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Post by mandelbro on Jun 7, 2016 8:23:24 GMT -5
I think its fair to say that SF are simply a better organization at developing pitchers than Boston. Bumgarner is just that good, but they're getting every last ounce of ability out of Cueto and Shark right now. They squeezed out whatever you could from a mediocrity like Vogelsong for a few years. Every year they get a lot out of a middling guy. Chris Heston? Matt Cain having a career era of 3.5 is a miracle of science. And when they have someone with talent it usually ends well (Bumgarner, Lincecum before he snapped in two). The ballpark dimensions alone can't explain that kind of track record of pitchers being as good as you could ever possibly expect them to be.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 7, 2016 8:30:04 GMT -5
Even in Vogelsong's best years he would have been a 4-5 ERA guy in Boston. Pitching in SF in that division is substantially easier than pitching in Fenway. It's really that simple.
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Post by mandelbro on Jun 7, 2016 8:34:39 GMT -5
Even in Vogelsong's best years he would have been a 4-5 ERA guy in Boston. Pitching in SF in that division is substantially easier than pitching in Fenway. It's really that simple. So Matt Barnes, Henry Owens, Anthony Ranaudo, Allen Webster, Rubby De La Rosa, etc. would be good starting pitchers in SF? You can't chalk up the difference in track record to just the ballpark.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 7, 2016 9:06:46 GMT -5
I think its fair to say that SF are simply a better organization at developing pitchers than Boston. Bumgarner is just that good, but they're getting every last ounce of ability out of Cueto and Shark right now. They squeezed out whatever you could from a mediocrity like Vogelsong for a few years. Every year they get a lot out of a middling guy. Chris Heston? Matt Cain having a career era of 3.5 is a miracle of science. And when they have someone with talent it usually ends well (Bumgarner, Lincecum before he snapped in two). The ballpark dimensions alone can't explain that kind of track record of pitchers being as good as you could ever possibly expect them to be.It kinda can. Since 2014 xFIP- as a team: Giants: 99 Red Sox: 102
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 7, 2016 9:38:00 GMT -5
I think its fair to say that SF are simply a better organization at developing pitchers than Boston. Bumgarner is just that good, but they're getting every last ounce of ability out of Cueto and Shark right now. They squeezed out whatever you could from a mediocrity like Vogelsong for a few years. Every year they get a lot out of a middling guy. Chris Heston? Matt Cain having a career era of 3.5 is a miracle of science. And when they have someone with talent it usually ends well (Bumgarner, Lincecum before he snapped in two). The ballpark dimensions alone can't explain that kind of track record of pitchers being as good as you could ever possibly expect them to be. We need to be clear, here. Bumgarner is a fantastic pitcher, and the perfect comeback for those who insist that power pitchers are the end-all and be-all. His fastball plays much better thanks to the way he hides it and his size - how quickly it comes at the hitter. He may have the most consistent mechanics of any pitcher in the game. They deserve credit for drafting him. But neither Cueto nor Samardzija are products of that system. They got guys who can be effective in that ballpark and they are. Same can be said of Cain and Vogelsong. They've been very good at adapting to their location.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 7, 2016 10:45:14 GMT -5
Even in Vogelsong's best years he would have been a 4-5 ERA guy in Boston. Pitching in SF in that division is substantially easier than pitching in Fenway. It's really that simple. So Matt Barnes, Henry Owens, Anthony Ranaudo, Allen Webster, Rubby De La Rosa, etc. would be good starting pitchers in SF? You can't chalk up the difference in track record to just the ballpark. Henry Owens, RDLR, and maybe Barnes I believe would be able to stay in the rotation in SF most likely. It's way easier. Joe Kelly was a playoff starter for a WS contender not too long ago. The NL in general is way less harsh on pitchers, and SF and SD are extreme pitchers environments. Cueto couldn't hang in KC, but he's killing it in SF perhaps even to a greater extent than when he was in Cincy. Samardzija got rocked in Chicago, and he's back to being solid in SF. AJ Burnett goes from the AL East to the pitcher friendly PNC Park, and has a great run himself. Liriano also re-finds himself in Pitt. The NL is forgiving on pitchers. The AL East is brutal.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 7, 2016 12:05:06 GMT -5
Farrell on MLB radio just now - Ortiz will not start in SF but be avail for PH duties.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 7, 2016 13:04:31 GMT -5
