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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2016 18:50:54 GMT -5
Then only thing Bradley really has over Crowder is three point shooting and he's not a great three point shooter so who really cares? Crowder had a better contract with more years, is more durable, a more efficient offensive player despite the worse three point shot, defense more positions and does it well, is a better rebounder and although this isn't measurable he's a team leader. Bradley gets hurt every year - I know people don't like to call players injury prone but he does so that's another negative. I like Bradley but if we are comparing the two Crowder is both more better and more valuable.
Other than that I really don't want Butler. This team isn't ready to turn into an instant contender, I worry Butler has reached his peak and I'm not confident he's what this team needs and by the time they do he will be on the decline. Love is even worse. Danny needs to chill and not pay for a second rate "star".
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2016 18:53:27 GMT -5
Oh yea and don't listen to Jmei, if it were up to him Omar Asik would be clogging up a roster spot right now.... Sorry I kid I kid
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Post by jmei on Jun 17, 2016 19:38:26 GMT -5
Over the last two seasons, Bradley has played 76 and 77 games-- hard to call that "injury-prone." He missed playoff games with the hamstring injury, but he's otherwise been fairly durable of late.
Asik is certainly overpaid, but the Celtics would be a better team if they had him. Still defends and rebounds well enough, the issue is that he was on a bad team without floor spacing or a guard who could create his own offense.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2016 19:41:29 GMT -5
I was kidding Jmei but let's not try to call Asik a good player worth his contract. The game has evolved passed him. Not saying he can't help a certain situation but he needs to be making a lot less - cap increase or not.
Bradley has been better of late yes.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2016 19:45:28 GMT -5
You don't want Butler, because he will be in decline by time team is ready to compete? Butler is basically same age as our top 4 scorers from last year. Only Sullinger our #5 scorer who everyone wants to get rid of is way younger. The core of this team is ready to compete now in my opinion. Butler would fill a lot of needs this team has, he really is a complete player, that makes players around him better.
Do you think player we could get at #3 is going to be a true difference maker?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2016 19:47:44 GMT -5
My apologies I thought Butler was already 28.
That being said I do not know what we are going to get at 3. The trade wouldn't be number 3 for Butler though. I wouldn't have an issue there.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2016 19:52:34 GMT -5
Considering, his age I don't see him as a realistic trade option. No reason for Chicago to deal him other than for a situation we shouldn't be looking at. Like multiple Nets picks. He's not the missing piece - he's a step closer but you need to leave yourself the ability to get there.
I really think their best play is wait another year. Draft at 3 and another first round spot, hope it pans out, hope some of ur other guys take a step forward and in free agency take a calculated risk on a buy low guy u believe could break out.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2016 1:48:28 GMT -5
Reports are that Butler really turned off people within Bulls management last year. When you hear this many rumors for this long and team doesn't come out and say they are BS, it means he's available. Now I agree chances are they don't trade him unless they get blown away.
I also agree Butler doesn't make us instant contenders, but he would make it easier to get thoses final pieces, just like Ray Allen. Remember KG said no until Allen was traded for.
At this point it looks likely that they make pick and go from there.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2016 9:08:46 GMT -5
Chicago also faces the reality that they only have 1 star (Butler) and really no other assets to help them get another (unless they can get a free agent).
Butler makes them too good to get a high pick capable becoming another star. So they either have to hit on a late lotto pick, get free agents to sign, or trade their best young player to get a package of assets that increases their odds of getting a young star.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2016 11:06:37 GMT -5
Right which means us trading multiple nets picks which then let's us swap spots with Chicago.... No thanks...
By the way. Brown coming for a second work out... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO please god don't take him third.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2016 11:19:35 GMT -5
Well, no. We are in the enviable position of doing well while still having the ability to add high level talent via the BRK picks.
Now, if we have to trade 2 or more of those, then we'd be in a similar spot.
