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9/19-9/22 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 20, 2016 21:27:06 GMT -5
Sox win. MVP Mookie with 200 hits and another stellar game in a tough environment. Lovin it.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 20, 2016 21:29:39 GMT -5
What a nice, solid, low drama (relatively!) win - great pitching, timely hitting, three Bs - B(ig Papi), Betts, Bradley came up big. Love it - team is rolling along beautifully! Great to see ERod come up big. I feel much better/about with him than Drew P.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 20, 2016 21:30:17 GMT -5
Man, are the Red Sox ever going to lose? (sssshhhhhh! don't "Dave O'Brien" it!)
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 20, 2016 21:34:14 GMT -5
Great pitching and the three-run home run ... fitting way to win in Earl Weaver's baseball home.
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Post by huskies15 on Sept 20, 2016 21:43:36 GMT -5
One more win in Baltimore and the Orioles are pretty much dusted. Let's get it.
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Post by soxjim on Sept 20, 2016 21:53:09 GMT -5
This team is nothing without Big Papi. He gives us one huge bat within the top five in the order. His overall numbers this year - just super supreme incredible.
I do think he deserves MVP mention but shouldn't get it. He is imo no different than pitchers that get MVP votes. However for this team he is right in the middle of the order and a left-handed bat - a disrupter vs the other pretty good to tremendous righties we have.
I'm gonna miss that lefty big bat in the middle of the order. -- So will the bleacher section Baltimore Oriole fans.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 20, 2016 22:12:08 GMT -5
Nice win tonight.
When rodriguez's delivery is in sync, his stuff is electric. I thought he did a great job of hitting different spots and keeping the Baltimore hitters guessing.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 20, 2016 23:14:56 GMT -5
Toronto smashing the Mariners, don't sleep on the Jays.
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Post by klostrophobic on Sept 20, 2016 23:50:01 GMT -5
Blue Jays have almost no chance of winning the division, but they're definitely making the wild card game—and probably against the Orioles.
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danr
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Post by danr on Sept 20, 2016 23:58:41 GMT -5
yeah...it's too bad he went 1 for 12 in his only playoff appearance...just curious was that a negative WAR performance? Maybe. Just like Ted Williams going 5 for 30 without an extra-base hit in his only playoff appearance really showed what an unclutch stiff he was. You are both wrong. His only post season appearance was in the 1946 WS. That's when St. Louis unveiled the shift - the first time it was used. Williams went 5 for 25 in the seven games with 4 walks. I saw Williams (on TV) hit his last HR in his last AB. His last season in 1960 was somewhat comparable to Big Papi's this year. He hit .312 with 29 HRs. I think that as a pure hitter he still is the best of all-time, or possibly second to Ruth.
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Post by Coreno on Sept 21, 2016 0:06:07 GMT -5
Ortiz has almost no shot of winning MVP because as a DH you have to be so much better than everyone else offensively, but he will probably get at least some votes. However, he almost has to win the Hank Aaron award, right?
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Sept 21, 2016 0:40:07 GMT -5
Maybe. Just like Ted Williams going 5 for 30 without an extra-base hit in his only playoff appearance really showed what an unclutch stiff he was. You are both wrong. His only post season appearance was in the 1946 WS. That's when St. Louis unveiled the shift - the first time it was used. Williams we nt 5 for 25 in the seven games with 4 walks. I saw Williams (on TV) hit his last HR in his last AB. His last season in 1960 was somewhat comparable to Big Papi's this year. He hit .312 with 29 HRs. I think tha t as a pure hitter he still is the best of all-time, or possibly second to Ruth. My kid brother was selling bug juice at Ted's last game. Small crowd and most knew what it meant. Possibly equal to Ruth, but possibly ahead. Missing so many prime years, we will never know. I am glad Ruth was a Red Sock and I wish the Sox would embrace the fact big time. He ended his career back in Boston where he began it and matured in it, though as a Brave. We have a valid claim on his contributions to Boston baseball. Why hide it under a bushel?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 21, 2016 0:47:55 GMT -5
Is there any reason Shaw is hitting 5th and not JBJ? JF believes that JBJ hits better at the bottom of the order because he left him there for so long when he was hitting so great. I quickly checked that when I did his home / road and LHP / RHP splits by hot and cold. It sure looked like once you adjusted for hot / cold, there was no relationship. Nor was there any pattern of becoming hot or going cold when he was moved in the order. I may run the actual numbers this weekend.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 21, 2016 0:57:21 GMT -5
Time to start watching the magic number, with 11 games left: 6 for the playoffs; 8 for the division, with 3 of the games counting double.
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Post by voiceofreason on Sept 21, 2016 1:48:59 GMT -5
The road warrior Sox are now 15-7 on the road since 8/15. I always expected Price to come around and pitch to his potential but the bullpen is a pleasant surprise after struggling all season.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 21, 2016 8:23:27 GMT -5
Farrell is most likely waiting for the clinch before resting people for the post season. Though he has given the older vets a blow, the last being Pedey last night. With four catchers on the roster, he can give Leon a break, which he's done.
