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2016-2017 Red Sox Offseason (Non-Manager) Discussion
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 8, 2016 17:41:51 GMT -5
Beltran has already been given a chance to play first base last year with the Yankees last year. He flat out refused, fyi. He's a DH only at this point.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 8, 2016 17:43:43 GMT -5
Morales is a DH only guy also and will cost close to 10 million, so what's your point? Injury prone? He's played 151, 145, 109, 133 and 155 games the last 5 years. Sorry but that's not what I would call injury prone. That's a ton of games. Sorry the facts prove you wrong, yet again. If you don't like him due to age that's fine, but there's no reason to start making false statements. Don't you get it that an age 39 season when you hit .295 and 29 HRs means he's an exception to father time, just like Ortiz. I'm not saying his Bat is at Ortiz's level, but he is aging very well just like Ortiz. The last three years alone say that he IS injury prone and injuries don't get better due to age. This is the current facts. Morales can play first base, he just hasn't needed to the last couple of years because Hosmer is a better defender for the Royals. Beltran has averaged over 132 games the last 3 seasons, with most of his missed time coming 3 years ago. That's like one short DL stint per year on average. He just played 155 games last year! You might have a point if the last three years were 155, 133, 109, but they were 109, 133, and 155. If he gives us 132 games I would be happy. Beltran played 69 games in the OF last year and has played 1B for one game, haha.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 8, 2016 17:50:04 GMT -5
I wonder if Ian Desmond would be open to play 3B. Probably not someone the Red Sox should be in on, but it just entered my mind.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 8, 2016 17:52:05 GMT -5
The last three years alone say that he IS injury prone and injuries don't get better due to age. This is the current facts. Morales can play first base, he just hasn't needed to the last couple of years because Hosmer is a better defender for the Royals. Beltran has averaged over 132 games the last 3 seasons, with most of his missed time coming 3 years ago. That's like one short DL stint per year on average. He just played 155 games last year! You might have a point if the last three years were 155, 133, 109, but they were 109, 133, and 155. If he gives us 132 games I would be happy. Beltran played 69 games in the OF last year and has played 1B for one game, haha. For 10+ million for full-time DH, that should get you more than 130+ games.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 8, 2016 17:58:26 GMT -5
Beltran has averaged over 132 games the last 3 seasons, with most of his missed time coming 3 years ago. That's like one short DL stint per year on average. He just played 155 games last year! You might have a point if the last three years were 155, 133, 109, but they were 109, 133, and 155. If he gives us 132 games I would be happy. Beltran played 69 games in the OF last year and has played 1B for one game, haha. For 10+ million for full-time DH, that should get you more than 130+ games. Yea your so right. We should pay EE the 5 years and 125 million he wants .
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 8, 2016 18:02:22 GMT -5
For 10+ million for full-time DH, that should get you more than 130+ games. Yea your so right. We should pay EE the 5 years and 125 million he wants . Dave Dombrowski isn't going in that direction it sounds like so really there's no point in discussing this.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 8, 2016 18:12:35 GMT -5
Beltran hit 29 HRs last year and Morales hit 30, but Beltran had an OPS 55 points higher. He's just a more complete hitter. Why so much dislike for a HOF talent in Beltran? Because he's 40. All players fall off a cliff eventually. NM
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 8, 2016 18:15:27 GMT -5
Because he's 40. All players fall off a cliff eventually. NM Well everyone except Ortiz I suppose.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 8, 2016 20:48:27 GMT -5
Well everyone except Ortiz I suppose. Ortiz is the exception that generally proves the rule. Besides, isn't it fun to talk about how players fall off a cliff when they age and then flash to those ridiculous numbers David Ortiz put up in his final season at age 40? .315, 38 homers, 127 RBIs, 48 double on bad wheels, .402 OBP, .620 SA. Absolutely ridiculous and all the more fun to recall as time goes by.