I think we all agree, it's all about the price.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2016 11:29:55 GMT -5
I really trust Danny, so I have to think he's just doing his due diligence on Brown. Brown just didn't really do anything well last year. Only 5.4 rebounds, Murray had 5.2 a game. .6 blocks and .8 steals per game from a great athlete known for his D?? That's just really bad.
One thing that would make sense, Danny is thinking about trading 16 and 23 to move up and grab Brown, not taking him at 3. If he takes him at 3 over the other players I would be shocked even with all the rumors out there.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2016 11:39:26 GMT -5
With Butler it's most certainly all about price. I don't see them getting 2 high lottery picks and players like Bradley and/or Crowder, plus filler. If that's price I would pass.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2016 13:36:13 GMT -5
My question on Brown is how much does his profile differ from Johnson and Winslow last year. We know Danny was obsessed enough with the latter, to offer multiple 1st rounders to move up.
If he sees similar potential in Brown (along with the athleticism and defensive ability that is more of a know commodity) the interest could be very real.
He could be Danny acceptable compromise between the raw upside of Bender and Chriss and the high ceilings of Hield and Dunn.
That search for the best of both could be why we are hearing Brown (and Murray) so much in mocks.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2016 14:42:13 GMT -5
While I agree Winslow and Johnson are similar players, they were way more productive in College. They both had much better rebounding numbers, steals and 3 point % compared to Brown, while also committing less fouls. I'M not positive but I think Brown had lowest per of any player projected to go in first round. He's so raw that he makes Chriss look not raw.
I could get behind Brown if he was a jump shot away from being a star, but he's not. He's more like Thon Maker, a looooong term project.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2016 8:25:25 GMT -5
I read an interesting piece on Brown on Celtics blog. He's an impressive person, incredibly smart and very ambitious off the court. He wants to learn two more languages (already fluent in Spanish) within the next 6 years. He studies things like world poverty and wants to change the perception of elite athletes not being able to be scholars as well. That leads me to this question... And please it's not racial so let's not take it there. Should all these other interest or perhaps more so his scholarly aspirations be a negative against him? The arguable concern (not saying I would hold this again him but I would debate it to determine if I should) in my mind is something like this:
The amount of work and sacrifice needed for a guy like him to develop his jump shot to be that top player he says he wants to be is big. It's going to take a lot of time and energy and focus to do so. I mean hours in the gym a day shooting and working out then more time eating right etc. Would it be somewhat likely, once he makes millions (not 10s of millions) just millions that he will look at this as a waste of his brain and a waste of his impact on the world?
I realize it's kind of unfair to look at it this way and make a judgement but you need to find it if these things will fuel his competitive drive to be great or be a detriment to it or have no impact.
I realize there is a flip side to the coin that he would use this as motivation and being a chess player thinking moves ahead that his hard work on the court today can put him in a greater position to do things he wants to do later with fame and notoriety that he wouldn't have otherwise.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 20, 2016 8:33:49 GMT -5
Chad Ford was messing around and proposing trades. This was the Celtics/Sixers deal. At first glance I think people will say no way Philly does it but he contends they kind of need to deal Okafor or Noel when they draft Simmons and want to deal Okafor but his value isn't very high.
Celtics send Bradley, Rozier, Hunter, 16 and 23
Sixers send : Okafor, Staukus, Landry and picks 24,26
This will sound silly but I would be disappointed to lose Rosier, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
I worry the game may be passing a guy like Okafor by but this is a trade that really is a no lose for the Celtics and Sixers can probably say the same.
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Post by blucore on Jun 20, 2016 8:39:01 GMT -5
With Cleveland winning the title, I think Love has confirmed that while he is an imperfect fit, it doesn't make sense to break apart a championship team unless they are definitely getting better. There has been some buzz about a Love-for-Anthony deal, but I don't see that making sense for the Knicks, since Love does not really fit with Porzingis. This is where I could see the Celtics facilitating a 3-team deal, with the important assets exchanged being Love to Boston, Carmelo to the Cavs, and young talent from Boston going to the Knicks. This way, the Cavs can improve their team, the Knicks can move forward with the draft-and-develop route, and the Celtics can keep all of Thomas/Bradley/Crowder together, while getting Love.
