SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2017 Trade Deadline Thread (Red Sox discussion)
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on Jul 19, 2017 8:13:37 GMT -5
That is a little confusing to me as Otani hasn't proven anything in the MLB meanwhile Darvish has shown he is a stud. I guess from the standpoint that Otani won't break the bank in the same manner as Darvish but he's no sure thing. Otani is the better/taller and harder throwing version of Darvish. He'll be better than Darvish very very soon. Better based off of what though? Numbers in Japan? By saying that he is better than Darvish you are saying Otani is already a top 10-20 pitcher in the world which I cannot agree with until I see it happen. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2017 8:18:28 GMT -5
Otani is the better/taller and harder throwing version of Darvish. He'll be better than Darvish very very soon. Being better than Darvish is a lot to ask of any pitcher. Otani has the talent to do so, but I'd never reasonably predict anyone without major league experience to be a frontline starter with that kind of surety. (Also, Darvish is taller). Didn't know he was taller. Would like to see them side by side. There is no doubt in my mind he can make the leap and be that guy. He's the best prospect in the entire world imo. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2017 8:20:50 GMT -5
Otani is the better/taller and harder throwing version of Darvish. He'll be better than Darvish very very soon. Better based off of what though? Numbers in Japan? By saying that he is better than Darvish you are saying Otani is already a top 10-20 pitcher in the world which I cannot agree with until I see it happen. It's just my opinion, he's striking out everyone he faces in Japan. His K rates are mind boggling. I'm pretty sure that he'll be a top 10 pitcher really soon in America. |
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on Jul 19, 2017 8:23:03 GMT -5
Being better than Darvish is a lot to ask of any pitcher. Otani has the talent to do so, but I'd never reasonably predict anyone without major league experience to be a frontline starter with that kind of surety. (Also, Darvish is taller). Didn't know he was taller. Would like to see them side by side. There is no doubt in my mind he can make the leap and be that guy. He's the best prospect in the entire world imo. From what I have heard about Otani I will not disagree that he is the one of the best if not the best prospect in the world but even the best prospects don't always pan out the way scouts think they will. Not saying he won't reach his potential but he wouldn't be the first elite prospect to not reach their full potential. |
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Jul 19, 2017 8:25:52 GMT -5
I would also have him as the #1 prospect in baseball. Even with that in mind I would never, ever comfortably predict any prospect to be better than Yu Darvish is right now. Sale, Kershaw, Scherzer, and Kluber are four best in baseball, and Darvish is clearly one of the 10 or so pitchers in the next group down.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 19, 2017 8:31:58 GMT -5
That trade really hinges on Kahnle to be great. Either he turned a corner or is just having a career year. Huge spike in strikeouts while cutting his walk rate by a mile. If you needed to include a top prospect for him, not sure it's a great trade. It will certainly help them this year, but what is Kahnle next year?
I have a feeling the White Sox were getting close to a deal with Red Sox for Frazier and Robertson. Went back to Yankees and they gave up a top prospect to get those two plus Kahnle. They help there team and stop the Red Sox from getting exactly what they needed.
Not really sure why so many people love this trade for the Yankees. If the Red Sox had made that trade everyone would hate it. I hope the Yankees go out and trade for a starter now. Trade those prospects!
|
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jul 19, 2017 8:39:52 GMT -5
Relievers are so volatile. I don't know how anyone can say the Yankees made a great trade here. All they really did was make a better value trade than the Kimbrel deal for the Sox. The Sox arguably traded for less and gave up more with that deal. The Yankees got a couple of throw ins with salaries attached on top of the Kahnle. I think the concept of relievers being exceptionally high risk and inconsistent is becoming more passe. Sure they have high stress/high effort and that may make them prone to breakdowns or shortened careers, but bullpen arms have been getting better, more dominant and more resilient performance wise. Betances, Chapman, Warren, Robertson etc. have stayed the course. Kahnle looks like a dominant stud. Shreve is a force. Severino is a coming beast, Sabbathia is re-tooled. Give them one more very good starter and, with the third ranked offense, they will be a playoff juggernaut. |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,533
|
Post by nomar on Jul 19, 2017 8:42:24 GMT -5
I'd love for the Yankees to trade for Sonny Gray. He's always been overrated and now that he can't even pitch in Oakland, I don't really see why anyone would want him. He'd get crushed in Yankee Stadium.
