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Post by grandsalami on Dec 4, 2016 13:46:35 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 4, 2016 16:06:03 GMT -5
I am in favor of the cheap options like an Alvarez or Tomas. IMO the platoon and revolving of players thru DH is the best way to go next yr. With the make up of the current roster and prospects coming up that might be ready to contribute the Sox should be fine. Heck they might even be able to convince Pedey to take a partial day off and DH once in a while. The Sox could get lucky with Tomas. He is still young and at 25 had a good power season in his second yr out of Cuba. The players from Cuba have shown in the past a tendency to need some time to be productive in MLB. So maybe they get lucky on a low cost guy who could excel in Fenway, in a better lineup and some maturation with the help of Chili. Price doesn't seem to bad for a guy entering his prime and just hit 31 hr.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 4, 2016 17:08:22 GMT -5
The dumbest thing one can do is judge a player's defensive skills by a highlight reel (or play) - remember Gary Matthews, Jr.? I've seen no evidence that Benintendi can play CF in the majors. He was minus in LF last year (small sample). His throwing was awful, both weak and misdirected; and it didn't take long for word to get around, you even had Cleveland taking advantage of his arm with Roberto Perez. Roberto Perez. If the Red Sox move Bradley (something I would actively pursue), Betts is your CF; if you look at the Statcast data over the last two years, there's a lot of evidence that he's a better OF than Bradley already You say you can't judge a player by one play but then name one play where Benintendi got complacent in LF in the playoffs last year. Benintendi will be fine in Lf next year because he will get more experience out there. He can move and has a good enough arm for LF. There's a lot of evidence that Mookie was the best defensive player in baseball last year, hence why he got the award for defensive player of the year in baseball last year. JBJ had his worst year defensively last year and still was a gold glove finalist. He's fine, the Sox need two plus defenders in Fenway Rf and Cf anyways.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 4, 2016 17:56:15 GMT -5
I am in favor of the cheap options like an Alvarez or Tomas. IMO the platoon and revolving of players thru DH is the best way to go next yr. With the make up of the current roster and prospects coming up that might be ready to contribute the Sox should be fine. Heck they might even be able to convince Pedey to take a partial day off and DH once in a while. The Sox could get lucky with Tomas. He is still young and at 25 had a good power season in his second yr out of Cuba. The players from Cuba have shown in the past a tendency to need some time to be productive in MLB. So maybe they get lucky on a low cost guy who could excel in Fenway, in a better lineup and some maturation with the help of Chili. Price doesn't seem to bad for a guy entering his prime and just hit 31 hr. I only want Tomas if Arizona takes Rusney back (highly unlikely). Alvarez seems like the best cheap option to go after, it's just good bad that he's a DH option only at this point.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 4, 2016 18:13:07 GMT -5
The dumbest thing one can do is judge a player's defensive skills by a highlight reel (or play) - remember Gary Matthews, Jr.? I've seen no evidence that Benintendi can play CF in the majors. He was minus in LF last year (small sample). His throwing was awful, both weak and misdirected; and it didn't take long for word to get around, you even had Cleveland taking advantage of his arm with Roberto Perez. Roberto Perez. If the Red Sox move Bradley (something I would actively pursue), Betts is your CF; if you look at the Statcast data over the last two years, there's a lot of evidence that he's a better OF than Bradley already The dumbest thing you can do is use the publically available defensive stats when there is only a tiny sample size. Absolutely no stock should be put into Benintendi's MLB defensive stats.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 4, 2016 18:41:26 GMT -5
The dumbest thing one can do is judge a player's defensive skills by a highlight reel (or play) - remember Gary Matthews, Jr.? I've seen no evidence that Benintendi can play CF in the majors. He was minus in LF last year (small sample). His throwing was awful, both weak and misdirected; and it didn't take long for word to get around, you even had Cleveland taking advantage of his arm with Roberto Perez. Roberto Perez. If the Red Sox move Bradley (something I would actively pursue), Betts is your CF; if you look at the Statcast data over the last two years, there's a lot of evidence that he's a better OF than Bradley already The dumbest thing you can do is use the publically available defensive stats when there is only a tiny sample size. Absolutely no stock should be put into Benintendi's MLB defensive stats. Thank you for saying this. I had just asked about this yesterday, and then watched quite a bit of film on Benintendi to see how he plays in center. His SSS in LF holds no weight, in my opinion. Basically all his scouting reports will say he's at least an average CF, and probably an above average one. What player has come to Boston and immediately put up plus defensive statistics while playing in front of the green monster? I'd be willing to bet that almost no one has. Who cares if DRS and UZR had him at negative value? He didn't even play two full months. If he had been promoted and put up a +5 would we be calling him the next JBJ in terms of defensive ability? I doubt it. His arm is about a 50, which is still perfectly fine given his range and instincts in the field. Even if he were to play a below average CF, his offense would more than make up for any lost value. Edit: spelling mistakes and context clarity.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 4, 2016 18:58:52 GMT -5
Yankees sign Matt holiday.
