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Post by ctfisher on Jun 25, 2017 8:46:24 GMT -5
I wonder if you could make a trade with the spurs and get Aldridge? Rumor's have the spurs looking at moving him. He would seem to fit with Brad's system. What to trade though? Spurs were looking to trade into the top-10 of the draft I heard. I'm also 95% sure I saw Greg poppovich at a pizza place in Boston last Tuesday night, so maybe they talked about it? If it happens though, it won't be the first domino to fall. I do like Aldridge though and his contract wouldn't be tough to swallow - I think he's only got 2 years left. I could see the Spurs loving crowder and maybe one of our younger guards, but I don't know if you can make the salaries add up cause we really don't have any bad contracts that we need to get rid of at this stage and Aldridge is making a combined $43m over the next two years assuming he picks up his player option |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2017 9:20:56 GMT -5
I wonder if you could make a trade with the spurs and get Aldridge? Rumor's have the spurs looking at moving him. He would seem to fit with Brad's system. What to trade though? Spurs were looking to trade into the top-10 of the draft I heard. I'm also 95% sure I saw Greg poppovich at a pizza place in Boston last Tuesday night, so maybe they talked about it? If it happens though, it won't be the first domino to fall. I do like Aldridge though and his contract wouldn't be tough to swallow - I think he's only got 2 years left. I could see the Spurs loving crowder and maybe one of our younger guards, but I don't know if you can make the salaries add up cause we really don't have any bad contracts that we need to get rid of at this stage and Aldridge is making a combined $43m over the next two years assuming he picks up his player option It's been pretty widely assumed he's opting out... maybe it's because he doesn't like the Spurs but if he gets traded and played well then he's opting out anyways. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2017 9:24:28 GMT -5
One part of Tatums game that I think is really going to pop in the pros and right now seems to be listed as a weakness in some people's eyes is his passing. He's a very good passer, much better than given credit for and he can play as a point forward type of player. He fits exactly what the Celtics want in a player as far as being able to basically do anything. He's also going to be a much better defender than people think.
Draft graders seem to be thinking he's this empty scorer but this kid can basically do everything. He may be the best rebounder on the team from the start.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 25, 2017 12:07:44 GMT -5
Not really all advanced stats don't value Bradley, not just win shares. He's a very unique player. Maybe the best on ball defender in league, but not a great defender overall. A good shooter, that doesn't give you much else. Stats like PER, win shares, WARP, and real plus minus all say the same thing. In no world is Sullinger a more valuable player than Bradley. Not right now, but he was for his 4 years on Celtics. The numbers don't lie. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2017 13:04:34 GMT -5
In no world is Sullinger a more valuable player than Bradley. Not right now, but he was for his 4 years on Celtics. The numbers don't lie. I don't put a lot of stock into advanced stats in basketball. According to win shares other than his rookie year and last seasons lost year all of sullingers seasons were more valuable than Avery last year. That's just complete junk. I don't care what the numbers say. When they say things like that they are meaningless. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 25, 2017 13:27:02 GMT -5
George is either the best or second best defender of LeBron in basketball. Basketball is becoming positionless and the Celtics clearly want to go that way. Why are you worried about guarding Thompson? He's terrible and Horford can do that... Durant played what people want to call the 5 a bunch only it's not the 5... he was just the biggest guy on the court. While we are on this subject of fours... can someone please even list me the real dangerous traditional 4s that we are afraid of? I used Thompson as an example. The word maybe total size against the cav's. K Love is a good rebounder. I understand the trend in the game. That's why a tatum is a excellent pick because he does most everything on offense and can guard multiple positions. Just seems like we would be smaller and we got outrebounded by a lot last year. Realize there will be some tradeoff because with George and Hayward we will score more. Scoring more is now the name of the game. So it may work. The other question will be how well Thomas George and Hayward share the ball and still have horford get touches. Not impossible but a new chemistry dynamic. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 25, 2017 14:26:04 GMT -5
