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Post by psusox14 on Sept 3, 2012 21:58:44 GMT -5
Although it'd be great to extend Jacoby this offseason, I don't think Boras will have at it for a reasonable price. Ells has shown he can be an MVP, franchise type player, but he has only done it one year. If an extension can not get done in the offseason, I believe he should be traded to maximize value before he becomes a 3 month rental. We have heard the Reds and Rangers have interest, possibly along with others. As Cherington, I am asking a steep Price to trade partners after asking a low price from Boras (hypocritical, but necessary). I may not have my values remotely realistic, as I am basing my projections on the Gonzo trade that sent 2 top 50 prospects and a top 100 high ceiling flyer away for a player with 1 year left. Ells doesn't have the value Gonzo did so I lowered the standards slightly. Please offer your proposals as to who you would want to receive in a Jacoby Ellsbury trade (not limited to Reds and Rangers).
Reds Robert Stephenson Tony Cingrani Amir Garrett
Rangers Mike Olt Cody Buckel (realistically Justin Grimm) Rougned Odor
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Post by brentl on Sept 4, 2012 10:15:29 GMT -5
Ya When I think of Ells trades I think of these two teams and the Nats the most. You have to remember Gonzos value was higher then Ells probally is right now an Gonzo wasnt a 1 year rental because we had agreed to a deal in principle which is why we pulled the trigger. I think the returns in those proposed deals are realistic an good trades. The Rangers one is Ideal imo. But as you said im not sure Buckel is realistic in a trade for ells that includes Olt already.
Rangers Mike Olt Cody Buckel/Barret Loux Wilmer Font/Tanner Scheppers
Rangers trade 2 Mike Olt Joey Gallo Luke Jackson/Kevin Mathews/Justin Grimm/Will Lamb ( if we could take one of them off there hands then a lesser SP/RP prospect is fine)
Nats Anthony Rendon Alex Myer/Brian Goodwin ( realistcly both Rendon an Myers is probally very doughtful) Nicholas Lee-Rick Hague if possible
Reds ( they get Marrero back in this deal) Billy Hamilton Robert Stephenson C if were lucky C + prospect like Ryan Lammare
Reds 2 Robert Stephenson Tony Cingrani Kyle Waldrop/Jesse Winker
My Ideal sceniaro would be to get a guy like Mike Olt an trade him to a team like Diamondback for Tyler Skaggs or Trevor Bauer then keep him or trade him to the Royals for Will Myers. Ya some might think why? The Answer is simple Will Myers is arguablly the best hitting prospect not named Mike Trout, Mike Stanton an Bryce Harper in the last 5 plus years. He has the ability to be Ryan Braun good an be the big bat we need. I like Olt alot an would love to have him but I dont see him as a true middle of the order bat like Myers. Myers could be Braun, Olt more like Youk, Great player or a really good one. I no some would want to keep the SP instead of get Myers an I would be ok with that if the SP was Skaggs.
Those are some of the trades Id love to see happen couple might be a little to much for another team to give up but if he agrees to a long term deal then it wouldnt be.
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Post by jsk793 on Sept 4, 2012 11:04:20 GMT -5
royals arent trading myers anytime soon and the reds wont trade hamilton either. Rangers is only realistic option I see. Having said that I think Ells, value right now is at an all time low. I think the sox would be better off letting him play next season and hopefully if he can return to 2011 form, they would be able to get a much better return than if they traded him now
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Post by jdb on Sept 4, 2012 14:28:59 GMT -5
If Hamilton is going to Arizona as a CF I can't see the Reds as an option and if I remember correctly around the deadline the Rangers felt they had to keep Olt bc they have an aging lineup. For them an Andrus for Upton trade makes a ton of sense.
As far as the Royals go they need SP in the worst way. I could see them dangling Butler or Gordon assuming we could send Ells to a third team for SP. I'm starting to think we keep him and see how the first four months turn out. I prefer prospects over picks since they would be a lot closer to Boston.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 6, 2012 22:27:26 GMT -5
If Hamilton leaves Texas - I would be willing to trade 1 year of Ellsbury for 2 years of Andrus straight up.