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Post by Costigan on Dec 4, 2016 19:03:28 GMT -5
Yankees sign Matt holiday. 1 year 13 million per Rosenthal.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 4, 2016 19:12:24 GMT -5
EE or Nap
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 4, 2016 19:15:44 GMT -5
Yankees sign Matt holiday. 1 year 13 million per Rosenthal. Just posted about this in the Non-Sox thread. At this point I'm hoping DD will utilize the DH spot to rest players.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 4, 2016 19:51:34 GMT -5
More likely Alvarez. If they're not spending the money on Beltran or Holliday they're not spending the money on Nap or especially Encarnacion.
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Post by Costigan on Dec 4, 2016 19:53:37 GMT -5
Valbuena is a name to keep in mind too. Great Pablo insurance and can DH as well. Should be a cheap 1 or 2 year deal.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 4, 2016 20:21:01 GMT -5
More likely Alvarez. If they're not spending the money on Beltran or Holliday they're not spending the money on Nap or especially Encarnacion. My money is on no one. I'd rather have Chris Young, Hanley and position players who need a day off play at DH. People are already scraping the bottom of the barrel and we already have Shaw, Sandoval, Hanley and Young who can play 1B or DH. There is no need to add a marginal upgrade at DH who isn't a sure thing.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 4, 2016 20:22:21 GMT -5
1 year 13 million per Rosenthal. Just posted about this in the Non-Sox thread. At this point I'm hoping DD will utilize the DH spot to rest players. The problem in this is that you're talking about the majority of ABs likely going to Sandoval while Shaw plays 3b. It's nice that Betts can DH if need be, but the fact of the matter is that the DH position is going to be a major downgrade from where it was. The Red Sox didn't just lose a DH. They lost the best offensive player in the AL. Replacing him with Sandoval is an extreme downgrade. Even an Alvarez/Young platoon is a big downgrade, but at least more palatable, although I'd rather they look into Carter or Tomas. They'll receive a major boost in LF from Benintendi being there, but I don't see a major boost at 3b unless Moncada bursts onto the scene early on. The downgrade in the DH spot won't be made up by the LF improvement and the 3b situation. I don't necessarily expect the pitching to be a lot better. I still think the Red Sox need a big bat, but with the luxury tax situation as it is, it doesn't seem very likely they'll get one.