I will be watching and very interested to see how much brown develops offensively. Hayward, assuming he signs, tatum, and the guy from smu all are much better on offense than Brown. Will his defense be that much better that he gets playing time ahead of those 3 guys. I know Brad values defense very highly.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 25, 2017 14:51:49 GMT -5
Not right now, but he was for his 4 years on Celtics. The numbers don't lie. I don't put a lot of stock into advanced stats in basketball. According to win shares other than his rookie year and last seasons lost year all of sullingers seasons were more valuable than Avery last year. That's just complete junk. I don't care what the numbers say. When they say things like that they are meaningless. You're letting the hate you have for Sullinger cloud your judgement. It's not crazy, Sullinger impacted the game in more ways than Bradley does. He filled the stats sheets. Points, rebounds, assists and played good D. He had a huge effect on the team. Look at how our rebounding and D numbers went down without him. We went from a top defensive team to middle of the pack. Literally all we did was replace Sullinger with Horford. Our offense improved, but we missed Sullinger controlling the paint. The guy was an elite rebounder. It's the same thing with a player like KO. Most people like to downplay the effect he has on the team. The numbers tell a different story over 4 seasons. Meaningless that's funny. They are legit. The thing you don't understand is that Bradley isn't an overall elite defender. His size limits him. Great on ball defender, but not overall. He is also very limited offensively. He doesn't make players around him better. He doesn't get to the line. You understand Bradley has never had a league average PER right? People a lot smarter than you have spent decades getting advanced stats to match the outcomes of teams. The stats match the results. You don't see bums at the top of PER, ws/48, WARP, or real plus minus rankings. Who was our best player last year? Thomas and advanced stats clearly shows just that. Bradley is what he is, a very useful player. That has some very big warts in his game. I really like Bradley, but that's the reason I find it funny when people predict he'll get 20 million or more in free agency. He's not that type of player. Any team that gives him that contract will be very disappointed. At one point he was very underrated, at this point he is overrated. He made an all defensive team and everyone just thinks he a great defender overall. Its just not true. He's a SG that excells at guarding PGs. He's not the overall defender Smart is. His size and small build being the reason. He can't switch off on players like a Smart or Tony Allen can. Players can score on him in the paint. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2017 15:19:07 GMT -5
This isn't about Bradley, I've been all over Bradley and his short comings. I got crap for saying exactly what you just said during the year so let's not say I don't understand Bradley. But if you want to tell me Bradley isn't even a league average player because PER says so then I really don't know what to say...
And yes, those stats always list the top players at the top; they wouldn't make them if they didn't. That doesn't mean they can accurately measure every player and their contributions. A lot of factors led to the Celtics defensive drop not just Sullinger leaving. One of the biggest ones was Crowder taking an absolutely major step back defensively.
If Sullinger was half the player you claim him to be he would have gotten a half way decent contract offer last off season. It was the biggest cap room off-season in basketball history and he got basically no interest. That tells me a lot more than a win share stat.
He's a great rebounder I'll give him that.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2017 18:42:27 GMT -5
I will be watching and very interested to see how much brown develops offensively. Hayward, assuming he signs, tatum, and the guy from smu all are much better on offense than Brown. Will his defense be that much better that he gets playing time ahead of those 3 guys. I know Brad values defense very highly. Me too but I'm very encouraged. Toward the end of the year he made big strides I feel. When he drove to the hoop he took contact and had nice body control and seemed to finish a lot better. His three point percentage was over 37% from February 1 on and the shot looked smooth. We saw some flashes of a nice baseline fade away. Hopefully his hesitation will be gone and he will just be aggressive because the ability is clear. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2017 18:42:58 GMT -5
I cannot wait for summer league to start... so dumb but I'm chomping at the bit already...
