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Post by jmei on Sept 7, 2017 17:17:01 GMT -5
Hayward is a really good defender, and Crowder regressed on that end last year. Not sure Crowder is meaningfully better defensively.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 8, 2017 8:36:35 GMT -5
Hayward being a good defender and better than Crowder is a welcome surprise to me. He must have good lateral quickness. With so many new players and wondering how their personalities and play will mesh, Brad's abilities, which I think extend far beyond Xs and Os, may be THE most important element in the team's success.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 8, 2017 12:43:29 GMT -5
Hayward is a good defender. From what I've seen I think Crowder is better by a good margin. Granted I'm not a Jazz fan so what I've seen is limited compared to Crowder. Crowder adds a toughness and passion on D that effects the teams D like Smart does. He enjoys playing D, something you can't say about a lot of players. The moment we got him we were a much better defensive team.
As to him regressing, the whole team did. They couldn't rebound, so they played small ball. Crowder played a lot of PF and even some center. He wasn't great at that, but the team outscored the other team most nights. Which was the why they did it.
The advanced stats are all over the place. Some like ESPN real plus minus show Crowder as a much better player. Crowder was 13th in defensive RPM for SFs, while Hayward was 40th. Basketball Refrence defensive box score plus minus shows Crowder as better .7, 1.3 and .2 the last 3 years, Hayward was .1, -.1 and 0.0 the last 3 years. Now Hayward had a higher defensive win share last year. For me though that's the result of him playing on a better defensive team that has the best defensive player in the league in Gobbert. In 2016 when we could rebound and played great team D, Crowder put up a higher defensive win share than Hayward ever has in his career. Crowder did that with Sullinger and Johnson manning the paint, compared to Hayward who had Gobbert and Favors.
The problem with the NBA and defensive advanced stats is that who you play with matters. Bradleys DRPM tanked the minute Thomas joined the team. I think Crowder was great given the hole we had at center. We had almost no rim protection and couldn't rebound. Not a good way to be a good defensive team. At the same time Hayward had the exact opposite. So we'll see how Hayward does in Boston with no Gobbert to anchor the teams D.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 8, 2017 17:10:18 GMT -5
Great stuff UMass!
It sounds like we'll trend toward better offense, better rebounding and perhaps less defensive chops. What an interesting season presents. Can it start tomorrow?
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 13, 2017 7:09:53 GMT -5
Did anyone know that Theis won Defensive Player of the Year award last year? Obviously, the league he played in matters but I didn't realize that... good sign
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Post by texs31 on Sept 13, 2017 7:33:10 GMT -5
I guess he had a pretty good game against Spain yesterday (the Gasol brothers played).
Also, Bogut should be signing next week and the C's are reportedly 1 of 4 teams interested.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 13, 2017 12:23:45 GMT -5
I guess he had a pretty good game against Spain yesterday (the Gasol brothers played). Also, Bogut should be signing next week and the C's are reportedly 1 of 4 teams interested. I was wondering what is taking so long for him to sign. The Celtics can't offer him more than the veteran minimum exception, so only promising to start a lot of games might be the reason he comes to Boston. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 18, 2017 11:50:08 GMT -5
Kyrie is an OG. The one thing missing there was a Delonte reference, but dude is already a Boston legend in my eyes. Now Hayward, your move to trash talk Kevin Love. Say something about how KAT is the first good big man Minnesota had since KG. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 19, 2017 4:52:19 GMT -5
Bogut signs with the Lakers.
Seriously, this guy has rejected the Celtics twice now. This time he chose a rebuilding Lakers team over the Celtics.
Screw this guy. The Celtics will have to go elsewhere to find a rebounder for their last roster spot.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 19, 2017 12:14:38 GMT -5
I have to say I think it's great he went to Lakers. We only have one spot and I didn't want to spend a full season just waiting till Boguts gets injured. Let's move quick and get Thomas Robinson.
Last year Boguts it made sense for Boguts to pick Cavs. By Bogut picking Lakers for 1 year at Vet minimum, it kinda makes you wonder how much Celtics wanted him. First they signed Baynes over him. Second they play a ton of small ball. So Danny probably was honest, you can get a spot but no guarantee of minutes. Lakers likely offered the minutes he was looking for.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 19, 2017 12:54:14 GMT -5
Agreed.