I think its fair to say that SF are simply a better organization at developing pitchers than Boston. Bumgarner is just that good, but they're getting every last ounce of ability out of Cueto and Shark right now. They squeezed out whatever you could from a mediocrity like Vogelsong for a few years. Every year they get a lot out of a middling guy. Chris Heston? Matt Cain having a career era of 3.5 is a miracle of science. And when they have someone with talent it usually ends well (Bumgarner, Lincecum before he snapped in two). The ballpark dimensions alone can't explain that kind of track record of pitchers being as good as you could ever possibly expect them to be. Or it's just that he had good stuff and was in a ballpark that maximized it (rising fastball in cold, heavy air) when he was actually good. And really, if they're that good at developing pitchers, how come their rotation last year was Bumgarner and a bunch of garbage, which forced them to go sign two expensive free agents? Also, no one gets credit for "developing" Tim Lincecum. Dude was ripped fully formed from the thigh of Zeus.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 7, 2016 13:07:58 GMT -5
So Matt Barnes, Henry Owens, Anthony Ranaudo, Allen Webster, Rubby De La Rosa, etc. would be good starting pitchers in SF? You can't chalk up the difference in track record to just the ballpark. Henry Owens, RDLR, and maybe Barnes I believe would be able to stay in the rotation in SF most likely. It's way easier. Joe Kelly was a playoff starter for a WS contender not too long ago. The NL in general is way less harsh on pitchers, and SF and SD are extreme pitchers environments. Cueto couldn't hang in KC, but he's killing it in SF perhaps even to a greater extent than when he was in Cincy. Samardzija got rocked in Chicago, and he's back to being solid in SF. AJ Burnett goes from the AL East to the pitcher friendly PNC Park, and has a great run himself. Liriano also re-finds himself in Pitt. The NL is forgiving on pitchers. The AL East is brutal. This is why I really wanted the Red Sox to trade Owens in the offseason, as well as pretty much every other pitcher they come up with that doesn't look like an absolute stud. Young starters with back-to-mid rotation futures have plenty of value, but expose them to AL East parks and lineups and pretty soon you're trading them for pennies on the dollar.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 7, 2016 20:37:01 GMT -5
Red Sox's Carson Smith: Placed on 60-day DL Smith (forearm) was transferred to the 60-day DL on Tuesday. The move was essentially a formality, as Smith has already been ruled out for the remainder of the season -- and likely the start of the 2017 season -- after undergoing Tommy John surgery. The transaction clears up a space on Boston's 40-man roster, but there has yet to be a corresponding move. DID THE SOX JUST PICK SOMEBODY UP OFF WAIVERS today? It doesn't appear to be an internal move to add a player to the 40-man. www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/red-soxs-carson-smith-placed-on-60-day-dl/
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Post by bookiemetts on Jun 7, 2016 20:48:41 GMT -5
Could it be Varvaro? He's not on the 40 man and has had some nice results.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Jun 7, 2016 21:26:20 GMT -5
Scary play, given our current outfield depth. Nonetheless, great catch by Young.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 7, 2016 21:36:48 GMT -5
JBJ is awesome.
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Post by bosox81 on Jun 7, 2016 21:38:15 GMT -5
I'm warming up to Christ Young. Chris Young!!!
CV has to know they will pitch around him with the pitcher following. Take at least two pitches.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jun 7, 2016 21:39:02 GMT -5
CY needs PT
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Post by soxfan06 on Jun 7, 2016 21:40:33 GMT -5
Vazquez is the king of the routine GB to Short.
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 7, 2016 21:43:25 GMT -5
Dont let CY get hot!!
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 7, 2016 21:54:04 GMT -5
Xander really needs to stop doing stupid little things like that.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jun 7, 2016 21:58:22 GMT -5
Rick Porcello is the king of the long ball.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Jun 7, 2016 21:59:02 GMT -5
Porcello would be having a great year if he'd stop throwing pitches that land 400 feet away.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 7, 2016 21:59:06 GMT -5
Porcello keep giving dingers even in big parks. SMH
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 7, 2016 22:10:05 GMT -5
Hanley Ramirez ABs are getting more and more pathetic.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 7, 2016 22:13:05 GMT -5
Okay, so I'm out without access to a television and I hadn't yet checked the score. This made for a fun game of "guess the Red Sox score based on the overreaction of the gameday thread." I guessed San Fran 4, Boston 1.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Jun 7, 2016 22:16:09 GMT -5
Three junk hits in a row. Bear down, Porcello.
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Post by thursty on Jun 7, 2016 22:22:45 GMT -5
Xander really needs to stop doing stupid little things like that. Yeah, all the praise (justly) I've been giving him for being a heady player, and in a week he's dogged it out of the box (turning a sure 2B into a 1B), bunts with 2 men on, no out in 1st, and despite promising not to do it again, slides headfirst into first. Annoying
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