Free agency too
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 26, 2017 1:09:55 GMT -5
This isn't about Bradley, I've been all over Bradley and his short comings. I got crap for saying exactly what you just said during the year so let's not say I don't understand Bradley. But if you want to tell me Bradley isn't even a league average player because PER says so then I really don't know what to say... And yes, those stats always list the top players at the top; they wouldn't make them if they didn't. That doesn't mean they can accurately measure every player and their contributions. A lot of factors led to the Celtics defensive drop not just Sullinger leaving. One of the biggest ones was Crowder taking an absolutely major step back defensively. If Sullinger was half the player you claim him to be he would have gotten a half way decent contract offer last off season. It was the biggest cap room off-season in basketball history and he got basically no interest. That tells me a lot more than a win share stat. He's a great rebounder I'll give him that. PER measures counting stats like points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and the efficiency in which you get them. So by that Bradley is below average, has been his whole career. It doesn't take into account his defensive impact. Overall I do think advanced stats slightly undervalues Bradley D. On ball D is incredibly hard to track. I don't think Bradley is a below average player, but his impact is also limited. The match up really matters. Tony allen and Smart type guys impact every game, because they can guard a large group of players. Bradley just can't do that. I wouldn't say they can measure every player with 100% accuracy. They do come very close though. If you wanted to say they might slightly undervalue Bradley I can get behind that. He's a unique player. I just don't buy they aren't even close when it comes to Bradley and his value. For me it really matches what I see watching games. Sullinger could just impact games in more ways than Bradley can. How did Crowder take a major step back? I'm sorry but the single biggest difference in our D was Sullinger. Followed by replacing Turner with Brown. Crowder was great last year. You took a team that was a very bad rebounding team and replaced Sullinger with Horford. Going from an elite rebounder to a below average one. Sullinger gave you extra possessions on offense and stopped the other team from getting extra possessions. You can't play good D when getting out rebounded by a ton every game. We all know why Sullinger didn't get a huge contract. First I think he took a 1 year deal because he wanted a massive offer, which he didn't receive. Reports at the time said he turned down more money per year on a long-term deal for the right fit on the right team. The reason for no massive offer were his conditioning issues and his attitude problem, not his talent. He could only play limited minutes before he would get winded. That's not a good thing and limits the team. At the same time it doesn't mean he wasn't highly effective when he played. His skill level was very high, he could do a lot of things. He really upsets me because he seems to be wasting his great talents. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 26, 2017 1:13:15 GMT -5
Summer league could be the best ever if Brown plays, heck might be even without him. Tatum, Ojeleye, Zizic, Yabu and Jackson. Nevermind our two other second round picks.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 26, 2017 1:27:20 GMT -5
Summer league could be the best ever if Brown plays, heck might be even without him. Tatum, Ojeleye, Zizic, Yabu and Jackson. Nevermind our two other second round picks. Yabu isn't under contract and Zizic has visa issues at the moment. I'm not really sure if these players will play in the summer league. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 26, 2017 1:49:00 GMT -5
Well Yabu played last year while not under contract.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 26, 2017 1:52:38 GMT -5
Yabu was still under team control though. There is doubts from the Celtics on whether either one or both of these player will play, especially with this new lowered cap number brought from the league a few days ago.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 26, 2017 6:32:24 GMT -5
Yabu is eligible to play but I think it's been reported that he won't bc of the foot surgery.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 26, 2017 6:45:09 GMT -5
Yabu was still under team control though. There is doubts from the Celtics on whether either one or both of these player will play, especially with this new lowered cap number brought from the league a few days ago. Contract status has nothing to do with summer league and both are still under team control but Yabu won't be playing I'm sure. Zizic will if he can make it over. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 26, 2017 7:04:48 GMT -5
For as long as I can remember we've heard of players in baseball and basketball having "visa issues" for extended periods. Excuse my ignorance, but what are the kinds of issues that hold players weeks or months on end?
What can be done to remedy this?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 26, 2017 7:06:12 GMT -5
For as long as I can remember we've heard players in baseball and basketball having "visa issues" for extended periods. Excuse my ignorance, but what are the kinds of issues that hold players weeks or months on end? The inefficient federal (not that State is better) government at work. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 27, 2017 6:58:36 GMT -5
Was just watching some highlights of Luca Doncic... damn that kid looks smooth and playing for Real Madrid too... damn...
Free Agency is going to be exciting for a lot of reasons... the Nets obviously will try to get better but the Lakers, if they don't get George via trade really shouldn't be. Even though they have no draft reason to Tank they have 2018 free agency reasons not to add salary.