Gold glove, base-stealing shortstops with OBP skills don't come around all that often and Texas has no place for him unless they move Profar to CF.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 9, 2012 11:22:50 GMT -5
Ellsbury has not been swinging the bat well at all for the last several weeks.Hard to see other teams valuing him all that highly at this time.
I see 2 others with Ellsbury.
1.) Use him as part of a deal to trade for a SP. Our staff needs an ace. 2.) Keep him and enjoy the benefit of a contract year performance increase and then let him walk so Bradley can take his place in 2014. We get a draft pick when he leaves.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 11, 2012 8:07:03 GMT -5
Discussion going on in the main board as to where Ells ends up. Washington leads speculation.
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Post by jdb on Oct 2, 2012 8:03:01 GMT -5
Im starting to support an Ellsbury trade and a Victorino signing. What about Ells for Belt and Clayton Blackburn? Im not sure Ells has the value alot of us think. Bourne is out there for cash and Spann and Fowler could be on the market as well with several years left on their deal.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2012 8:53:55 GMT -5
Id rather trade Ellsbury for Belt and Crick. We might have to take on Zito if we want that, but that wouldnt bother me.
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Post by SlugLife on Oct 8, 2012 6:44:36 GMT -5
How about trading Ellsbury to Philly for Darin Ruf?
This team needs a young bat at first base, and Ruf is blocked by Ryan Howard.
Maybe Ellsbury for Ruf and Sebastian Valle or Trevor May? Just a thought.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 10, 2012 15:06:07 GMT -5
Ruf is Mauro Gomez, so that would be horrendous even with May who looks like a #3 at best.
Scott Lauber wondered if Texas would trade Holland for Ellsbury. Another trade that makes no sense. We dont need another underperforming 4+ SIERA starter.
Various guys i would like to see come here in a Ellsbury trade:
Andrus Olt Robert Stephenson Shelby Miller Carlos Martinez Alex Meyer Bauer Archie Bradley Skaggs James Paxton Jesse Biddle Brandon Belt Kyle Crick Eric Hosmer Yordano Ventura AJ Cole Michael Choice (MIles Head - no chance) JR Graham Julio Teheran
I tried to include any team that seamed like a possible destination for Ellsbury. Obviously some of these names are a lot less realistic than others.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 10, 2012 15:35:13 GMT -5
My preference, if it is necessary to trade him for a young pitcher, is Randall Delgado of the Atlanta Braves. I simply LOVE this kid's stuff. I like him more than Teheran.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 10, 2012 15:51:58 GMT -5
My preference, if it is necessary to trade him for a young pitcher, is Randall Delgado of the Atlanta Braves. I simply LOVE this kid's stuff. I like him more than Teheran. Same actually. I totally forgot about him because he was quiet in the MLB this year. Good call. Mike Minor would be interesting too. Teheran fell off of Sickel's top 50 pitching specs. I'm not big on him anymore but i feel like he may have been pitching a bit hurt this year. Should be interesting.
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Post by jdb on Oct 10, 2012 17:14:57 GMT -5
It probably should be mentioned Dempster nixed a deal to the Braves that had Delgado going to the Cubs. They have young pitching to spare. It will be interesting to see hom the CF market develops. Bourne and Victorino are FAs while Spann and Fowler could be on the block too.
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Post by welovewally on Oct 13, 2012 21:40:45 GMT -5
I think the Red Sox should try to sign Ellsbury this off season. If they can't they should trade him before the season starts. I don't think that his value will be as high as it could be this off season but I think it will be higher then at the trade deadline as a rental player. The only other real alternative is to let him play out the year, then hope to sign him or, take the compensation when he signs elsewhere which seems to me like getting less then what we could get by trading him this off season if we can't sign him now. Would the Red Sox have to make him a qualifying offer to get compensation? Would he accept a 1 year qualifying offer?
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 14, 2012 9:31:25 GMT -5
Another reason to move Ells in the offseason if they can't sign him long term, is the new CBA rule on compensation.
A team trading for him at the deadline better hope it can sign Ellsbury post season because it will not receive a compensation pick.
