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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 14:41:34 GMT -5
UMass Sullinger sucks... let him go... lol
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2017 14:51:38 GMT -5
UMass Sullinger sucks... let him go... lol He had 15.4 win shares in 4 seasons as the #21 pick. Sucks? That production has to be in the 90 to 95% range for a #21 pick. That was a home run type pick. You can hate the player, but you can't just overlook the production. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 24, 2017 14:54:40 GMT -5
[/quote]You can hate the player, but you can't just overlook the production. [/quote]
That just seems like a missed oppurtuntity
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 14:55:56 GMT -5
UMass Sullinger sucks... let him go... lol He had 15.4 win shares in 4 seasons as the #21 pick. Sucks? That production has to be in the 90 to 95% range for a #21 pick. That was a home run type pick. You can hate the player, but you can't just overlook the production. Sure he gave u good "value" for the slot... but you still want him back on the team now - he blows in that sense |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2017 14:56:41 GMT -5
He had more win shares in 4 years than Bradley has in 7 years.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2017 14:59:16 GMT -5
He had 15.4 win shares in 4 seasons as the #21 pick. Sucks? That production has to be in the 90 to 95% range for a #21 pick. That was a home run type pick. You can hate the player, but you can't just overlook the production. Sure he gave u good "value" for the slot... but you still want him back on the team now - he blows in that sense Well that was the point of my post, not that I was saying to bring him back. You don't just take international guys and pass on guys like Rondo and Sullinger. If you grade that pick it has to be an A/B+ |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 18:32:57 GMT -5
He had more win shares in 4 years than Bradley has in 7 years. Which should really just devalue win shares as a valuable statistic |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 18:33:37 GMT -5
Sure he gave u good "value" for the slot... but you still want him back on the team now - he blows in that sense Well that was the point of my post, not that I was saying to bring him back. You don't just take international guys and pass on guys like Rondo and Sullinger. If you grade that pick it has to be an A/B+ I just like giving you a hard time about Sullinger; I agreed with your point |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 24, 2017 18:35:56 GMT -5
I think with the Laker's trade for Lopez plus Ball and other acquisitions, it is unlikely that the 2018 Laker pick will be utilized. Russell, off last year, was not a big loss. I don't have a feeling on the Nets but any assumption that we will have 2 picks next year in the top 5 is pie in the sky. To make a big jump beyond being a 'scrappy team', we are in desperate need of a Hayward type. As it stands now the Lakers still suck bad. Lopez was part of the Nets last year... he's not someone to worry about. Lopez is a good player averaging 21 points and nearly 2 blocks per on 30 minutes. He is 28. The Nets had a much better record with him in the lineup. Lonzo will make Lopez and others better. If George gets there, watch out. Russell may have been the Laker's leading scorer but he clanged at 40%. Should he improve along with defensive center Allen, the Nets may not be patsies. Stay tuned but I don't think we have any lock on a top 5 pick next year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 18:41:23 GMT -5
Ok so I do have to give some credit to Nick Castles for this but I really think he might be on to something here. Basically, 3 months ago Zach Lowe wrote an article about Paul George and the Pacers future. He had a line in there toward the end about sources saying George wanting to play with Hayward. www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18959003/zach-lowe-paul-george-future-indiana-pacersAt the time there was more emphasis on the fact that he says "hometown boy" to describe Hayward because of Indiana and Butler. But... Now there's a new rumor about George coming to Boston if they sign Hayward... again Hayward and George connection thru the media. The day after the Celtics traded down, which put them in a better spot to get a max guy due to lower salary of third rd pick, George goes public about him not signing with Indiana which drives down his price and forces the Pacers to make a move at a devalued price. Crowder, Bradley, the Clippers first and the 2018 Celtics pick for George after they sign Hayward. Thomas, Smart, Hayward, George and Horford... That team can beat Cleveland... |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 18:44:42 GMT -5
As it stands now the Lakers still suck bad. Lopez was part of the Nets last year... he's not someone to worry about. Lopez is a good player averaging 21 points and nearly 2 blocks per on 30 minutes. He is 28. The Nets had a much better record with him in the lineup. Lonzo will make Lopez and others better. If George gets there, watch out. Russell may have been the Laker's leading scorer but he clanged at 40%. Should he improve along with defensive center Allen, the Nets may not be patsies. Stay tuned but I don't think we have any lock on a top 5 pick next year. Lopez played 75 games last year so that's just really not true... I do agree with you that it's no lock but it's not a pipe dream either. Lopez basically wasn't hurt last year for the first time and the Nets had the worst record in the NBA. But if you think the Lopez is a great player then him leaving the Nets should have you doing backflips. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2017 20:27:04 GMT -5
He had more win shares in 4 years than Bradley has in 7 years. Which should really just devalue win shares as a valuable statistic Not really all advanced stats don't value Bradley, not just win shares. He's a very unique player. Maybe the best on ball defender in league, but not a great defender overall. A good shooter, that doesn't give you much else. Stats like PER, win shares, WARP, and real plus minus all say the same thing. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 20:45:43 GMT -5
Which should really just devalue win shares as a valuable statistic Not really all advanced stats don't value Bradley, not just win shares. He's a very unique player. Maybe the best on ball defender in league, but not a great defender overall. A good shooter, that doesn't give you much else. Stats like PER, win shares, WARP, and real plus minus all say the same thing. In no world is Sullinger a more valuable player than Bradley. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 20:52:52 GMT -5
On my other post about George and Hayward; I was at a party so I couldn't finish it in full.
