2016 Boston Celtics Offseason Thread

Danny hardly ever does draft and stash so we will see.

I think your being very harsh on Danny and drafting.  I actually think he's done very well.  Getting players like Bradley and Sullinger in middle of first round.  Players like big baby and Powe in second round.  His only lottery pick in Smart is still up in air, but there really hasn't been any players drafted after Smart that you can say he should have taken that player.  I really trust Danny to pick right player.

I think your way off on Murray, he is a complete scorer not just a shooter.  I'd say he's twice the player Navarro is.

I do love Valentine, he could be the perfect replacement for Turner.  I also like Onuako, not sure about top 10 pick, but one of our later first round picks should be enough to get him.  This draft is absolutely loaded with PF and C so a bunch of really good players will fall in this draft.

He also got Jefferson and Perkins late in the 1st. I'm not sure there is anyone in the NBA who has consistently found good NBA players outside the lottery as Danny.

Bismack Biyombo.... What are everyones thoughts on him and what would you be willing to pay him not what do you think he will get but what are you willing to pay?

He's an interesting player to me and one that I think could be a really great fit in a Stevens team. They need more shooting and he doesn't bring that but he brings rebounding and rim protection with great athleticism and youth. However, with that comes a lot of uncertainty and projection. I love his age - only 23... That's a huge plus... If you can keep it at about 4/60 for him then I think it's something you need to consider.

I wanted Biyombo last offseason. I wouldn't mind him this year, but not for 4 years and 60 million. Would do a Johnson type contract if Danny can't get other players. Just don't want to spend 15 million on long term deal on an unproven non star player.

In the past couple of days, I've seen a handful of Jimmy Butler trade ideas (not rumors) floated around by "experts".

Basketball Insiders' Joel Brigham posted 5 trades (3 with Minnesota and 2 with Boston). His Boston ideas:

Bradley/Crowder/Olynyk and #3 - to me this is crazy. The funny part is that JB says Boston might feel this is too rich (might?). Even funnier is that he thinks the problem is Kelly Olynyk. Yikes

Bradley/Rozier/Jerebko/#3/#16 - This one is much more palatable but I'm not sure Chicago would really do that. One of the Minny deals is Lavine, Dieng and #5 which I think would be a better offer (unless getting that #3 is so important to them). If I'm Chicago, I'd rather take the Minnesota offer.

Meanwhile, on ESPN, Celtics writer Chris Forsberg and Bulls Reporter Nick Friedell played Boston and Chicago GMs respectively. Friedell opened with:

Bradley/Crowder/#3/2017 right to swap with Brooklyn - Nope. I don't think an explanation is needed.

Forsberg countered with Bradley/Young/#3/#16/#23 - There is a lot of quantity there and Bradley + #3 has good value but Young would be of little interest and #16/#23 have good but not great value.

I know many are preaching patience here (btw, if we knew Durant would come here if we go and get Butler, my stance might change) but what do people think? If you're not willing to part with Bradley (preferable) or Crowder (less ideal and CERTAINLY not both), then I'm guessing it's a non-starter (maybe Smart could replace one of those guys).

But would you consider Bradley + #3 plus something else? What would that something else be?

I would rather trade Crowder than Bradley. I would do a Crowder, #3, #23 and Rozier/Young. Wanted to add that Butler's 3 point shot worries me. For 4 years he's been very good one year and then not very good the next year. His career #s aren't that good. He's still a very good player and elite when his 3 point shot is going down. I'm just not going going to make a crazy offer for Butler, like I would for Cousins.

I know it doesn't seem so, but Bradley is younger than Crowder. So whatever room Crowder had to grow, so does Bradley. I'm not sure how well advance stats represent Bradley's true value. ESPN real plus minus gives Bradley a negative defensive rating, which I don't buy. Would have to look, but i'm guessing that had to do with who they paired him with, playing along side Thomas might have really hurt his numbers. They also rank him as PG and not SG, which again would hurt his war, as his assists would be dreadful for a pg.

Also real plus mins and war show Love as top 10 player and a very good defensive rating. They rated Sullinger 28th in whole league and one of the better defenders by dRPM, Crowder was 26th.

For me it's close, but I like Bradley, Butler and Thomas a little bit more, over Crowder, Butler and Thomas. With Bradley we have more shooting, which I think is big.

Bradley's DRPM last 3 years -1.24, .73 and 1.22. Thomas is -1.93, -2.69 and -1.62.

Crowder can guard more positions than Bradley, but cannot shoot nearly as well. 33% on 5 attempts to game is bad for Jae. 36% on 5.4 attempts per game for Bradley is about average.

Still would rather have Crowder of the two but I think people tend to overlook his poor shooting when evaluating him.

I wonder when IT and Bradley will be more valuable as trade pieces than players. We are likely coming up to that point soon with AB, if we're not already there already.


jmei, I agree with you on Bradley's defensive prowess being a bit overrated. Great on ball, meh off ball.

Absolutely agree on Crowder's total value to other teams and believe that's the guy most teams want (aside from picks).

As for fit on a contender, I'd actually think Crowder is better. Again, he can lineup against 2s, 3s and 4s and not be totally dominated. While Bradley is great on the ball, I can't see him lineup against a PF and not get destroyed by most of them.

Crowder just seems to be every thing we wanted Jeff Green to be (albeit less offensive upside - though more consistency). While I won't use HIS name, talk about a guy who would be perfect to lineup next to a tall scoring F. Wouldn't matter which one is the PF and which one is the SF. Just figure out where you need the better defender and put Crowder on him. We don't really have anyone else like that. Butler would certainly have more defensive flexibility if that's the trade but him at G and Crowder and F (or a small ball lineup with Smart/Butler/Crowder plus a rim-protector to be named later would be a touch matchup).

On the other hand, if Smart could ever improve on the offensive side, some of the defensive value Bradley brings could be offset.

BC of that fit, I have it in my head (it's a strange place, trust me) that if Butler is the guy, I'd rather give up Bradley. However, if Paul George is the target, I'd be more willing to give up Crowder (again, I admit that it's based more on perception not stats).

I love his versatility, but saying he can guard 1-4 is a big stretch for me. I also see Crowder as strictly a SF, sure you can play a small ball line up against certain teams with him at PF, but not on a full time basis. I just don't think Crowder can play full time D against PG and PF. Sure he can guard them in pick and rolls, and against certain players, but not in general.