So basically, if the Celtics can add Hayward and trade for George it really helps them with the Lakers selection. Having two top 5 picks in next years draft would be epic.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 27, 2017 7:36:21 GMT -5
Was just watching some highlights of Luca Doncic... damn that kid looks smooth and playing for Real Madrid too... damn... Free Agency is going to be exciting for a lot of reasons... the Nets obviously will try to get better but the Lakers, if they don't get George via trade really shouldn't be. Even though they have no draft reason to Tank they have 2018 free agency reasons not to add salary. So basically, if the Celtics can add Hayward and trade for George it really helps them with the Lakers selection. Having two top 5 picks in next years draft would be epic. Well I guess the Nets could spend and get some role players, but I don't see them improving out of the three worst teams in the NBA. The Lakers pick is a valid point and another reason along with the 1000 other reasons why they should trade for George after signing a free agent like Griffin or Hayward. So far the great reasons why the Celtics should trade for George I got is- 1) Better chance of resigning him 2) Adding to the Celtics chances of landing a top 5 pick with the Lakers pick 3) Making next year's team a championship contender 4) Adding a top 10 talent in the league 5)Getting something of value for a expiring contract like a Avery Bradley I should try not to get my hopes up too high though. I'll be really disappointed if the Celtics just add Griffin or Hayward, even though that would be still really great for the Celtics. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 27, 2017 9:36:25 GMT -5
For as long as I can remember we've heard players in baseball and basketball having "visa issues" for extended periods. Excuse my ignorance, but what are the kinds of issues that hold players weeks or months on end? The inefficient federal (not that State is better) government at work. I've never had occasion to procure a visa but thought the process was unduly problematic. I wondered why teams and players could not find a way to streamline matters. I found this article that, while brief, gives some insight. www.google.com/amp/www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/02/whats-with-the-visa-hold-ups-for-pitchers-cueto-casilla/amp/ |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 27, 2017 9:52:29 GMT -5
Was just watching some highlights of Luca Doncic... damn that kid looks smooth and playing for Real Madrid too... damn... Free Agency is going to be exciting for a lot of reasons... the Nets obviously will try to get better but the Lakers, if they don't get George via trade really shouldn't be. Even though they have no draft reason to Tank they have 2018 free agency reasons not to add salary. So basically, if the Celtics can add Hayward and trade for George it really helps them with the Lakers selection. Having two top 5 picks in next years draft would be epic. Well I guess the Nets could spend and get some role players, but I don't see them improving out of the three worst teams in the NBA. The Lakers pick is a valid point and another reason along with the 1000 other reasons why they should trade for George after signing a free agent like Griffin or Hayward. So far the great reasons why the Celtics should trade for George I got is- 1) Better chance of resigning him 2) Adding to the Celtics chances of landing a top 5 pick with the Lakers pick 3) Making next year's team a championship contender 4) Adding a top 10 talent in the league 5)Getting something of value for a expiring contract like a Avery Bradley I should try not to get my hopes up too high though. I'll be really disappointed if the Celtics just add Griffin or Hayward, even though that would be still really great for the Celtics. Hayward (please) & Tatum plus Zizic will really help from a talent standpoint...even if the record is not markedly better as they get acclimated. The past two years it seems that we were overachievers...maxing out based on effort and coaching....but falling short on talent...(although Red Auerbach famously said "hustle is a talent"). I tend to be a pessimist probably to protect against letdowns as you alluded to. If Hayward happens and we can trade for George with an extension, it will be a mighty fine Christmas. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 27, 2017 10:06:23 GMT -5
I'm going to go against the grain here a little bit. I don't want to trade for George with an extension. First, it's kind of unrealistic to expect him to sign an extension as a condition of the trade - there is no financial benefit for him to do so other than security and I really hope he's past the security stage of earnings. Secondly, the cost would likely go up to acquire him. I would gamble on him resigning if you can get him for Bradley, Crowder plus say the Celtics and Clippers picks next year.
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