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Post by classylefthander on Dec 4, 2016 20:25:18 GMT -5
The dumbest thing you can do is use the publically available defensive stats when there is only a tiny sample size. Absolutely no stock should be put into Benintendi's MLB defensive stats. Thank you for saying this. I had just asked about this yesterday, and then watched quite a bit of film on Benintendi to see how he plays in center. His SSS in LF holds no weight, in my opinion. Basically all his scouting reports will say he's at least an average CF, and probably an above average one. What player has come to Boston and immediately put up plus defensive statistics while playing in front of the green monster? I'd be willing to bet that almost no one has. Who cares if DRS and UZR had him at negative value? He didn't even play two full months. If he had been promoted and put up a +5 would we be calling him the next JBJ in terms of defensive ability? I doubt it. His arm is about a 50, which is still perfectly fine given his range and instincts in the field. Even if he were to play a below average CF, his offense would more than make up for any lost value. Edit: spelling mistakes and context clarity. Rusney was credited with DRS of +8 in 2015, but only 217 innings, and we know the rest.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 4, 2016 20:30:40 GMT -5
Just posted about this in the Non-Sox thread. At this point I'm hoping DD will utilize the DH spot to rest players. The problem in this is that you're talking about the majority of ABs likely going to Sandoval while Shaw plays 3b. It's nice that Betts can DH if need be, but the fact of the matter is that the DH position is going to be a major downgrade from where it was. The Red Sox didn't just lose a DH. They lost the best offensive player in the AL. Replacing him with Sandoval is an extreme downgrade. Even an Alvarez/Young platoon is a big downgrade, but at least more palatable, although I'd rather they look into Carter or Tomas. They'll receive a major boost in LF from Benintendi being there, but I don't see a major boost at 3b unless Moncada bursts onto the scene early on. The downgrade in the DH spot won't be made up by the LF improvement and the 3b situation. I don't necessarily expect the pitching to be a lot better. I still think the Red Sox need a big bat, but with the luxury tax situation as it is, it doesn't seem very likely they'll get one. It just doesn't make sense to have so many redundant players. You cannot have a roster with Shaw, Sandoval and a platoon DH on it. Then you have to send Shaw down and be stuck with Holt and Sandoval taking turns being terrible defensively at 3B.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 4, 2016 20:39:13 GMT -5
The problem in this is that you're talking about the majority of ABs likely going to Sandoval while Shaw plays 3b. It's nice that Betts can DH if need be, but the fact of the matter is that the DH position is going to be a major downgrade from where it was. The Red Sox didn't just lose a DH. They lost the best offensive player in the AL. Replacing him with Sandoval is an extreme downgrade. Even an Alvarez/Young platoon is a big downgrade, but at least more palatable, although I'd rather they look into Carter or Tomas. They'll receive a major boost in LF from Benintendi being there, but I don't see a major boost at 3b unless Moncada bursts onto the scene early on. The downgrade in the DH spot won't be made up by the LF improvement and the 3b situation. I don't necessarily expect the pitching to be a lot better. I still think the Red Sox need a big bat, but with the luxury tax situation as it is, it doesn't seem very likely they'll get one. It just doesn't make sense to have so many redundant players. You cannot have a roster with Shaw, Sandoval and a platoon DH on it. Then you have to send Shaw down and be stuck with Holt and Sandoval taking turns being terrible defensively at 3B. So you're saying basically the Sox have no choice but to downgrade in a massive way at DH from Ortiz to Sandoval, who doesn't hit well enough to DH and can't play a passable 3b. That's really horrendous. I see your point about trying to shape the roster but injuries can happen or maybe they keep 12 pitchers with Abad taking that 12th spot. Again don't know if that's worth it. There's also the possibility that Dombrowski uses Shaw as trade bait to upgrade the bullpen as what's out there in the FA market given their constraints isn't exactly appetizing.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 4, 2016 20:47:42 GMT -5
It just doesn't make sense to have so many redundant players. You cannot have a roster with Shaw, Sandoval and a platoon DH on it. Then you have to send Shaw down and be stuck with Holt and Sandoval taking turns being terrible defensively at 3B. So you're saying basically the Sox have no choice but to downgrade in a massive way at DH from Ortiz to Sandoval, who doesn't hit well enough to DH and can't play a passable 3b. That's really horrendous. I see your point about trying to shape the roster but injuries can happen or maybe they keep 12 pitchers with Abad taking that 12th spot. Again don't know if that's worth it. There's also the possibility that Dombrowski uses Shaw as trade bait to upgrade the bullpen as what's out there in the FA market given their constraints isn't exactly appetizing. I see Shaw as the least risky 3B, with more upside than Sandoval. I don't think it's wise to add any more platoon players unless we're willing to dump Sandoval now and I don't think it's going to happen. Shaw, even if his hitting doesn't return has a higher floor than Holt and Sandoval because he's quite good defensively. I'd only trade Shaw if we could get a decent RH 3B.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 4, 2016 21:12:28 GMT -5
Bob NightengaleVerified account @bnightengale The #Nats are actually trying to trade for Chris Sale AND Andrew McCutchen and believe they have the prospects to pull off both trades.
