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2016-2017 Red Sox Offseason (Non-Manager) Discussion
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Post by larrycook on Dec 5, 2016 0:21:35 GMT -5
They have Giolito, Lopez, and Robles, plus some interesting depth. That'd be something. It would take those 3 and 3-5 more prospects unless Pirates just dump McCutchen and I don't see that happening. If they did that they would have the worst farm system in majors. I can not for the life of me figure out why Pittsburgh is trying to dump mccutchen? I know 2016 was a clunker for him, but unless you think this is the new permanent norm for him, which I do not believe for a minute, you have to keep the face of your franchise. However since they do appear to be trying to move him, they need to bleed someone deeply for your franchises cornerstone.
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Post by taftreign on Dec 5, 2016 1:30:53 GMT -5
A cheaper alternative to share time at DH appears to be the likely bet. It serves multiple purposes. First, a short term deal continues flexibility of the roster in regards to prospects, future free agents and/or future trades. Secondly, a lower salary allows Boston to fit in under the luxury tax threshold and avoid the ever increasing tax penalty and lower draft pick penalties for signing future free agents. Thirdly, the funds not spent on a more expensive option can be more wisely invested into extensions for a number of the young stars. I personally expect to hear news on this front closer to spring training. By doing so the front office can start to gain certainty on future outlays to make more informed decisions on outside signings.
I understand losing Ortiz begs one to desire a big bat replacement but you have to bet on continued progression of output from the young players and an even more balanced offense. The truth is the Sandoval, Ramirez and Price contracts continue to limit a big addition this season. This is more so true if a run at players like Otani or Machado are on the teams radar. A lesser offensive addition sits well with me as I'd rather see an addition to solidify the pitching staff. The offense can overcome the loss of Ortiz's numbers if not his leadership. But the staff had it's struggles at times and could be tightened up.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 5, 2016 2:18:18 GMT -5
It would take those 3 and 3-5 more prospects unless Pirates just dump McCutchen and I don't see that happening. If they did that they would have the worst farm system in majors. I can not for the life of me figure out why Pittsburgh is trying to dump mccutchen? I know 2016 was a clunker for him, but unless you think this is the new permanent norm for him, which I do not believe for a minute, you have to keep the face of your franchise. However since they do appear to be trying to move him, they need to bleed someone deeply for your franchises cornerstone. In my opinion I don't think they can compete for a couple more years, so McCutchen is not needed. His trade can speed up rebuild. Very weak free agent class helps his trade value even coming off that horrible year. I also bet they worry if we're already into McCutchens decline years. Last year he wasn't just a hair over league average with his bat, but was also dreadful in the field. I know players have down years, Price just had one, but McCutchen was really really bad last year. Negative bwar of -.7 last year.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 5, 2016 3:38:41 GMT -5
The dumbest thing one can do is judge a player's defensive skills by a highlight reel (or play) - remember Gary Matthews, Jr.? I've seen no evidence that Benintendi can play CF in the majors. He was minus in LF last year (small sample). His throwing was awful, both weak and misdirected; and it didn't take long for word to get around, you even had Cleveland taking advantage of his arm with Roberto Perez. Roberto Perez. If the Red Sox move Bradley (something I would actively pursue), Betts is your CF; if you look at the Statcast data over the last two years, there's a lot of evidence that he's a better OF than Bradley already You haven't seen him play there, either. As for the playoffs, he was wearing a knee brace. One of the dumbest things a person can do is think that throwing is all arm strength. Since I've never seen an outfielder make a jumping throw, I'm going to guess that they find using their legs and body helpful. Scouting history says he's likely to be an average to slightly-above defensive CF. There were more than a few people on here talking about Mookie's terrible arm (which I called ridiculous after his nearly picking off Gardner going for two on a wall-ball), but he seems to have figured out RF OK. He even got an assist or two last year. I'm inclined to trust scouts' judgment on this one, over a 30-game preview at a new position interrupted with a serious leg injury.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 5, 2016 6:28:45 GMT -5
Buster Olney @buster_ESPN 1h1 hour ago As note here in Sunday morning's column: The Royals are listening to offers for Cain, Hosmer, Moustakas, etc.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 5, 2016 10:15:44 GMT -5