Mookie looks fresh and is really contributing big time. Plus, he's young and should have the stamina. Xander is the only guy who maybe can use a day off. But he's been productive and shows no sign of slowing down in the field.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 21, 2016 9:14:53 GMT -5
The road warrior Sox are now 15-7 on the road since 8/15. I always expected Price to come around and pitch to his potential but the bullpen is a pleasant surprise after struggling all season. I can't remember a season where the expanded rosters has helped so much. Robby Scott and Kelly have helped win several games in particular.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 21, 2016 9:34:56 GMT -5
The road warrior Sox are now 15-7 on the road since 8/15. I always expected Price to come around and pitch to his potential but the bullpen is a pleasant surprise after struggling all season. I can't remember a season where the expanded rosters has helped so much. Robby Scott and Kelly have helped win several games in particular. Can't look it up right now, but I would think teams with bullpen problems benefit most from roster expansion historically.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Sept 21, 2016 9:47:37 GMT -5
I can't remember a season where the expanded rosters has helped so much. Robby Scott and Kelly have helped win several games in particular. Can't look it up right now, but I would think teams with bullpen problems benefit most from roster expansion historically. And perhaps not coincidentally, Showalter has just come out as not liking the September expanded rosters. Wonder if he feels that way generally, or is it just the fact that the Sox may be getting differential benefit from it right now? Regarding Papi's impending retirement, to me the big issue, more than the loss of production itself, is the fact that he is THE LH bat in the top middle of the lineup. A couple of days ago with Papi out the Sox's top was Pedroia/Bogaerts/Betts/Ramirez, all RH, with Shaw/JBJ/Leon/Benintendi at the bottom. It was very convenient and easy to matchup-pitch that lineup when the pens came into the game. Next season we expect JBJ, quite possibly Shaw, Benintendi, and perhaps a hopefully somewhat revitalized Sandoval competing for spots in the lineup. Somebody in there, preferably two, need to hit in the top/middle of the lineup to give some balance and a RH or two need to move down. Maybe something like: Pedroia Benintendi Betts Ramirez JBJ Bogaerts Shaw Leon/Vazquez Sandoval or switch Sandoval and Shaw. The obvious question is whether or not Benintendi could be entrusted with the #2 spot so early, but I think if JBJ is going to challenge for 30 HR's in the prime of his career he is the logical choice to bat #5 in 2017, and Shaw and Sandoval don't strike me as top-of-the-order bats. If someone like Incarnation were signed to replace Papi, that would just exacerbate the problem because it would be another RH bat to insert into the top/middle of the lineup.
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 21, 2016 10:03:03 GMT -5
I doubt Xander will bat 6th next year.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 21, 2016 10:11:31 GMT -5
Farrell is most likely waiting for the clinch before resting people for the post season. Though he has given the older vets a blow, the last being Pedey last night. With four catchers on the roster, he can give Leon a break, which he's done. Mookie looks fresh and is really contributing big time. Plus, he's young and should have the stamina. Xander is the only guy who maybe can use a day off. But he's been productive and shows no sign of slowing down in the field. On August 21 Sandy Leon was hitting .386 / .438 / .648 in 162 PA. He had started 38 of 63 games ( 60%) as catcher since his first GS, plus one as a DH, and appeared in another 6 (4 times as PH-C, once as a PH only, and once as a late inning C only). Before August 16 he had started 3 straight days just 3 times: July 3 through 5, and July 26 through 28 (including a trip to the West Coast without an off day) From the 16th to 19th he he had started two night games in Baltimore, flown to Detroit and DH'd the next day, then started the next night. From the 21st to 24th he caught 4 straight days for the first time all season. He got an off day and did it again. He had a 472 OPS in the last 7 games of that stretch. Since then: PH GS off day flight to Oakland 3 GS, including day game after night game PH 2 GS off day flight to Toronto ... He hit .333 / .407 / .375 in that stretch ... He started the 1st and 3rd games in Toronto and went 3/8, 2B, BB. He pinch-hit and caught in inning of the middle game of the Orioles series. In the first game he went 2-3, SF, in the last 0-3, but the team scored 12 and 0 runs respectively, so it's hard to judge how well he was doing. He then started three more straight days, finishing with a day game after a night game, easily his toughest work load of the season. He went 2/12, 2B, while we scored 20 runs in the first three games of the Yankees sweep. He got the Sunday night game off, but he's 0/8, 4 SO in the first two games of this series. He's .230 / .292 / .276 since August 21. He has started 22 of 28 games ( 79%), and appeared in 3 more (2 as PH, 1 as PH-C). CV needs to start tonight. No more 4 straight games, no more day games after night games, and I would try to avoid 3 straight games until his bat comes back to life. He's not better than CV when he's hitting like this.