|
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 19, 2017 8:42:38 GMT -5
Not sure if Gammo is reporting this or it's a prediction. Peter Gammons @pgammo Mets will give Red Spx Astrubal Cabera. SH, 3B-2B, 9 HR, hits LHP 7:34 AM · Jul 19, 2017 from Brookhaven, GA I have been convinved that Gammo's been making it up for about six years now. I mentioned Cabrerra a few weeks ago. No Fraizer's pop but if he plays to his averages it's an improvement, and he should cost little. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2017 8:45:28 GMT -5
Relievers are so volatile. I don't know how anyone can say the Yankees made a great trade here. All they really did was make a better value trade than the Kimbrel deal for the Sox. The Sox arguably traded for less and gave up more with that deal. The Yankees got a couple of throw ins with salaries attached on top of the Kahnle. I think the concept of relievers being exceptionally high risk and inconsistent is becoming more passe. Sure they have high stress/high effort and that may make them prone to breakdowns or shortened careers, but bullpen arms have been getting better, more dominant and more resilient performance wise. Betances, Chapman, Warren, Robertson etc. have stayed the course. Kahnle looks like a dominant stud. Shreve is a force. Severino is a coming beast, Sabbathia is re-tooled. Give them one more very good starter and, with the third ranked offense, they will be a playoff juggernaut. I think you're way too high on the Yankees personally. I don't know where this "one more very good starter" is going to come from either. That's the hardest thing to find in baseball. Ask the Red Sox on relievers not being high risk. They'll tell you that's completely false. |
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jul 19, 2017 8:46:53 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 19, 2017 8:47:56 GMT -5
Being better than Darvish is a lot to ask of any pitcher. Otani has the talent to do so, but I'd never reasonably predict anyone without major league experience to be a frontline starter with that kind of surety. (Also, Darvish is taller). Didn't know he was taller. Would like to see them side by side. There is no doubt in my mind he can make the leap and be that guy. He's the best prospect in the entire world imo. Otani 6-3 www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=otani-000shoDarvish 6-5 www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/darviyu01.shtmlI am still waiting for a cogent explanation of why Otani's team would post hime and, if they do, why he would pick Boston over LAD, TX, NYY, SF, CHI. |
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 19, 2017 8:50:34 GMT -5
I think the concept of relievers being exceptionally high risk and inconsistent is becoming more passe. Sure they have high stress/high effort and that may make them prone to breakdowns or shortened careers, but bullpen arms have been getting better, more dominant and more resilient performance wise. Betances, Chapman, Warren, Robertson etc. have stayed the course. Kahnle looks like a dominant stud. Shreve is a force. Severino is a coming beast, Sabbathia is re-tooled. Give them one more very good starter and, with the third ranked offense, they will be a playoff juggernaut. I think you're way too high on the Yankees personally. I don't know where this "one more very good starter" is going to come from either. That's the hardest thing to find in baseball. Ask the Red Sox on relievers not being high risk. They'll tell you that's completely false. Sonny Gray. |
|
|
|
Post by bookiemetts on Jul 19, 2017 8:53:53 GMT -5
I think this is the answer to both of your questions:  |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2017 8:55:27 GMT -5
I think you're way too high on the Yankees personally. I don't know where this "one more very good starter" is going to come from either. That's the hardest thing to find in baseball. Ask the Red Sox on relievers not being high risk. They'll tell you that's completely false. Sonny Gray. Sonny Gray isn't all that good though. He's okay, I guess. Not worth the price of admission. I still don't think the Yankees are better than the Red Sox, Astros, Rays, or Indians right now or in the foreseeable future, which is why I don't get this trade. |
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Jul 19, 2017 9:05:14 GMT -5
If Kahnle going forward is the same pitcher he has been in 2017, this is a very good trade for the Yankees.