It would take those 3 and 3-5 more prospects unless Pirates just dump McCutchen and I don't see that happening. If they did that they would have the worst farm system in majors. I can not for the life of me figure out why Pittsburgh is trying to dump mccutchen? I know 2016 was a clunker for him, but unless you think this is the new permanent norm for him, which I do not believe for a minute, you have to keep the face of your franchise. However since they do appear to be trying to move him, they need to bleed someone deeply for your franchises cornerstone. With two other outfield studs and Meadows on the horizon, if they don't think they can afford to keep him past his 2018 club option, this may be their best chance to get the most return possible for him. Shopping him and asking for the moon doesn't preclude them from keeping him around either, and talks now could lay the groundwork for a future deal. We forget that trades don't happen overnight. It's not like one GM calls the other one night out of the blue, offers some deal, and the guy on the other end just says yes. Negotiations often take weeks or months depending on when you want to peg the "start" of a negotiation of a trade to be.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 5, 2016 10:20:53 GMT -5
More likely Alvarez. If they're not spending the money on Beltran or Holliday they're not spending the money on Nap or especially Encarnacion. My money is on no one. I'd rather have Chris Young, Hanley and position players who need a day off play at DH. People are already scraping the bottom of the barrel and we already have Shaw, Sandoval, Hanley and Young who can play 1B or DH. There is no need to add a marginal upgrade at DH who isn't a sure thing. Will Beltran and Holiday gone I am starting to worry than Dombrowski will not be able to sit still and I worry about a trade where significant assets go out the door. Or maybe I'm just reading the data on his performance history too closely.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 5, 2016 10:35:19 GMT -5
I can not for the life of me figure out why Pittsburgh is trying to dump mccutchen? I know 2016 was a clunker for him, but unless you think this is the new permanent norm for him, which I do not believe for a minute, you have to keep the face of your franchise. However since they do appear to be trying to move him, they need to bleed someone deeply for your franchises cornerstone. With two other outfield studs and Meadows on the horizon, if they don't think they can afford to keep him past his 2018 club option, this may be their best chance to get the most return possible for him. Shopping him and asking for the moon doesn't preclude them from keeping him around either, and talks now could lay the groundwork for a future deal. We forget that trades don't happen overnight. It's not like one GM calls the other one night out of the blue, offers some deal, and the guy on the other end just says yes. Negotiations often take weeks or months depending on when you want to peg the "start" of a negotiation of a trade to be. While it is the exception, didn't the Josh Donaldson trade happen basically overnight.
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Post by jmei on Dec 5, 2016 11:09:30 GMT -5
Buster Olney @buster_ESPN 1h1 hour ago As note here in Sunday morning's column: The Royals are listening to offers for Cain, Hosmer, Moustakas, etc. I wouldn't mind buying low on Eric Hosmer. One year of team control left (Arb4) and coming off a bad year, so he cost too much in a trade, and he fills their need for a 1B/DH. With that said, while he has upside, he's also got a fair amount of downside. He's alternated between being replacement-level-or worse (by fWAR) and borderline All-Star the last five years.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 5, 2016 11:24:36 GMT -5
And to my point above, this is what I'm talking about, in Alex Speier's article this a.m.: From a financial standpoint, the Red Sox could fit Sale (in the middle of a five-year, $32.5 million deal), Abreu (projected to receive $12 million through salary arbitration by MLBTradeRumors.com), and Jones (entering year two of a three-year, $8 million deal) and stay under the luxury tax threshold by trading away the salary of Buchholz.www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/12/05/passing-beltran-holliday-matter-priorities-for-red-sox/gYAeWsAwbCGJxCwrJwJzuM/story.htmlOf course, that move would gut the farm plus cost you JBJ, Moncada(Assuming Benintendi stays if JBJ goes) and Kopech at minimum in a Sale deal alone (plus likely someone else at the A ball level - maybe Dalbec, maybe someone acquired in the Buchholz deal). Add in Jones and you're likely looking at Doubon and likely another A/AA guy who looks like a player, given the premium on quality relievers now.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Dec 5, 2016 11:49:47 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind buying low on Eric Hosmer. One year of team control left (Arb4) and coming off a bad year, so he cost too much in a trade, and he fills their need for a 1B/DH. With that said, while he has upside, he's also got a fair amount of downside. He's alternated between being replacement-level-or worse (by fWAR) and borderline All-Star the last five years. I'd also be interested in a Hosmer trade, if only for the parallels to Ortiz. Young slugger who plays on a team that emphasizes contact at the expense of power. Hosmer still has the size and strength and set a new career high in HR's (even though they came with decreased production elsewhere).