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Post by dmaineah on Oct 15, 2012 6:35:43 GMT -5
The Red Sox should keep Ellsbury and build around him, Pedroia & Middlebrooks with an eye towards Bogaerts & Brentz as well.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 15, 2012 7:16:21 GMT -5
The Red Sox should keep Ellsbury and build around him, Pedroia & Middlebrooks with an eye towards Bogaerts & Brentz as well. In a perfect world I would agree. But in a perfect world, would Scott Boras exist? I love Jacoby Ellsbury. BUT we must find out over the next month WHAT Boras and Ellsbury WANT, and be able to react. I'd offer him 6 years at 15 million per year, but would stop there. Depending on their reaction: -- falling over laughing? Trade him -- anger? Trade him -- no response? Trade him -- a willingness to negotiate? Take 4 weeks and try to work it out, or...........you guessed it........Trade him Once Ellsbury decided to align himself with Scott Boras, it was ALL about the biggest contract. One super year does not equal 20 million per year! If this is what they are looking for......Trade him!!
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Post by jdb on Oct 15, 2012 9:35:20 GMT -5
What does everyone think of the Holland rumor? I think it would be a good return and give us some flexibility to make another deal. He is under contract for four more years with two options so he could appeal to small markets (KC Butler or Gordon?). It looks like he had some injuries this year that could be cause for his drop off. Shoulder fatigue and a virus that caused him to lose 20 Lbs.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 15, 2012 13:07:58 GMT -5
The Red Sox should keep Ellsbury and build around him, Pedroia & Middlebrooks with an eye towards Bogaerts & Brentz as well. Ellsbury is a worse fielder than Bradley, so say we extend Ellsbury and put him in LF. His range is no longer an asset at home, and his value becomes tied to his offense. His power would now be vital to living up to his contract, and he's shown his power in only one season. 2011 was an outlier that drove Ellsbury's price up too high. He doesnt hit well enough to play LF making $20M. It makes no sense to keep him with Bradley in our system.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 15, 2012 14:11:12 GMT -5
What does everyone think of the Holland rumor? I think it would be a good return and give us some flexibility to make another deal. He is under contract for four more years with two options so he could appeal to small markets (KC Butler or Gordon?). It looks like he had some injuries this year that could be cause for his drop off. Shoulder fatigue and a virus that caused him to lose 20 Lbs. I missed it I guess. What Holland rumor?
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 15, 2012 19:59:41 GMT -5
Speculation on the part of Scott Lauber in the Boston Herald a few days ago discussing Ellsbury possibilities and wondering if Holland would be considered by Texas.
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Post by welovewally on Oct 15, 2012 22:31:06 GMT -5
The Red Sox should keep Ellsbury and build around him, Pedroia & Middlebrooks with an eye towards Bogaerts & Brentz as well. Ellsbury is a worse fielder than Bradley, so say we extend Ellsbury and put him in LF. His range is no longer an asset at home, and his value becomes tied to his offense. His power would now be vital to living up to his contract, and he's shown his power in only one season. 2011 was an outlier that drove Ellsbury's price up too high. He doesnt hit well enough to play LF making $20M. It makes no sense to keep him with Bradley in our system. Ellsbury is a worse fielder then Bradley? When did that happen? And who is going to pay him $20mil per year? I doubt the Red Sox do that. I'm all for signing him and making him part of the core of the team but I think the Red Sox trade him before going to $20 mil per year. And Bradley might be good but he also might only be a borderline Major League Player. Its to early to tell. Its certainly to early to be calling him a better player then Ellsbury.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 16, 2012 7:20:38 GMT -5
An Ellsbury for Andrus trade by itself won't happen because Ells has just one year left before becoming a free agent. Scott Boras just complicates it even more.
Now........if you really want to bring Elvis to Beantown, I have a wild way of possibly accomplishing it, but you may not like it.
Ellsbury and Jon Lester to Texas for Andrus and Derek Holland!
THEN.................
We move Jose Iglesias and Clay Buchholz to Arizona for Justin Upton and Ian Kennedy
THEN..................... we sign Shane Victorino for 2 years to play center in 2013 and right in 2014 when Bradley is ready.
At this point, we have a young, all star shortstop and young middle-order bat heading into the next 6 to 8 years. Our rotation couldn't possibly be any worse than last year and the 3 Musketeers (De La Rosa, Webster, and Barnes) will be in Boston in one to two years.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 16, 2012 8:45:58 GMT -5
Sign me up, Steve. Now sell Towers and Nolan.
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