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2016 Boston Celtics Offseason Thread
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Post by texs31 on Jul 8, 2016 16:47:52 GMT -5
If Danny thought Yabusele was best player available I love the pick. I just have a feeling he took best international player available to maintain payroll and roster flexibility. Which I think could be a huge mistake. History tells us always take best player available in NBA draft, always. Ok lets assume its Okafor. Pre draft the rumors were it would take #3 pick. What does it take now? Oh I definitely think it was "best guy that we can draft and stash available". That's not ideal but we shouldn't be shocked by it. I think we all knew that, if they kept the picks, that would be a direction. Again, if they had taken Jackson at 16, Bentil at 23 and then the ints with 2nd round picks, that would've been appropriate value (based on previous draft rankings). The circumstances dictated an alternative order of operation. Not sure what the cost on Okafor. Not Brown. Doubt BRK picks but MAYBE 2018 (the uncertainty of what happens between now and then and the delay on return, reducing it's value???) I would prefer not to give up Rozier but his potential redundancy on our roster may have a similar, albeit not equal, impact to his value as Philly's big man glut has on Okafors.
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Post by jmei on Jul 8, 2016 17:17:15 GMT -5
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Post by cto94 on Jul 8, 2016 17:26:16 GMT -5
If Danny thought Yabusele was best player available I love the pick. I just have a feeling he took best international player available to maintain payroll and roster flexibility. Which I think could be a huge mistake. History tells us always take best player available in NBA draft, always. Ok lets assume its Okafor. Pre draft the rumors were it would take #3 pick. What does it take now? Oh I definitely think it was "best guy that we can draft and stash available". That's not ideal but we shouldn't be shocked by it. I think we all knew that, if they kept the picks, that would be a direction. Again, if they had taken Jackson at 16, Bentil at 23 and then the ints with 2nd round picks, that would've been appropriate value (based on previous draft rankings). The circumstances dictated an alternative order of operation. Not sure what the cost on Okafor. Not Brown. Doubt BRK picks but MAYBE 2018 (the uncertainty of what happens between now and then and the delay on return, reducing it's value???) I would prefer not to give up Rozier but his potential redundancy on our roster may have a similar, albeit not equal, impact to his value as Philly's big man glut has on Okafors. I think you don't give up a Brooklyn pick, even the '18 one, unless it nets you a surefire starter or upgrade this year. On the surface I can see giving up rozier for Okafor, but I honestly still probably wouldn't do it at this stage, because I think there's a serious chance that you'll regret it by this time next year, though I may be more pessimistic on Okafor than is actually warranted. But it is telling that he seems to be drawing the least interest around the league of anyone Philly is trying to move, and if it is indeed he who's asking price is falling around the league, it seems to be a consensus opinion
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2016 17:50:09 GMT -5
Oh I definitely think it was "best guy that we can draft and stash available". That's not ideal but we shouldn't be shocked by it. I think we all knew that, if they kept the picks, that would be a direction. Again, if they had taken Jackson at 16, Bentil at 23 and then the ints with 2nd round picks, that would've been appropriate value (based on previous draft rankings). The circumstances dictated an alternative order of operation. Not sure what the cost on Okafor. Not Brown. Doubt BRK picks but MAYBE 2018 (the uncertainty of what happens between now and then and the delay on return, reducing it's value???) I would prefer not to give up Rozier but his potential redundancy on our roster may have a similar, albeit not equal, impact to his value as Philly's big man glut has on Okafors. I think you don't give up a Brooklyn pick, even the '18 one, unless it nets you a surefire starter or upgrade this year. On the surface I can see giving up rozier for Okafor, but I honestly still probably wouldn't do it at this stage, because I think there's a serious chance that you'll regret it by this time next year, though I may be more pessimistic on Okafor than is actually warranted. But it is telling that he seems to be drawing the least interest around the league of anyone Philly is trying to move, and if it is indeed he who's asking price is falling around the league, it seems to be a consensus opinion I would trade Rozier in a second for Okafor. His price might have dropped from wanting #3 pick and players, it didn't fall off a cliff 20,000 feet. Another pre draft rumor was they wanted to do an Okafor for Russel. #2 pick for #3 pick and you won't trade them the #16 pick? I don't see how Sixer's would trade him and not get back one of Nets picks. Otherwise they are trading him for 50 cents on the dollar.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 9, 2016 7:19:58 GMT -5
I'm worried about a major trade for a couple reasons.