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 5, 2016 14:58:42 GMT -5
How low would EE's price need to go before it would make sense for the Sox to get him? I see the length of the contract being the issue here, so if he were willing to take something like 3/57-63M, would it be a wise investment for the Sox?
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 5, 2016 15:07:13 GMT -5
How low would EE's price need to go before it would make sense for the Sox to get him? I see the length of the contract being the issue here, so if he were willing to take something like 3/57-63M, would it be a wise investment for the Sox? Doubt it's just the length of the contract. The Red Sox are trying to get under the luxury tax limit. I doubt they want to spend much more than $10 million for a DH. Nor do they want to surrender a draft pick. Encarnacion to the Red Sox isn't happening.
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Post by telluricrook on Dec 6, 2016 9:26:26 GMT -5
Pablo Sandoval is the starting 3rd baseman baby
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Post by ryantoworkman on Dec 6, 2016 10:47:43 GMT -5
With the reliever spot filled at basically zero financial impact for 2017, the team could be set, and be quite fine. I don't however think DDo is done.
It's been documented they had $6M of salary space before the Thornburg trade, so they are at $5M now. To do anything substantial requires additional salary be moved, and with Shaw now gone, that won't be Sandoval. It has to be Buchholz. The question becomes, is he traded for the LH 1B/DH hitter they need, or do they go after the rotation upgrade offered by Sale?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 6, 2016 11:06:01 GMT -5
If we give Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe for Sale would be awful.
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Post by jmei on Dec 6, 2016 11:24:43 GMT -5
I moved all the Thornburg posts to that thread.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 6, 2016 11:25:24 GMT -5
If we give Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe for Sale would be awful. I would add another name. Chi is looking for four solid prospects. Think Dalbec, although JBJ's name has been bandied about. As much as that would hurt, my larger concern is the Detroit fire sale. And over here you have the former Detroit GM and his deep knowledge of his binkies their players.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Dec 6, 2016 12:05:45 GMT -5
If we give Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe for Sale would be awful. By all reports the Nats are working on finalizing a Sale deal, so we may not need to fret this much longer. Starting to think it might be sign Alvarez to platoon at DH with Young, while Young also gets some LF time. They would be a really good team with just that simple add. 6 starters deep on the Boston roster, Kimbrel, Smith, Thornburg, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, Ross, Scott and Abad should deliver a solid pen. The Alvarez / Young DH platoon should deliver a good portion of what Papi provided in 2016, and the kids will be one more year mutured. By midyear, they should know what they have in Moncada, and have a clearer view on Devers, Johnson and Owens. Hopefully that positions the Sox as "sellers of surplus" at the July sell fest, and allows them to restock some high skilled ml talent. I can see the year playing out as follows: Starters for the year - Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Buchholz, ERod, with Wright, Johnson, Owens and Elias as depth Bullpen in April - Kimbrel, Thornburg, Kelly, Wright, Hembree, Ross, Abad, with Barnes (options?), Scott, Ramirez, and a rehabbing Smith as depth. Catcher - Leon, with Vazquez as backup and Swihart getting reps in AAA 1B - Hanley 2B - Pedroia SS - Bogaerts 3B - Sandoval LF - Benintendi CF - Bradley RF - Betts DH - Alvarez / Young (OF utility) Utility - Holt Utility - Hernandez With Moncada a likely mid year arrival, and Devers a potential late year arrival, there might be some really crazy things that happen by this time next year. No matter if nothing happens, the above is reason for excitement!
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2016 12:47:36 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 7m7 minutes ago Sources: #RedSox remain strongly in mix for #WhiteSox’s Sale, along with #Nationals.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2016 12:50:13 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Multiple sources now saying that #RedSox have built momentum toward a deal with #WhiteSox for Sale.
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 6, 2016 12:52:12 GMT -5
OMG freak out
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Post by semperfisox on Dec 6, 2016 12:52:18 GMT -5
Ugh now I will be on my phone for updates 24/7
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Post by burythehammer on Dec 6, 2016 12:53:07 GMT -5
Based on that reported Nationals offer, I'd say Rodriguez, Kopech and Devers plus pieces. Which you do in a heartbeat, obviously.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 6, 2016 12:53:59 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 7m7 minutes ago Sources: #RedSox remain strongly in mix for #WhiteSox’s Sale, along with #Nationals. Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Multiple sources now saying that #RedSox have built momentum toward a deal with #WhiteSox for Sale. Maybe I'm crazy, but this feels like the White Sox dropping info to their sources to put pressure on the Nationals. EDIT: Also someday I will do multi-quote correctly.
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