|
|
|
|
Post by rismith on Jul 19, 2017 9:30:51 GMT -5
Rutherford seems to be more name than production. I get that he is still young but only a year younger than Chavis and has a ways to go to reach what Chavis is doing. Chavis has easy power. If we can hold on to Devers and Chavis we might just have the power we have been searching for....I hope patience wins out.
|
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jul 19, 2017 9:33:27 GMT -5
Sonny Gray isn't all that good though. He's okay, I guess. Not worth the price of admission. I still don't think the Yankees are better than the Red Sox, Astros, Rays, or Indians right now or in the foreseeable future, which is why I don't get this trade. By MLB stats the Yankees are better in batting ( HRs, runs, slg.,Ops) and fielding, and a smidgen behind in pitching. They now have a better bullpen than we do. Hopefully Devers can come up in Sept and perform. I don't see any helpful 3B. To me Lowrie is a good utility player on a top team. |
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2017 9:40:29 GMT -5
Relievers are so volatile. I don't know how anyone can say the Yankees made a great trade here. All they really did was make a better value trade than the Kimbrel deal for the Sox. The Sox arguably traded for less and gave up more with that deal. The Yankees got a couple of throw ins with salaries attached on top of the Kahnle. I think the concept of relievers being exceptionally high risk and inconsistent is becoming more passe. Sure they have high stress/high effort and that may make them prone to breakdowns or shortened careers, but bullpen arms have been getting better, more dominant and more resilient performance wise. Betances, Chapman, Warren, Robertson etc. have stayed the course. Kahnle looks like a dominant stud. Shreve is a force. Severino is a coming beast, Sabbathia is re-tooled. Give them one more very good starter and, with the third ranked offense, they will be a playoff juggernaut. Carson Smith and Tyler Thornburg fit that category as well. |
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Jul 19, 2017 9:41:00 GMT -5
Rutherford seems to be more name than production. I get that he is still young but only a year younger than Chavis and has a ways to go to reach what Chavis is doing. Chavis has easy power. If we can hold on to Devers and Chavis we might just have the power we have been searching for....I hope patience wins out. Rutherford is 21 months younger than Chavis so much closer to two years than one. Rutherford is playing much better at A Ball than Chavis did in 2015, swings and misses a lot less, and is better defensively (though at a position further down the defensive spectrum). Rutherford is the better prospect, probably by a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 19, 2017 9:55:42 GMT -5
I think this is the answer to both of your questions: The money is capped because of his age, as is the posting fee. I believe he can only make $6M a year no matter who he signs with. |
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 19, 2017 10:02:01 GMT -5
Sonny Gray isn't all that good though. He's okay, I guess. Not worth the price of admission. I still don't think the Yankees are better than the Red Sox, Astros, Rays, or Indians right now or in the foreseeable future, which is why I don't get this trade. Tampa is 4-4 vs Boston this year NYY is 6-3 vs Boston head to head so far this year and just got better. |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,533
|
Post by nomar on Jul 19, 2017 10:05:17 GMT -5
Sonny Gray isn't all that good though. He's okay, I guess. Not worth the price of admission. I still don't think the Yankees are better than the Red Sox, Astros, Rays, or Indians right now or in the foreseeable future, which is why I don't get this trade. Tampa is 4-4 vs Boston this year NYY is 6-3 vs Boston head to head so far this year and just got better. That doesn't make Sonny Gray good enough to save their rotation. I wouldn't trust him to pitch well in that stadium. |
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Jul 19, 2017 10:08:18 GMT -5
Sonny Gray isn't all that good though. He's okay, I guess. Not worth the price of admission. I still don't think the Yankees are better than the Red Sox, Astros, Rays, or Indians right now or in the foreseeable future, which is why I don't get this trade. Tampa is 4-4 vs Boston this year NYY is 6-3 vs Boston head to head so far this year and just got better. And since head-to-head record over nine games definitively shows who the better team is, the Red Sox are obviously screwed. Come on. EDIT: And to the post you responded to: The Yankees are currently sitting in the wild card spot, 3.5 games out of first place, and have more money than 95% of the nations of the world. And you can't see why the Yankees are adding talent to win now? Also, come on. |
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 19, 2017 10:09:37 GMT -5
The NYYs have the prospects to get this done.
|
|
|