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 21, 2016 10:15:57 GMT -5
Can't look it up right now, but I would think teams with bullpen problems benefit most from roster expansion historically. And perhaps not coincidentally, Showalter has just come out as not liking the September expanded rosters. Wonder if he feels that way generally, or is it just the fact that the Sox may be getting differential benefit from it right now? Regarding Papi's impending retirement, to me the big issue, more than the loss of production itself, is the fact that he is THE LH bat in the top middle of the lineup. A couple of days ago with Papi out the Sox's top was Pedroia/Bogaerts/Betts/Ramirez, all RH, with Shaw/JBJ/Leon/Benintendi at the bottom. It was very convenient and easy to matchup-pitch that lineup when the pens came into the game. Next season we expect JBJ, quite possibly Shaw, Benintendi, and perhaps a hopefully somewhat revitalized Sandoval competing for spots in the lineup. Somebody in there, preferably two, need to hit in the top/middle of the lineup to give some balance and a RH or two need to move down. Maybe something like: Pedroia Benintendi Betts Ramirez JBJ Bogaerts Shaw Leon/Vazquez Sandoval or switch Sandoval and Shaw. The obvious question is whether or not Benintendi could be entrusted with the #2 spot so early, but I think if JBJ is going to challenge for 30 HR's in the prime of his career he is the logical choice to bat #5 in 2017, and Shaw and Sandoval don't strike me as top-of-the-order bats. If someone like Incarnation were signed to replace Papi, that would just exacerbate the problem because it would be another RH bat to insert into the top/middle of the lineup. This is an argument for Beltran on a 1-yr deal to DH. It makes some sense.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 21, 2016 10:30:16 GMT -5
And perhaps not coincidentally, Showalter has just come out as not liking the September expanded rosters. Wonder if he feels that way generally, or is it just the fact that the Sox may be getting differential benefit from it right now? Regarding Papi's impending retirement, to me the big issue, more than the loss of production itself, is the fact that he is THE LH bat in the top middle of the lineup. A couple of days ago with Papi out the Sox's top was Pedroia/Bogaerts/Betts/Ramirez, all RH, with Shaw/JBJ/Leon/Benintendi at the bottom. It was very convenient and easy to matchup-pitch that lineup when the pens came into the game. Next season we expect JBJ, quite possibly Shaw, Benintendi, and perhaps a hopefully somewhat revitalized Sandoval competing for spots in the lineup. Somebody in there, preferably two, need to hit in the top/middle of the lineup to give some balance and a RH or two need to move down. Maybe something like: Pedroia Benintendi Betts Ramirez JBJ Bogaerts Shaw Leon/Vazquez Sandoval or switch Sandoval and Shaw. The obvious question is whether or not Benintendi could be entrusted with the #2 spot so early, but I think if JBJ is going to challenge for 30 HR's in the prime of his career he is the logical choice to bat #5 in 2017, and Shaw and Sandoval don't strike me as top-of-the-order bats. If someone like Incarnation were signed to replace Papi, that would just exacerbate the problem because it would be another RH bat to insert into the top/middle of the lineup. This is an argument for Beltran on a 1-yr deal to DH. It makes some sense. What? Beltran's OBP the last 3 years: .339, .301, .337. As a lineup guy, he has to fill Shaw's role, and maybe he does so a bit better. But that takes your best corner INF glove out of the lineup. And there's no room on the bench for a Sandoval / Shaw platoon partner if you sign a DH and don't dump one of them. If he's replacing Sandoval, then the upgrade of Beltran over Sandoval offensively has to be significant when compared to the defensive downgrade at 1B, and the offensive downgrade of Hanley at 1B versus Hanley at DH (which has been an actual 0.9 WAR in 110 PA at DH, I'll point out for about the 5th time). I actually think the team is better with Sandoval at 1B and Hanley at DH than with Beltran at DH and Hanley at 1B, probably easily so, and the cost of this sideways or even backwards move is paying virtually all of Sandoval's remaining salary and getting literally nothing from it, versus getting a pleasantly surprising return on what's left (surprising to most people, q.v., Hanley Ramirez, 2016-). FG just ran an article showing that the 2016 Sox have had the second best offense in MLB since 1998. Replace Ortiz with Sandoval and it's still the best offense in MLB, especially when you have more PA from Benintendi and Leon. I actually have the exact same lineup as anicentsoxfogey for next year, and the reason why someone as great as Xander Bogaerts is hitting 6th is that he's only the 4th to 6th best hitter on the team, and after you arrange the better guys, 6th is the logical place (since Pedroia needs to hit leadoff and Benny 2nd gives you your R/L balance).
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Post by sox fan in nc on Sept 21, 2016 10:37:58 GMT -5
Toronto smashing the Mariners, don't sleep on the Jays. I'm actually hoping for a 2nd place AL finish & play Cleveland in the ALDS. The Indians are talking about using a 2 man rotation (Kluber/Bauer) in the playoffs. Let Texas play Toronto. Best case is Baltimore beats Toronto in the WC game.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 21, 2016 10:53:35 GMT -5
I'm actually hoping for a 2nd place AL finish & play Cleveland in the ALDS. The Indians are talking about using a 2 man rotation (Kluber/Bauer) in the playoffs. Let Texas play Toronto. Best case is Baltimore beats Toronto in the WC game. I agree, that would be the best case scenario by far. The Blue Jays are crazy talented and they actually kind of sort of mirror the Red Sox. I would like to avoid them at all if possible.
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