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 9, 2016 11:41:07 GMT -5
The Sox really don't need to do much with this roster beyond adding an arm or two to the pen, as DD said. If the price isn't prohibitive a power arm for the 8th and another lefty. The market will dictate the addition of an 8th inning guy while the lefty should be easy to acquire. I believe Kelly is a decent bet to be that 8th inning guy if DD fails to acquire 1 and Koji should be retained if the price is right, giving them 2 options. I'm also bullish on Carson Smith coming back and having an impact in the 2nd half. That might be wishful thinking but that's me, forever the optimist. In regards to the corners and DH the Sox have enough talent to expect someone will step up and earn playing time. Between that and properly platooning players it shouldn't drag the team down as others here have mentioned. Yes what they currently have going into the season may not be exciting but the fact that they get the offense that they do from many other spots means they can get by with limited numbers here. What is exciting and the reason for not spending on the corners is what the Sox have in Moncada, Devers and to a lesser extent Travis. Those guys are the future and the future isn't far off. Travis and Moncada should be part of the equation next year with Devers following at some point the following. They shouldn't be blocked by any additions and they are the key to keeping the core intact. By having those guys on the cheap it gives the Sox the ability to sign MB, XB, JBJ etc. Go ahead and sign Beltran for 1/2 years on the cheap but don't go overboard on an EE, makes no sense long term. And don't trade our top prospects for a bad contract. As far as the rotation goes there is plenty of upside and depth to be very good. I don't expect Porcello to have another Cy type season but I also don't expect him to regress too much, he is entering his prime and should at the least be a solid #2. Price will not have back to back bad years and I do expect him to be a true ace again. Erod could be very good and at the least a better than average #3. As for the rest it is a bit of a crapshoot but they have all shown the ability to pitch very well. On top of the first 6 the Sox have enough depth at AAA to weather an injury. At catcher the Sox still have 2 of the better prospects in baseball, CV and BS, to be hopeful that one of them will emerge. In the mean time Sandy Leon is more than adequate to be the #1. His bat will most likely regress but the rest of his game is fine for the near future. The strength of the team is @ MI and OF. Not much need to get into just how good the Sox are here but name a team with a better 5 guys than JBJ, MB, AB, XB and Pedey. Good luck, the combination of D and offensive productivity is ridiculous. Add to that a very strong group of backups and you have a core that is enough to keep you in contention. As usual for me I want to preach patience. A few years ago the Sox went out and spent poorly on Hanley and Panda. Hanley has worked out to a degree, Panda not so much. Hopefully his dedication to his health will payoff on the field, that's a big hope but who knows. The Sox need a game plan that takes into consideration signing the core guys long term asap. There is enough talent to keep the Sox contenders while waiting for the next wave of prospects to arrive. Those prospects and their relative cost will play a big part in keeping the young core together. One thing we all know from following baseball is that performance varies and injuries happen. So along the same lines of being patient with prospects I lean towards patience with this roster and waiting to see what this team needs and addressing it during the season and at the trade deadline. The future is very bright, as in blindingly bright. I hope DD shares that thought and doesn't screw it up trying to put an all star at every position. In a few years we might have close to an all star at every position, home grown no less.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 9, 2016 11:54:47 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Nov 9, 2016 12:24:00 GMT -5
There aren't really any stud set-up men available in free agency this year. It's either top-end closers (Chapman, Janssen, Melancon) or fringier second/third-tier types who either lack a long track record, are merely good but not great, or are coming off injury/underperformance (Travis Wood, Neftali Feliz, Brett Cecil, Ziegler, Joe Blanton, Greg Holland, Sergio Romo, Santiago Casilla, etc).
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Post by Guidas on Nov 9, 2016 12:51:09 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 9, 2016 13:53:10 GMT -5
Toughness factor. Let's sign him to a 7 year deal. We need that. Our pitching staff's biggest shortcoming was obviously toughness. For position players, is Mookie tough enough ? Maybe we should unload him before it's exposed.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2016 15:25:13 GMT -5
Lol Cafardo is at it again with his mind numbing articles. He admits that it would be a bad move before he admits a imaginary intangible this time.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,016
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 9, 2016 17:17:57 GMT -5
DDo wants to keep Abad, which means there's room for just one more reliever, and he wants someone better than Koji, by which he quite probably means someone capable of pitching more often and more innings. Which, if you're keeping Abad, makes sense. My plan was to non-tender Abad, creating room for two relievers, re-sign Koji at great bang-for-buck, and trade for a LHR who was even better than Ross and who could pitch in the 7th and sometimes the 8th. I like my plan better. The upgrade from Abad to my hypothetical LHR is way better than his upgrade from Koji to whomever, and the cost may well be less.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 9, 2016 17:51:40 GMT -5
You do know that Beltran played about as many games in the field as he did at DH last year, right? Yeah and he couldn't move out there. I would want Chris Young in the outfield over Beltran by a large margin. Well, his defensive ratings are still better than Morales's were, and Morales was theoretically playing an easier position. Both are essentially DH-only. I'd rather give up nothing (not even a draft pick) for either than have to give up real prospects for Martinez (which would cost someone in the top-5, and that's not remotely worth it).