1. Both teams only had min to offer so it wasn't money
2. LAL have Lopez and Zubac so it's not PT
3. Boston is clearly the better team so it's not chance to win
Unless he really HATED the idea of Boston as a location, it absolutely sounds like Boston's interest wasn't what it was made out to be.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,841
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Post by steveofbradenton on Sept 19, 2017 14:45:42 GMT -5
Agreed. 1. Both teams only had min to offer so it wasn't money 2. LAL have Lopez and Zubac so it's not PT 3. Boston is clearly the better team so it's not chance to win Unless he really HATED the idea of Boston as a location, it absolutely sounds like Boston's interest wasn't what it was made out to be. He wanted to play for a former coach in Luke Walton |
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Post by texs31 on Sept 19, 2017 15:19:57 GMT -5
If you meant "sit on the bench next to a former coach in Luke Walton" then . . . understood.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 20, 2017 6:50:09 GMT -5
Kyrie is an OG. The one thing missing there was a Delonte reference, but dude is already a Boston legend in my eyes. Now Hayward, your move to trash talk Kevin Love. Say something about how KAT is the first good big man Minnesota had since KG. I didn't see that entire segment but he was on the show for an hour. There are some good write ups about what he said. He's really being open (hopefully honest) about a lot of things regarding his game. He basically trashed the Cavs coaching and system for stifling his game and not allowing him to be a true point guard. It seems his main reason for leaving is the chance to be a real point guard and s player who can work with good coaches to grow his game. If he's being honest then the concerns about him having to play in a motion offense and be more than an isolation scorer will be for naught. If he takes to the coaching and does those things and works harder on the defensive end (will be a big part of Stevens coaching) then this guy is going to take a big step forward and that's saying something because he's already great. This is what Danny is banking on. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 20, 2017 20:24:14 GMT -5
I didn't see that entire segment but he was on the show for an hour. There are some good write ups about what he said. He's really being open (hopefully honest) about a lot of things regarding his game. He basically trashed the Cavs coaching and system for stifling his game and not allowing him to be a true point guard. It seems his main reason for leaving is the chance to be a real point guard and s player who can work with good coaches to grow his game. If he's being honest then the concerns about him having to play in a motion offense and be more than an isolation scorer will be for naught. If he takes to the coaching and does those things and works harder on the defensive end (will be a big part of Stevens coaching) then this guy is going to take a big step forward and that's saying something because he's already great. This is what Danny is banking on. Can't blame him there, Ty Lue is a great motivator and he keeps his teams cool and running but his offensive sets are not great. Not Vinny Del Negro bad, but pretty simple and unimaginative. The Cavs are also awful on defense and I hope to god they play that small line-up with Crowder at the 4 and Love at the 5 as much as possible. That would be an all timer terrible defensive team. In short, we can take these dudes and guys are right to start the trash talk early. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 22, 2017 15:58:42 GMT -5
It seems weird with training camp so close there is no noise about the Celtics adding a 15th player. Celtics Blog brought up Okafor again. We just don't have the trade chips. Yabu and Ojeleye doesn't make sense. At the same time it sure does feel like something is up. Otherwise what is he waiting for?
Even Gerald Green just got signed.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 24, 2017 8:36:33 GMT -5
Melo to OKC and the Knicks got backs guy at the one position they have no need for. Maybe Kanter will have trade value for them. Knicks, Bulls, Hawks and Nets are all going to blow.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 24, 2017 14:04:39 GMT -5
I just don't get the Melo trade. The best asset they got was the bulls 2nd round pick next year. How do you do that? That's with him waiving his trade kicker. At this point Kanter and McDermott have almost no value. Heck it's probably negative combined. The Knicks are a joke. They couldn't even get a first round pick while taking back a bad contract.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Sept 24, 2017 18:49:53 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking about how unlikely the Lakers pick is to materialize next year but I’m considering a different possibility now. Many of the teams who have got worse are in the Eastern conference, they might steal wins with each other while LA has to complete against more stacked teams.
It would be nice to know we are adding another piece after seeing this team (hopefully) take another step forward next year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 24, 2017 21:10:40 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking about how unlikely the Lakers pick is to materialize next year but I’m considering a different possibility now. Many of the teams who have got worse are in the Eastern conference, they might steal wins with each other while LA has to complete against more stacked teams. It would be nice to know we are adding another piece after seeing this team (hopefully) take another step forward next year. I still see the Lakers being a bottom 5 team. They're really young and play in the hardest conference in basketball. I still think the Celtics get a top 5 pick out of the Lakers this year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 25, 2017 6:24:30 GMT -5
The Lakers are a wild card. They could blow but they could also be pretty competent.