1. The goal right now is still to build a sustainable dynasty type run. To do that you need both established stars and young players you have control over that can keep refreshing. The future Nets picks give you a chance to both add a star and young cost controlled talent that U can then go over the cap to trade. Trading Rozier, Smart, Mickey or Young at this stage in their development hurts a bit. Especially, Rozier. He looks like he could develop into that guy that makes Bradley or Smart available to trade for an upgrade when the time is right.
2. The order in which u add is key. I think adding Cousins or Butler now takes your ability to sign a max guy next year and almost kills it. If you add one of them by trading a Nets pick and young talent your team no only isn't a true contender, you've lost flexibility to add another player. Not only that, you're moving your really young talent and creating a smaller window than we should be shooting for today. Next year this time is another story.
One more note on Cousins. He only has 2 years left on his contract so if he works out he will become unrestricted at a time you can't use his bird rights to resign him. Isaiah and Avery will be free agents at the same time so I don't know if there will be the room to resign Cousins then use the others bird rights to go over.
These are all things Ainge fortunately thinks about and I feel good about Wyc stating their goal is to build a team that can win multiple titles not just one.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 9, 2016 7:24:43 GMT -5
All that being said I think Okafor is the guy they are still most interested in. Butler is good but not an ideal fit in my opinion. He's not a shooter. Giving up a lot to bring in a guy who's an expensive version than what you already have (defense, slashing, etc) isn't what I think is good use of those resources. He's better sure but at what cost? How drastically does he change what the team can do? Is that worth all the assets and cap space? I don't think so.
Okafor, is on a rookie contract and Horford would be an incredible mentor. Philly NEEDS to clear that log jam and are having trouble doing that. Seriously, Rozier, Hunter and our own 2018 first rd pick is a good get for Philly.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 9, 2016 8:25:54 GMT -5
If you trade for a player you gain their bird rights.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 9, 2016 8:27:34 GMT -5
That's a positive then
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 9, 2016 8:29:24 GMT -5
But I tend to agree with you that the target Wyc was referring to was one of the Philly centers. Probably Okafor.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 9, 2016 11:41:40 GMT -5
If you trade for a player you gain their bird rights. Did the NBA change the rule? I've seen players like Devean George vetoed a trade because he would lose bird rights. The definition of bird rights is being with team for 3 years. You get early bird rights after two years with team.
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Post by cto94 on Jul 9, 2016 12:29:05 GMT -5
I think you don't give up a Brooklyn pick, even the '18 one, unless it nets you a surefire starter or upgrade this year. On the surface I can see giving up rozier for Okafor, but I honestly still probably wouldn't do it at this stage, because I think there's a serious chance that you'll regret it by this time next year, though I may be more pessimistic on Okafor than is actually warranted. But it is telling that he seems to be drawing the least interest around the league of anyone Philly is trying to move, and if it is indeed he who's asking price is falling around the league, it seems to be a consensus opinion I would trade Rozier in a second for Okafor. His price might have dropped from wanting #3 pick and players, it didn't fall off a cliff 20,000 feet. Another pre draft rumor was they wanted to do an Okafor for Russel. #2 pick for #3 pick and you won't trade them the #16 pick? I don't see how Sixer's would trade him and not get back one of Nets picks. Otherwise they are trading him for 50 cents on the dollar. Then don't do the deal, that's my stance. I don't like Okafor as a player at all, don't think he's a good fit on the court or off it. I don't really care what the asking price is, or what Philly would or wouldn't take. In my view, there's no sense in dealing a pick that has a very good shot of being top-5 for a head case center with conditioning problems who doesn't play defense. Just because Okafor went #3 in that draft doesn't mean that he's a better player than Rozier, or will become one. Either way, if you can't steal him, don't do it because what does he really add to our current roster? It's not like he fills a need at all. We already have 4-5 bigs for next year who can either stretch the floor, defend or both. He does neither, and Horford makes his ability to play in the post redundant.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 9, 2016 13:15:15 GMT -5
If you trade for a player you gain their bird rights. Did the NBA change the rule? I've seen players like Devean George vetoed a trade because he would lose bird rights. The definition of bird rights is being with team for 3 years. You get early bird rights after two years with team. From RealGM: - In a vast majority of cases, a player on the same contract will take tenure toward Bird rights with him even if traded. James Harden serves as an excellent example here. Even though Houston traded for Harden shortly before his extension deadline, they were still able to use Bird rights to sign him to an extension before he played a single regular season game for them. The most common case of a player losing Bird rights comes when they are on a one-year contract that will give them Bird rights (Early or Full) at the end of that season. In these circumstances, players actually have an extremely rare ability to block a trade because they would lose their Bird rights if the deal goes through.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 9, 2016 13:31:56 GMT -5
Kris Dunn looking all cybercommando early.