It seems like Danny's dream plan right now would be to sign Hayward for a 3 plus 1 deal. Hayward most likely wants to sign that kind of deal to hit free agency at 30 with 10 years service so he can maximize his earnings. Assuming that's true that basically negates all of Utahs financial advantage as their deal can only be like 5m more Bostons. That likes up with Horfords contract and a George 3 year extension here that we hear about.
Go all in short term with a Horford, George and Hayward core and let Smart, Brown, Tatum plus the future Nets and Lakers kids plus Zizic, Yabusele and whomever else develop then hand it over...
Best of both worlds...
Will it happen? Probably not, but it's possible and not inconceivable.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 24, 2017 21:03:14 GMT -5
Lopez is a good player averaging 21 points and nearly 2 blocks per on 30 minutes. He is 28. The Nets had a much better record with him in the lineup. Lonzo will make Lopez and others better. If George gets there, watch out. Russell may have been the Laker's leading scorer but he clanged at 40%. Should he improve along with defensive center Allen, the Nets may not be patsies. Stay tuned but I don't think we have any lock on a top 5 pick next year. Lopez played 75 games last year so that's just really not true... I do agree with you that it's no lock but it's not a pipe dream either. Lopez basically wasn't hurt last year for the first time and the Nets had the worst record in the NBA. But if you think the Lopez is a great player then him leaving the Nets should have you doing backflips. I didn't say Lopez was "great" but rather a good player and in his prime. He will help L.A. along with Lonzo. Lopez has had some injury issues in the past so perhaps your assessment of him is colored by that fact. As to the Nets, another poster stated that Russell (a former #1),led the Lakers in scoring and implied, at the least, that he was a comer. If so, the trade may help both teams. I hope, obviously, that we get a pick in the top 5 next year but I think the Laker pick is tenuous. That might be a good one to trade. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2017 21:06:38 GMT -5
Lopez played 75 games last year so that's just really not true... I do agree with you that it's no lock but it's not a pipe dream either. Lopez basically wasn't hurt last year for the first time and the Nets had the worst record in the NBA. But if you think the Lopez is a great player then him leaving the Nets should have you doing backflips. I didn't say Lopez was "great" but rather a good player and in his prime. He will help L.A. along with Lonzo. Another poster stated that Russell led the Lakers in scoring and implied, at the least, that he was a comer. The trade may help both teams. I hope, obviously, that we get a pick in the top 5 next year but I think the Laker pick is tenuous. That might be a good one to trade. I was disputing your contention that the Nets had a much better record with him in the line up. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 25, 2017 1:06:44 GMT -5
Ok so I do have to give some credit to Nick Castles for this but I really think he might be on to something here. Basically, 3 months ago Zach Lowe wrote an article about Paul George and the Pacers future. He had a line in there toward the end about sources saying George wanting to play with Hayward. www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18959003/zach-lowe-paul-george-future-indiana-pacersAt the time there was more emphasis on the fact that he says "hometown boy" to describe Hayward because of Indiana and Butler. But... Now there's a new rumor about George coming to Boston if they sign Hayward... again Hayward and George connection thru the media. The day after the Celtics traded down, which put them in a better spot to get a max guy due to lower salary of third rd pick, George goes public about him not signing with Indiana which drives down his price and forces the Pacers to make a move at a devalued price. Crowder, Bradley, the Clippers first and the 2018 Celtics pick for George after they sign Hayward. Thomas, Smart, Hayward, George and Horford... That team can beat Cleveland... Well if George came here, he or Hayward would basically be playing the 2. The Power Forward position would be the position up in the air (or the Center position). I'm not sure who would start there. Maybe Tatum? Kelly Olynik couldn't come back and potentially start in this lineup. They would have to renounce his contract to save up for Hayward. It'd just be so much easier if they just target Blake Griffin. He would fill the 4 and then you would let Tatum and Brown battle it out for the 3 position. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2017 6:31:21 GMT -5
George has defended 4s in the past (btw I saw a quote post draft where Stevens referred to the positions that way so I'm going to get off my high horse about that).