Buster Olney @buster_ESPN 17m17 minutes ago Initial asking price on Encarnacion in range of $125m over five years... but the sheer volume in 1B-DH-Of market working against him
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 4, 2016 21:22:49 GMT -5
Sam Dykstra @samdykstramilb Yoan Moncada accepts the @baseballamerica Player of the Year award here at the @wintermeetings banquet. #RedSox John Manuel @johnmanuelba 1h1 hour ago Fort Washington, MD John Manuel Retweeted Sam Dykstra Good job on your speech, Yoan!
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 4, 2016 21:42:15 GMT -5
Bob NightengaleVerified account @bnightengale The #Nats are actually trying to trade for Chris Sale AND Andrew McCutchen and believe they have the prospects to pull off both trades. They have Giolito, Lopez, and Robles, plus some interesting depth. That'd be something.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 4, 2016 21:47:20 GMT -5
I am in favor of the cheap options like an Alvarez or Tomas. IMO the platoon and revolving of players thru DH is the best way to go next yr. With the make up of the current roster and prospects coming up that might be ready to contribute the Sox should be fine. Heck they might even be able to convince Pedey to take a partial day off and DH once in a while. The Sox could get lucky with Tomas. He is still young and at 25 had a good power season in his second yr out of Cuba. The players from Cuba have shown in the past a tendency to need some time to be productive in MLB. So maybe they get lucky on a low cost guy who could excel in Fenway, in a better lineup and some maturation with the help of Chili. Price doesn't seem to bad for a guy entering his prime and just hit 31 hr. They have? Not Abreu. Not Puig. Not Cespedes. Who am I forgetting? Again, Tomas has a terrible approach. He was third among qualified hitters in swing percentage, and second in swinging strike percentage. And yes, 31 home runs, but he wasn't a very productive offensive player even with those. He already plays in a very hitter friendly part so I'm not sure Fenway helps him much. Chili Davis? I mean, if Davis can fix Tomas then it doesn't even matter who we sign because at that point he can fix anyone. AND, the contract: :$6M next year, $10m in '18, player options for $15.5m in '19 and $17m in '20. In a market that's flooded with 1B/DH types. If they're going to commit to that much money and that many years they might as well just go all the way and sign Encarnacion.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 4, 2016 22:10:01 GMT -5
Based on what they haven't done and what's been written, I just don't think they're going to go spend $10+ million on anyone
I think a more likely option at this point is to work with what they have and make a move in June/July if it looks necessary
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 4, 2016 23:14:54 GMT -5
I just got into the CBA. I am tired of the small market vs big market concept that is still being used in the MLB. So if we lose a player with QO and over 50million we get a pick back on market size? What about based on the year we had?
They also don't address multiple signings w/QO. I think the international deal had us in mind. Maybe I into to much conspiracies. 5 million. So why wont a player just go to Miami or LA. I guess You still have to develop trust with these kids in there early ages. Like Papi or Pedro have to mingle a little. Atleast I got this off my back. I might be wrong but it s how I feel.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 4, 2016 23:27:00 GMT -5
Bob NightengaleVerified account @bnightengale The #Nats are actually trying to trade for Chris Sale AND Andrew McCutchen and believe they have the prospects to pull off both trades. They have Giolito, Lopez, and Robles, plus some interesting depth. That'd be something. It would take those 3 and 3-5 more prospects unless Pirates just dump McCutchen and I don't see that happening. If they did that they would have the worst farm system in majors.
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