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Post by cto94 on Jun 20, 2016 9:49:21 GMT -5
Chad Ford was messing around and proposing trades. This was the Celtics/Sixers deal. At first glance I think people will say no way Philly does it but he contends they kind of need to deal Okafor or Noel when they draft Simmons and want to deal Okafor but his value isn't very high. Celtics send Bradley, Rozier, Hunter, 16 and 23 Sixers send : Okafor, Staukus, Landry and picks 24,26 This will sound silly but I would be disappointed to lose Rosier, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I worry the game may be passing a guy like Okafor by but this is a trade that really is a no lose for the Celtics and Sixers can probably say the same. No lose except we give up a comparatively young, cheap starting player for a center who can't play defense, and 2-guard who'd be on his 3rd (4th?) team in 3 years in the league, and a pretty useless player in carl landry while moving down a couple picks and bailing on 2 2nd year players with some useful-looking tools? I thought that trade was a joke of a suggestion, the other ideas Ford had up there were pretty absurd (Love back to Minnesota as part of a 3-way deal to get Melo to Cleveland being one of them). Honestly I would way rather have Nerlens if we were going to get one of Philly's bigs cause he can block shots and should be a solid roll man. I want no part of Okafor, especially after all the strange happenings early last year and the fact that he basically got the pacman jones treatment after about a month in the league. |
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Post by tjb21 on Jun 20, 2016 10:30:40 GMT -5
I've learned to not really pay attention to Chad Ford, except when he's going back and changing his draft order after the draft happens.
Not sure I want Okafor on a team I root for, hard to building an offense or defense around his deficiencies.
Boston isn't going to compete without 2 mega stars (at least). KD isn't coming unfortunately. Not sure who else available moves the needle enough to transform Boston into a serious contender with the Cle/OKC/GS/Spurs of the league, without completely gutting their team. This off-season was set up to be magical, space for 2 max players, plus the ability to move pieces for a 3rd really good player. It's just not happening.
Might as well wait another year, improve their roster and see where they're at. Not sure there's a better plan that I'm seeing. What do y'all think?
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Post by jmei on Jun 20, 2016 10:39:26 GMT -5
They need to start trading draft picks and/or recently-drafted players because they literally do not have enough roster spots to accommodate everyone. There may not be any major moves, but there will almost certainly be some significant tweaks along the margins.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 20, 2016 12:49:53 GMT -5
Did everyone forget the Atlanta series when we couldn't score for long stretches of time? Okafor would most certainly help in that regards and help open up our 3 point shooters. In regular season a fast paced run and gun offense works we!l. In playoffs teams slow down pace and you need to be able to score in half court offense, which we really struggled with.
That trade makes a lot of sense for both teams in my opinion.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 21, 2016 5:54:39 GMT -5
Sounds like Noel is the guy Danny wants. Makes sense given the idea that Stevens would love a lineup of 4 shooters and a rim protector/ rim runner.
Would think Noel not enough for 3 though, right? I guess Boston could try and squeeze more picks out and then use then to creep back up the draft.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2016 7:16:35 GMT -5
They need to start trading draft picks and/or recently-drafted players because they literally do not have enough roster spots to accommodate everyone. There may not be any major moves, but there will almost certainly be some significant tweaks along the margins. Agreed but they may just end up selling some second rounders for future second rounders or perhaps one of their firsts. They should take at least 2-3 international players they can stash. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2016 7:19:15 GMT -5
Sounds like Noel is the guy Danny wants. Makes sense given the idea that Stevens would love a lineup of 4 shooters and a rim protector/ rim runner. Would think Noel not enough for 3 though, right? I guess Boston could try and squeeze more picks out and then use then to creep back up the draft. Yea word is talks are intensifying because Philly really wants that 3rd pick to draft Dunn. If that's the case Danny should play chicken and insist on Noel basically straight up for the 3rd pick. |
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