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Post by telson13 on Nov 9, 2016 17:56:15 GMT -5
There aren't really any stud set-up men available in free agency this year. It's either top-end closers (Chapman, Janssen, Melancon) or fringier second/third-tier types who either lack a long track record, are merely good but not great, or are coming off injury/underperformance (Travis Wood, Neftali Feliz, Brett Cecil, Ziegler, Joe Blanton, Greg Holland, Sergio Romo, Santiago Casilla, etc). Holland is the guy to go after there. Not sure how the Melancon market will shape up, but he's an outside target if he gets the shaft for not being transcendent, just really, really good.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 9, 2016 17:57:34 GMT -5
DDo wants to keep Abad, which means there's room for just one more reliever, and he wants someone better than Koji, by which he quite probably means someone capable of pitching more often and more innings. Which, if you're keeping Abad, makes sense. My plan was to non-tender Abad, creating room for two relievers, re-sign Koji at great bang-for-buck, and trade for a LHR who was even better than Ross and who could pitch in the 7th and sometimes the 8th. I like my plan better. The upgrade from Abad to my hypothetical LHR is way better than his upgrade from Koji to whomever, and the cost may well be less. Koji is definitely preferable to Abad, who just flat-out stinks in anything other than garbage time.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 9, 2016 18:02:57 GMT -5
He loves "the toughness factor." I swear, he's really just a collection of a million monkeys at a million typewriters, making this ish up.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2016 18:23:44 GMT -5
Yeah and he couldn't move out there. I would want Chris Young in the outfield over Beltran by a large margin. Well, his defensive ratings are still better than Morales's were, and Morales was theoretically playing an easier position. Both are essentially DH-only. I'd rather give up nothing (not even a draft pick) for either than have to give up real prospects for Martinez (which would cost someone in the top-5, and that's not remotely worth it). The off season plan for the Tigers is to shed payroll and get younger. I really don't think Martinez costs a top 5 prospect in his last arbitration year. I really don't. I think a package of Shaw and Dubon (a top 10 prospect) could get the ball rolling there. JD Martinez is one of the most obvious trade options of the Tigers this off-season.
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Post by jmei on Nov 9, 2016 18:36:03 GMT -5
There aren't really any stud set-up men available in free agency this year. It's either top-end closers (Chapman, Janssen, Melancon) or fringier second/third-tier types who either lack a long track record, are merely good but not great, or are coming off injury/underperformance (Travis Wood, Neftali Feliz, Brett Cecil, Ziegler, Joe Blanton, Greg Holland, Sergio Romo, Santiago Casilla, etc). Holland is the guy to go after there. Not sure how the Melancon market will shape up, but he's an outside target if he gets the shaft for not being transcendent, just really, really good. It sounds like they want a sure thing eighth-inning arm. Holland doesn't really fit that description--he's relatively high-risk, high-reward. Reports from his workout were that his velo was still below his historical norms.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2016 18:48:55 GMT -5
For everyone's information, Chapman's agent is already asking for 100 million according to MLB network radio. Doesn't mean he'll get it but that's what he's already asking for.
Anyone think Chapman is a awesome option now?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2016 19:39:35 GMT -5
Holland is the guy to go after there. Not sure how the Melancon market will shape up, but he's an outside target if he gets the shaft for not being transcendent, just really, really good. It sounds like they want a sure thing eighth-inning arm. Holland doesn't really fit that description--he's relatively high-risk, high-reward. Reports from his workout were that his velo was still below his historical norms. I don't see a better option in the free agent market other than Holland. Maybe the Sox need to go outside the organization and get a Jake MgGee or David Robertson and take that contract for nothing.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2016 22:51:54 GMT -5
Holland is the guy to go after there. Not sure how the Melancon market will shape up, but he's an outside target if he gets the shaft for not being transcendent, just really, really good. It sounds like they want a sure thing eighth-inning arm. Holland doesn't really fit that description--he's relatively high-risk, high-reward. Reports from his workout were that his velo was still below his historical norms. www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/greg-holland-free-agent-rumors.html?fv-home=true&post-id=76852Per a tweet from Rob Bradford, the Sox are showing heavy interest in Holland. I personally think that the Sox are the favorites to land Holland. He can close on Kinbrel's off days and be a valuable set up man. I'm less worried about the lack of velocity being so far away from spring training.
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