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2017 6:37:09 GMT -5
If you don't already, you should follow Ryan Bernardoni (@dangercart). He does a great job with salary cap math (I've never used it but he a roster builder tool that let's you make deals and see the ramifications).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 25, 2017 6:46:55 GMT -5
George has defended 4s in the past (btw I saw a quote post draft where Stevens referred to the positions that way so I'm going to get off my high horse about that). I'm kind of surprised by that but I just can't see him being a great defender at that position full-time as a starter. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Im sure the Celtics would love to have that problem of "figuring it out" anways. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 25, 2017 7:24:35 GMT -5
George has defended 4s in the past (btw I saw a quote post draft where Stevens referred to the positions that way so I'm going to get off my high horse about that). I'm kind of surprised by that but I just can't see him being a great defender at that position full-time as a starter. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Im sure the Celtics would love to have that problem of "figuring it out" anways. I agree No way do I see either being great defenders against a james or Thompson? I think sometimes against certain teams you could get away with a small lineup like that, but against the cav's with james and Thompson it would seem too small. Especially with Thomas at the point. They would get beat up on the boards and be physically worn down. Then how does brown get time to play and develop? That would definitely move Tatum to a 4 to get minutes. Would you want both Hayward and George? Seem like would be duplicate players and definitely take time away from brown for sure and maybe Tatum. I give the edge to Tatum over brown because Tatum can score. It will be interesting to see what surprises Danny has in store for us come end of next week. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 25, 2017 7:37:53 GMT -5
I wonder if you could make a trade with the spurs and get Aldridge? Rumor's have the spurs looking at moving him. He would seem to fit with Brad's system. What to trade though?
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 25, 2017 7:43:08 GMT -5
Lots of good reading here in regards to the C's, the assets and the future. IMO both the Lakers and the Nets will not be very competitive next yr as currently constructed, meaning a good chance the C's get top 5 picks. With luck 2 but at least 1. They absolutely need to sign Hayward. My feelings are that this is about 80% a done deal. DO Not trade either Brown or Tatum!! In regards to all the 1st round picks the C's have. Not sure if this thought has been floated but it is an obvious one. An option for Danny will be to trade some for future picks as time goes on. Obviously this will only be dictated by the success of the team moving forward but if you have a team that is playing great, has plenty of youth and limited room for more prospects then it just improves the future. So trading some to improve the team now is the first priority but the C's are so overloaded with picks some should be pushed down the road to insure the future. The C's are a top 5 team right now and with the addition of Hayward and Tatum will be top 3. That along with all the assets Danny still has at his disposal gives me reason to be very optimistic. This is a great article for anyone who hasn't seen it, thanks to whom it was that originally posted it. bleacherreport.com/articles/2711366-built-for-basketball-jayson-tatum-was-born-and-raised-to-be-an-nba-star |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2017 8:35:56 GMT -5
George is either the best or second best defender of LeBron in basketball. Basketball is becoming positionless and the Celtics clearly want to go that way. Why are you worried about guarding Thompson? He's terrible and Horford can do that... Durant played what people want to call the 5 a bunch only it's not the 5... he was just the biggest guy on the court.
While we are on this subject of fours... can someone please even list me the real dangerous traditional 4s that we are afraid of?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2017 8:37:44 GMT -5
I wonder if you could make a trade with the spurs and get Aldridge? Rumor's have the spurs looking at moving him. He would seem to fit with Brad's system. What to trade though? I think he's proven to be soft in his time with the Spurs. If you can't play for Pop I want nothing to do with you. At least not at his money. |
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