He's very good and all, but I'm not sure I give up Betts or Bogaerts for Urias, who's farther along and probably a best case scenario for Espinoza. Have to wait until pitchers hit the upper levels of the minors to get too excited IMO. That should be in the next few weeks, right?
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Post by ramireja on Aug 18, 2015 13:24:26 GMT -5
I still don't really understand the giant rush to promote him and ready for him a "Boston experience." At this point, he is simply getting acclimated to the states, his teammates, travel, etc., while building some innings against older competition. There is plenty of time for him to advance in his minor league career. Just let the guy get some innings in this year while keeping his confidence high.
I'm very excited about his future, but I'm willing to be quite patient. It might take a 2 more full years to simply build the arm strength to endure 150-180 innings, let alone 200+.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 18, 2015 13:55:29 GMT -5
No way I'm getting that excited. He's very good and all, but I'm not sure I give up Betts or Bogaerts for Urias, who's farther along and probably a best case scenario for Espinoza. Have to wait until pitchers hit the upper levels of the minors to get too excited IMO. That should be in the next few weeks, right? Sounds about right
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 18, 2015 14:05:04 GMT -5
4IP 1H 0ER 0BB 7K (the one hit was an infield single) "Joseph Astacio singles on a bunt ground ball to third baseman Roldani Baldwin." Boooooo! Bunt single ... he was promptly erased on a double-play, then the next batter struck out. So 4 innings, 7Ks, nothing left the infield. As for "better than Bogaerts or Betts," Xander was the #2 prospect in baseball, and if Mookie hadn't rocketed to the majors so quickly, he maybe would've been in the top 5, as well. Hard to rank a GCL pitcher above that, no matter how good he looks right now. Yeah, theres no way. But it may be that he is the best 17 year old Red Sox prospect since XXXXX. Or that he is the best GCL prospect since XXXXXX. But yeah… pitchers.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 18, 2015 14:12:49 GMT -5
Yeah, but can go 5 innings for once? Seriously, the guy needs a challenge. Lowell or Greenville, tout de suit Or he could do a semi-Satchel Paige thing and pitch without an outfield. At this point it really does seem like he is learning nothing from facing these hitters. In fact, this is the sort of domination that warrants a double advance. There are certainly enough Latino players in Greenville (a dozen) for him to be OK culturally; he even has a Venezuelan catcher he can pitch to, Sopilka, and another countryman in Dedgar Jimenez. King Felix was promoted to low-A for his last 2 age-17 starts; this would be the same thing.
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Post by trotnixonforever on Aug 18, 2015 14:35:38 GMT -5
Best Red Sox pitching prospect since the Rocket. No question at this point. The only thing I'm worried about at this point is his arm falling off.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 18, 2015 14:36:24 GMT -5
Yeah, but can go 5 innings for once? Seriously, the guy needs a challenge. Lowell or Greenville, tout de suit Or he could do a semi-Satchel Paige thing and pitch without an outfield. At this point it really does seem like he is learning nothing from facing these hitters. In fact, this is the sort of domination that warrants a double advance. There are certainly enough Latino players in Greenville (a dozen) for him to be OK culturally; he even has a Venezuelan catcher he can pitch to, Sopilka, and another countryman in Dedgar Jimenez. King Felix was promoted to low-A for his last 2 age-17 starts; this would be the same thing. I would rather see him stay in Florida and continue to build arm strength while under the supervision of the Red Sox instructors. Next year he can start at Greenville and we can see how his stuff plays out over there.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 18, 2015 16:00:19 GMT -5
Please tell me not to think that Espinoza is the best of all of our prospects in the last 5 years. I'm more excited about him than Betts and Bogaerts. He's already #1 for me currently. Honestly, I'm with you. I just want him to pitch at Greenville so I can justify that thinking to myself. He's really a rare talent. As much as I enjoy watching good position players, there's just something about having a true ace on your team. Every fifth day is an *event*. And by "ace", I don't mean a generic #1, I'm talking Pedro/RJ/Maddux/Kershaw/Clemens-type pitcher. The once-in-a-decade type guys. The transcendent pitchers with flair and dominance...the kind of player Espinoza is really starting to look like.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 18, 2015 16:05:15 GMT -5
Yeah, but can go 5 innings for once? Seriously, the guy needs a challenge. Lowell or Greenville, tout de suit Or he could do a semi-Satchel Paige thing and pitch without an outfield. At this point it really does seem like he is learning nothing from facing these hitters. In fact, this is the sort of domination that warrants a double advance. There are certainly enough Latino players in Greenville (a dozen) for him to be OK culturally; he even has a Venezuelan catcher he can pitch to, Sopilka, and another countryman in Dedgar Jimenez. King Felix was promoted to low-A for his last 2 age-17 starts; this would be the same thing. Yeah, he really is going to get absolutely nothing more from pitching in the GCL. If it's just innings, fine...but he can get those in low A ball. Lowell would just be a waste at this point. He's been so thoroughly dominant that I agree re: the double-skip. Let him get a few piggyback starts there, acclimate for next year, and face someone who *might* be able to give him an occasional challenge. There's such a thing as the danger of being too conservative as well.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2015 16:14:44 GMT -5
This has probably been asked a million times, but Short Season to Low A isn't really much of a jump, is it? I thought Short Season is basically mainly for college draftees who have already played long seasons.