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Post by honestlyabe on Jul 9, 2016 17:14:00 GMT -5
It's crazy, but I'm getting hyped up just to watch Summer League games. Man, I love this squad. The Celtics subreddit has decided Rozier's nickname should be Scary Terry for this guy... I love it, any Rick and Morty fans here?
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Post by texs31 on Jul 9, 2016 18:46:11 GMT -5
You do gain the rights, but they have a cap hold that counts against you. So you can go over the cap to resign your own player. However, that 10 million hold could put then too close to the cap to get another max.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 9, 2016 21:11:56 GMT -5
I would trade Rozier in a second for Okafor. His price might have dropped from wanting #3 pick and players, it didn't fall off a cliff 20,000 feet. Another pre draft rumor was they wanted to do an Okafor for Russel. #2 pick for #3 pick and you won't trade them the #16 pick? I don't see how Sixer's would trade him and not get back one of Nets picks. Otherwise they are trading him for 50 cents on the dollar. Then don't do the deal, that's my stance. I don't like Okafor as a player at all, don't think he's a good fit on the court or off it. I don't really care what the asking price is, or what Philly would or wouldn't take. In my view, there's no sense in dealing a pick that has a very good shot of being top-5 for a head case center with conditioning problems who doesn't play defense. Just because Okafor went #3 in that draft doesn't mean that he's a better player than Rozier, or will become one. Either way, if you can't steal him, don't do it because what does he really add to our current roster? It's not like he fills a need at all. We already have 4-5 bigs for next year who can either stretch the floor, defend or both. He does neither, and Horford makes his ability to play in the post redundant. Hey if you don't like Okafor OK that's your right. Thing is he does bring things to table that we don't have. He can score at will in the paint. He did average 17.5 points, 7 rebounds and 1.2 blocks as a rookie. Not sure how Horford makes Okafor ability to play in post redundant. They are totally different players, with completely different skill sets. Do you really thing Rozier is a better player than Okafor? I like Rozier, but most likely he goes his entire career and doesn't average 17.5 points a game for a full season. I think your putting to much stock in summer league games. For the record I don't trade next year's Nets pick, but the 2018 I might do that. If you can get him for a deal like texs31 said Rozier, Hunter and our 2018 pick it's an easy choice for me.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2016 8:10:15 GMT -5
It's looking more and more likely that Sullinger is back here on a a year deal. That's a good thing; wonder if Zeller will be too? If so, that causes a roster issue. I like Zeller but I don't think he and Sully fit.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 10, 2016 8:30:23 GMT -5
It's looking more and more likely that Sullinger is back here on a a year deal. That's a good thing; wonder if Zeller will be too? If so, that causes a roster issue. I like Zeller but I don't think he and Sully fit. I actually like Sully on a one year deal. Johnson doesn't have a great track record of health and Mickey is still a big question mark. Sully would bring much needed rebounding and solid depth. But yeah, Zeller is useless to this team. If he signs the qualifying offer I would expect either a trade or for him to ride the end of the bench.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 10, 2016 9:45:46 GMT -5
Sully's QO and exception rights rescinded.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2016 9:51:37 GMT -5
Yea just saw that now he's unrestricted. They really don't like him obviously or they need the space for something else but I can't see what else they would need the space for...
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2016 9:52:08 GMT -5
Maybe a trade is about to be announced
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2016 9:58:06 GMT -5
More I think about it; I bet they r just doing him a favor. Maybe they know he will at least get a small deal that they don't really want to match at all so they are rescinding it so he has the chance to sign a bigger contract
Edit: head spinning around: there is a good chance they either kill his value by having him here on a one year deal or he retards the development of guys like Mickey or KO. Horford, Johnson, KO, Mickey and Jerebko aren't a bad rotation.
On the other hand, Danny just say Center was a spot they wanted to upgrade... Brings me back to the trade.... Hmmm
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Post by jmei on Jul 10, 2016 10:04:43 GMT -5
My money is on a pending trade or free agent signing. Even if they don't want him back, the only reason to renounce his RFA rights is to clear immediate cap space.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 10, 2016 10:06:46 GMT -5
Where did you hear news about QO being rescinded?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2016 10:08:19 GMT -5
I got a Team Stream announcement.
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