The argument for them is they have a lot of named young talent (Ball, Ingram, Randle and Zubac) plus Kuzma looked great in the summer league and they have some named Veterans in Caldwell-Pope, Lopez, Brewer, Deng and Clarkson. There is a lot of name recognition there.
The argument against is defensively they were god awful last year and even tho KCP is a very good defensive player the rest of the team still is terrible and likely worse down low with Lopez there. They also can't shoot.
Ball - looks good and is legit at what he does. He's the wild card that makes them possibly competent. I just don't know he can do it year one with what's around him. It's possible tho.
KCP - can't shoot - is talented and was a good get but he's not a good fit best to Ball.
Ingram - he was so bad last year and is still so skinny - I love him as I'm a Duke fan but he doesn't seem ready. Also, he can't shoot - so if you can't shoot and are too skinny weak to take it to the rim consistently or play great defense then what are you going to do as a wing?
Clarkson - not a very good player but can score inconsistently. He's a wild card tho and someone that Ball could turn into a good shooter. He's probably best fit with Ball.
Deng - old washed up - will either take time from young guys or sit in bench.
Lopez - good veteran but had always been on under achieving teams and gets injured a lot. Might be real dangerous scorer tho with Ball... still a sieve defensively.
Kuzma - will have a role in the league but he's a rookie and don't read into summer league. May spend most of his time in the G league getting big minutes and probably should.
Randle - he seems to be what he is but maybe he will take a step forward this year. He's a role player and how good of one will depend on if he accepts it or not.
Zubac - interesting young guy... how much can he and Lopez play together?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2017 12:35:26 GMT -5
The Lakers play in the same division as Suns and Kings. So they have some teams to beat up on. Nevermind they will play the East teams.
I'm assuming Boguts picked the Lakers because they offered the most playing time. If he stays healthy he can really help them on D.
The key is the rookies and Ingram. All 3 of the rookies were good shooters in College, as was Ingram. I've always worried about Ingram's body, but never his skill level. Also Lopez was a great 3 point shooter for a center last year. You certainly worry about rookies, but Kuzma and Hart are seasoned College players and Ball is elite.
Don't sleep on Josh Hart, my pick for Brogdon type player before the draft. He is a 3 and D player. Before they got KCP I thought he would start.
If Brad Stevens was the Lakers coach I could see around 40 wins. I just don't know how good Walton is. Will he play small ball? Playing KCP, Hart and Ball together looks like a great pairing for todays NBA. Will he use a player like Deng at PF like Miami did? He is still a very good defender.
Ball is a player that with his passing and ability to make guys better that will make all the difference. He can create and get players easy shots. He could make a player like Randle look really good.
Based on talent the Lakers are clearly better than the Bulls, Nets, Hawks and Knicks. They are most likely a lot better than the Kings, Suns, Magic, Mavs and Pacers. So for us to get a top 5 pick it's going to take a lot of luck. For me it's all about the Kings and that 2019 pick.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 25, 2017 13:48:16 GMT -5
I wouldn't assume the Suns will be a pushover this year. They won't make the playoffs or sniff them in that conference but they will be tough, if Bledsoe is healthy. They were a 27win team with him in the lineup last year and Booker is a monster in the making. Averaged 22 points as a 20 year old last year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2017 18:33:41 GMT -5
That's why I listed the Suns in the most likely list. They have that upside. At the same time they have already lost Knight for the year and Williams for half or more of the year. Then add in no PJ Tucker and they have lost 3 players that helped them a good amount last year. They have added Jackson, I just don't know what to expect from him. With no Williams the front court is Chandler, Len, Chriss and Bender. Good upside, but it could be bad inside if those young guys don't step up. A very interesting team.
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Post by voiceofreason on Sept 26, 2017 5:54:31 GMT -5
Hard to believe that after being the #1 seed in the East, yes by default, that the C's totally revamped their lineup. Although it was rough to watch IMO that team really didnt have the talent to really compete for a championship. This one might not either but in the long run they will be better and closer to getting there. It will be interesting to see how this team gels and develops together as the season goes on. Maybe with some luck and fast development of the young guys they can be better than most of us think. A lot depends on contributions from Tatum and Brown but a slimmed down Smart could be the key to how good they are this year.
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