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Post by ramireja on Aug 18, 2015 16:24:00 GMT -5
I mean you could make the argument he is learning something at this level. He's learning to go from very good (first 6 GCL starts: 1.04 WHIP, 17k/8bb in 24 innings) to dominant (last three starts: 0.50 WHIP, 17k/1bb in 12 innings).
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2015 16:31:48 GMT -5
He's been so thoroughly dominant that I agree re: the double-skip. I don't really know that that's true. Prior to today's start, he had a 7.59 K/9 and a 2.53 BB/9 in 32.0 IP in his GCL stint. That's obviously still really, really good, and it'll get even better with today's masterpiece, but I think you're exaggerating his success at least a little. He doesn't crack the top 10 in FIP for pitchers with as many innings as he does in the GCL, for instance (though he does rank second in ERA and fifth in WHIP), and he's not really faced hitters a third time through the order. Hell, we had a few posts the other day from posters who were confused by why he wasn't striking out more GCL hitters. Of course, he also scouts really well and there's obviously an argument to be made that he should be promoted. I just wanted to push back slightly on the idea that he's been dominating the GCL. ADD: ramireja makes the point much more succinctly above. I'll add that this is the kind of thing where I'd trust the Red Sox player development folks much more than our box score-based frustrations. They have a much better idea of his player development needs and whether he's ready for a promotion than we are.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 18, 2015 16:38:51 GMT -5
This has probably been asked a million times, but Short Season to Low A isn't really much of a jump, is it? I thought Short Season is basically mainly for college draftees who have already played long seasons. There's an interesting mix of college guys, international players, and a few high school graduates. It really is all over the map and that can make it difficult to figure out what you're looking at. A 22-year college reliever can come in, mow down the talent, and look like he's a star. Move him up the ladder one notch and he might come across as a refugee from a pickup softball game.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 18, 2015 16:56:19 GMT -5
The other Espinoza: 6IP 2H 1ER 2BB 8K
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 18, 2015 17:02:06 GMT -5
This has probably been asked a million times, but Short Season to Low A isn't really much of a jump, is it? I thought Short Season is basically mainly for college draftees who have already played long seasons. As far as level-to-level jumps go, I view the jump from the GCL to the NY-Penn league as a fairly sizable one. SS-A to low A is a more moderate jump.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 18, 2015 17:17:08 GMT -5
Lowell has a shot at playoffs, their season could extend into the week of 9-13. Wouldn't surprise me to see a GCL core group head there.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 18, 2015 17:41:31 GMT -5
Best Red Sox pitching prospect since the Rocket. No question at this point. No. Clay Buchholz was a better prospect. Nowadays people sort of take him for granted, but Clay was just a ridiculous prospect back in the day.
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Post by jrffam05 on Aug 18, 2015 18:14:25 GMT -5
As a 17 year old in his first pro season throwing high 90's with that frame, I'm ok with a conservative assignment. It's not going to dictate his arrival or his development. I'd be worried about his workload management and mechanics then the type of batters he strikes out.
Very exciting prospect
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Aug 18, 2015 18:25:18 GMT -5
I'm in Greensboro watching Greenville; rain has held off but may come . Guerra, Devers, Beni not in lineup, alas. Moncada leadoff single was a grounder past short, and his stolen base was off a catcher who looks slow.
In warm ups, Benintendi looked the size of a batboy, in part because Guerra was not there and everyone else is bigger
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Aug 18, 2015 18:51:29 GMT -5
Best Red Sox pitching prospect since the Rocket. No question at this point. No. Clay Buchholz was a better prospect. Nowadays people sort of take him for granted, but Clay was just a ridiculous prospect back in the day. Jeff Suppan had pretty good stats in the GCL at 18 and was in Boston at 20
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Post by brnichols19873 on Aug 18, 2015 18:59:45 GMT -5
Best Red Sox pitching prospect since the Rocket. No question at this point. No. Clay Buchholz was a better prospect. Nowadays people sort of take him for granted, but Clay was just a ridiculous prospect back in the day. I for one forgot how highly regarded buch was in the minors...was Bp's #2 overall prospect in 2008 per his baseball reference page: www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=buchho001cla
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 18, 2015 19:17:19 GMT -5
Moncada with a HR.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Aug 18, 2015 19:18:45 GMT -5
Moncada HR is s fly ball over the 385 sign in lcf batting rh.
2-3 and reached on an e-5 when his grounder handcuffed the 3b
Not much going on. Chavis showed good hands on two short hops at 3b
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Aug 18, 2015 19:18:59 GMT -5
What really needs to be done is identifying and obtaining more elite pitchers. I am in no hurry to rush the kid. He needs refinement like any prospect. Hopefully he listens and continues to improve. I will miss his box scores until next year.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 18, 2015 19:55:04 GMT -5
Moncada hits for some serious power vs LHP. Good line vs RHP too, but he has been scary against LHP.
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